Superman Video Game

[ProjectPat2280]

I think if a dev can make an urban setting work for Hulk, then they can do it for Superman. I mean Hulk is capable of some serious destruction.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think if a dev can make an urban setting work for Hulk, then they can do it for Superman. I mean Hulk is capable of some serious destruction.

I completely agree! I want to see Metropolis be converted to rubble over the course of boss fights with characters of comparable power to Superman.

 

[zenith16]

that would mean's Mongrel, Darkseid and DoomDays, for all out drag out fights and leech and few others that I have to think about. but it's doable.

and I still say high powered lasers an radiation for the thugs. The latter is a different issue though.

 

[Godzilla2014]

that would mean's Mongrel, Darkseid and DoomDays, for all out drag out fights and leech and few others that I have to think about. but it's doable.

and I still say high powered lasers an radiation for the thugs. The latter is a different issue though.

Interesting ideas. I definitely think that Superman's powers could present opportunities for things that we haven't seen before/don't see very often in video games.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think if a dev can make an urban setting work for Hulk, then they can do it for Superman. I mean Hulk is capable of some serious destruction.

How many people were killed in that game by Hulk? Too many, Superman doesn't kill.

 

[DrCosmic]

^True. There's a reason you can't knock thugs off of buildings in Arkham City. And honestly, aside from crushing some tanks, Hulk:UD wasn't *that* powerful. I'd expect much bigger feats from a Superman. Superman is capable of much more destruction than Hulk:UD

Interesting ideas. I definitely think that Superman's powers could present opportunities for things that we haven't seen before/don't see very often in video games.

They do. They present so many opportunities, that he needs singular and unique challenges. Take thugs with radiation lasers. As a player, if they pose any challenge, I'm going to fly away, then circle back at full flight speed a few times taking them out one by one without getting hit. There's have to be an army of them to be any real threat. Five or six have zero chance. There's a lot of stuff that works in comics because Superman forgets his powers that won't work in a video game where the point is to remember to use all your abilities to overcome the challenge.

that would mean's Mongrel, Darkseid and DoomDays, for all out drag out fights and leech and few others that I have to think about. but it's doable.

I sure hope the game gets made, just so people can be familiar with Superman's rogue's gallery.

Here's who I'd like to see as bosses in a Superman Game:

Lex Luthor and his Experiments:
Solomon Grundy (tutorial Level)
Luthor with a Mechsuit
Parasite
Metallo
Bizzarro
Zod and his Kryptonians:
Zod
Ursa
Faora
Jax-Ur
Non
Alien Invaders
Brainiac (in Riddler-like collectibles form)
Mongul
Maxima
Lobo
Doomsday

 

[ProjectPat2280]

How many people were killed in that game by Hulk? Too many, Superman doesn't kill.

So dont allow Supes to kill. Again, not difficult.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

But that takes away the fun of the Hulk game destroying buildings and clapping away civilians. To use an already overused phrase, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

I'm always going to think a lower power levelled Supes is the way to go for a sandbox game set in Metropolis.

 

[Nathan]

Not many would care about a low powered Superman. You can have Superman that punches Doomsday to the moon, yet you wouldn't be able to hit a thug's head off or crumble every building in Metropolis. And why? Because Superman wouldn't do it. Simple as that. Like every other superpowered hero, he pulls his punches.

 

[DrCosmic]

So...

1)Where does the fun come in, then? Since we're only getting to see how powerful we are in boss fights?
2) The Prototype Guy and the Infamous guy don't pull their punches. The only video game person who pulls their punches is Spider-Man, and there's no uber strength feats in the game to remind anyone who doesn't read comics that he is doing so.

If all you do is represent the comics, with no eye towards video games, you end up with something like Aquaman. VERY faithful representation of the character. No fun to play at all.

I'm always going to think a lower power levelled Supes is the way to go for a sandbox game set in Metropolis.

I agree, basically a Superman who is about Spider-Man's power level, maybe a little tougher or stronger. Someone who can't crumble buildings, basically, maybe make some dents or something.

 

[Nathan]

So...

1)Where does the fun come in, then? Since we're only getting to see how powerful we are in boss fights?

So, being able to kill people and turn buildings into dust, with no necessity whatsoever, is your idea of fun? Then you're not playing Superman. Simply because he'd be capable, doesn't mean you should be able to do it.

2) The Prototype Guy and the Infamous guy don't pull their punches. The only video game person who pulls their punches is Spider-Man, and there's no uber strength feats in the game to remind anyone who doesn't read comics that he is doing so.

Yeah, let's use a game as an example, where all you do is practically kill people in the most brutal ways.

Again, just because Superman is able to do everything, doesn't mean you should be able to do everything. Especially if that means to destroy buildings, kills thugs and civilians, just because you think it's "fun". If you do that, a Fail Screen should immediately pop up. If you just want to cause destruction, for the sake of destruction, you could always have a Bizarro mode like Superman Returns did.

Metropolis should practically be impervious, unless you are having a boss fight, in a section of a city, that's specially made to be fully taken apart. Or random areas, like a deserted area with Mountains, or cities that already have been partially destroyed and serve as nothing more than a backdrop for battles.

You guys really need to get off that "I'm playing Superman, the world should be my Toybox." mentality. If Superman wouldn't do it, neither should you. Again, you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

How would you have the game progress then? If it's in Metropolis and only gods and aliens can even do the slightest harm to you? Would you just have a series of boss battles?

 

[DrCosmic]

So, being able to kill people and turn buildings into dust, with no necessity whatsoever, is your idea of fun? Then you're not playing Superman. Simply because he'd be capable, doesn't mean you should be able to do it.

Yeah, let's use a game as an example, where all you do is practically kill people in the most brutal ways.

You made a statement "All super power hereoes do X". I proved your statement false. That's all. And now you're dodging my question: where does the fun come in? To answer yours: no, that is not my idea of fun, which is why I didn't suggest it.

Again, just because Superman is able to do everything, doesn't mean you should be able to do everything. Especially if that means to destroy buildings, kills thugs and civilians, just because you think it's "fun". If you do that, a Fail Screen should immediately pop up. If you just want to cause destruction, for the sake of destruction, you could always have a Bizarro mode like Superman Returns did.

Metropolis should practically be impervious, unless you are having a boss fight, in a section of a city, that's specially made to be fully taken apart. Or random areas, like a deserted area with Mountains, or cities that already have been partially destroyed and serve as nothing more than a backdrop for battles.

You guys really need to get off that "I'm playing Superman, the world should be my Toybox." mentality. If Superman wouldn't do it, neither should you. Again, you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Being powerful in video games (killing or otherwise) is fun. I'm not in the minority on that one, so lets not act like I'm all biased. It's also one of the main features of Superman, so it's not like its something you can leave out. You're the one who wants to turn the game into a job where we do things that Superman would do just because he would do them, whether they're fun or not. The game should be fun. Fun! Design it around making what Superman would do fun, instead of a burden and a bore. Even Superman doesn't enjoy living in a world made of cardboard... why should we make a player do so?

If you have a fun way of doing a Superman game without the toybox, hit me.

 

[Nathan]

Alright, with you two guys, I'm gonna do what Pat said, next topic.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I was genuinely asking how you would approach the game when the only people who can challenge Superman are all characters that are worthy of boss battle. I'm curious, because there would be no such thing as canon fodder or standard enemies. Just the high profile ones.

 

[DrCosmic]

How would you have the game progress then? If it's in Metropolis and only gods and aliens can even do the slightest harm to you? Would you just have a series of boss battles?

I don't know what Nathan would do, but I think a good standard for pacing would be "Shadow of the Colossus" which is the only game I know that is just a series of Boss Battles. It also happens to be award winning.

The 'content' between battles constist of traveling and actually finding the bad guys. In a more superhero setting, using your super senses might be an interesting way to do that. Along the way, or perhaps to help you find the next villain, there could be some sort of moral quandries that you have to decide. Do you kill this race before they kill off another race? Do you save your friend or a stranger? Do you empower your enemy in order to defeat a greater enemy? Answering those missions helps advance the story, puts you incontact with people who can tell you what to look for. Perhaps there are people in trouble that you have to dig out/catch/protect/take to safety, with associated puzzles along the way. I would still weight the game towards epic 10-30 minute boss battles, but there would be pacing, space, time to breathe and explore.

What do you think? Doable? Fun? Sueprmanish?

 

[TheBat812]

To me, you have to include Clark segments where you have 'puzzles'. Take advantage of all of Superman's abilities including his intelligence. Part of what makes Supes' experience is his having to hide as Clark. Have levels where you need to do detective work as Clark where you have to use powers without being seen, etc..

You guys are putting way too much stock in how powerful you can make him and making him able to fulfill all your fantasies as Superman. IMO, just give a great story that utilizes all of it. His strength in some missions (saving a plane or some crazy ****), his speed/agility/flight in others, his brain in others, etc. But let them serve the story first. There is definitely a need to make it feel authentically Superman. Seriously, just think of how Arkham City made you feel like Batman, then just imagine it was Superman instead. What does Supes do in STAS? It's mainly him figuring **** out, saving Lois, etc. Make the game about that, not about fighting some God every damn level. The game isn't about preventing yourself from dying. But from preventing injustices from going down.

 

[DrCosmic]

Alright, with you two guys, I'm gonna do what Pat said, next topic.

We've actually covered several topics (level design, fun factor, bosses, other enemies, pacing). I think once you realize/believe/accept that both I and Llama (correct me if I'm wrong) agree that Superman should be like Superman, you'll be able to see what we've actually been saying instead of viewing it through the lens of some weird attempt to prove Superman should be some sort of uber GTA fest.

But feel free to bring up yet another topic if you like.

Right, but Arkham Asylum was still infused with the same look of Gotham. It was very "gotham-esque". We weren't taking Batman and placing him in San Francisco. I think if they were to do a Superman game, they would try and stick Supes in a location that the avg gamer would recognize, which is why i say they'd stick with Metropolis.

Recognition is important, true, but not if it's not fun. And for Superman, specifically, as the perception is that he's boring, especially when fighting the crime of Metropolis, so taking him out of Metropolis, like the new MOS movie does for instance, might be the very best way to make an impression. In short, for Superman, specifically, doing something different could very well be more attractive to the average gamer, instead of giving them something they recognize as boring.

 

[DrCosmic]

You guys are putting way too much stock in how powerful you can make him and making him able to fulfill all your fantasies as Superman. IMO, just give a great story that utilizes all of it. His strength in some missions (saving a plane or some crazy ****), his speed/agility/flight in others, his brain in others, etc. But let them serve the story first. There is definitely a need to make it feel authentically Superman. Seriously, just think of how Arkham City made you feel like Batman, then just imagine it was Superman instead. What does Supes do in STAS? It's mainly him figuring **** out, saving Lois, etc. Make the game about that, not about fighting some God every damn level. The game isn't about preventing yourself from dying. But from preventing injustices from going down.

People like to see Superman powerful. That's why they youtube the "World of Cardboard" speech from JLU, and not the few non-fight episodes of STAS. Same reason why the big selling DTV movies are about him fighting "some god." That's what people like/want from Superman in general. It's what makes him unique among Superheroes. It's always been that way. The thinky stuff is the sideshow, the thing that makes Superman deep/relevant/etc, but without the powerhouse aspect, no one cares. They won't feel like Superman without it.

Also, not any story works with a video game. You can't do a Shindler's List video game, just cuz the story is good. It has to be a story that's fun to play.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I don't know what Nathan would do, but I think a good standard for pacing would be "Shadow of the Colossus" which is the only game I know that is just a series of Boss Battles. It also happens to be award winning.

The 'content' between battles constist of traveling and actually finding the bad guys. In a more superhero setting, using your super senses might be an interesting way to do that. Along the way, or perhaps to help you find the next villain, there could be some sort of moral quandries that you have to decide. Do you kill this race before they kill off another race? Do you save your friend or a stranger? Do you empower your enemy in order to defeat a greater enemy? Answering those missions helps advance the story, puts you incontact with people who can tell you what to look for. Perhaps there are people in trouble that you have to dig out/catch/protect/take to safety, with associated puzzles along the way. I would still weight the game towards epic 10-30 minute boss battles, but there would be pacing, space, time to breathe and explore.

What do you think? Doable? Fun? Sueprmanish?

I'm not really sure it could be done like Colossus because with Colossus there is a huge imbalance of power between Wander and the Colossus'. With a Silver/Bronze/Preboot Superman, when it comes to physical confrontations, the villain is usually the underdog. With maybe the exception of Doomsday.

However, I do quite like the aspect of moral decisions. That is very Superman. But there is still one thing that I consider very Superman. I still think there is the problem of there being no value in playing the game when the story is over. For example, in Superman: Shadow of Apokolips, there is a level where you must save a bus from falling off a bridge. But the way it is done, is easy, and it looks clunky and unnatural. I'd rather see a Superman where he needs to be careful whilst moving the bus, and whils he is moving it, he must take care of balancing it because of leverage, if he pulls to hard, the bus will break and he'll be unable to save it because he can't catch (literally) a bus, because it will break.

Also, I'd like him to have human enemies like Sam Lane and Luthor, and I'd especially like to see something similar to the first arc of action comics where, because there is no bullet that can kill Superman, they use a bullet train to decimate him, because the only way he can stop it, is to stay in the way when it hits a wall.


But, if we're moving on to other topics other than power levels, what powerset would people actually give him, and could his power be burned out? and he needs to charge up again at the sun?

 

[DrCosmic]

Well, if it's a video game, then you kinda have to make Bosses not the Underdog. They would have to be powered up, kinda like the bosses in Arkham Asylum, for that matter. And honestly, in every case, there's no reason (thematically or narratively) for Mongul, Darkseid, Doomsday, A fleet of Kryptonians, White Martians, Parasite, etc to be stronger/faster than Superman. I mean, if the villains are the underdogs, then you no longer have an action game, and I don't think that's what ppl are looking for from a superhero.

On power level, btw, a good compromise might be to start out at STAS levels and build to world shaking levels as you level up the character. Could be fun.

I do agree, that the lack of feeling of weight in S:SoA made the lifting puzzles feel very clunky. I think adding that weight and momentum factor would clear that up. Adding a balance challenge, especially when directly coming out of those physics, would definitely make the game more challenging and fun.

And of course there should be human enemies who create challenges, but they, aside from Luthor in a Mech Suit, don't make for very compelling bosses.

As for Powerset, I'd give him four powers that he switches in and out like Batman's gadgets (yes, I love AA, so... yeah):
Heat Vision - Laser cutting beam, upgrades: Super Optic Blast, welding tool,
Freeze Breath - charge up AoE hold, upgrades: windy blast, ability to suck in poisonous gasses
Shockwaves - Ground pound area stun, upgrades: thunderclap, super-scream, supersonic whistle
Superspeed - Bullet Time effect, upgrades: length of bullet time, shorten length of recharge/recovery of bullet time, tornado spin in place

Then give him flight on one or two shoulder buttons, one button to control speed, another button to handle stunts/sudden changes in direction/direction he's facing in flight/etc. Then another shoulder button for Super Senses Mode (a lot like detective mode), which would also function as a quick 'super senses reaction button' when there's a sudden alert, he can home in on it.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

As a last point on power levels, like you said, you'd have to make the villains stronger. But why do that, when you can use a lower levelled or even just younger Superman? This way you can have a Superman with standard level enemies (like Batman's thugs) and it's more of a challenge to beat villains.


Anyway, for powers I'd use:
Flight (activated with double tap of X/A controlled with both analogue sticks)
Super speed (hold L2/LT)
Super jump- to help get to a higher point for flight (hold then release X/A)
Heat vision (R1/RB) hold L1/LB to focus.
Microscopic vision (hold L1/LB)
X-Ray vision- must be switched out with heat vision ala Bats gadgets (R1/RB)

I'd also have a solar energy bar, depleting all of it means no access to super speed, vision powers, strength is reduced. And you need to charge up. Just to make it a little more difficult.

Invulnerability would level up as you progress through the game.

Level 1- Regular bullets do incredibly little damage, it would take tens to kill you. However explosions from missiles/tanks would do more damage, it would take about 10 to kill you. Kryptonite exposure causes health to drop dramatically and reduces solar energy. Energy attacks from Brainiac are severe and take about 6 to kill you. Super punches don't do as much damage, they take around the same as missiles.
Level 2- Damage decreased by 15% (energy by 10%), bullets do no damage unless exposed to Kryptonite. Kryptonite itself has less effect.
Level 3- Damage decreased by 20%. Only Brainiac, Doomsday and Zod can cause major damage that they're still a threat. Omega Beams take away huge swathes of health.

All other powers increase over time as well, more fine tuning for heat vision etc.

Combat with bosses I think should largely be handled with QTE's like the Factor 5 game.

 

[terry78]

Basically make Metropolis a living, breathing type of place except like in Arkham City, just have him use his super sense to locate various disasters happening around the city, and have some of them happen simultaneously so you have to make decisions. Though it may be possible to avert all of them, you have to be pretty ****ing impeccable in order to make it to each one.

 

[TheBat812]

Combat with bosses I think should largely be handled with QTE's like the Factor 5 game.

I think alot of the appeal of a Superman game would be the part where you actually get to control his power, so QTEs would destroy that and make it as boring as that newer DBZ game where it looks like the show, but isn't really a game. Maybe as a finishing move like in Arkham City, but I mean, one of the things I look forward to more than power is the agility of his flight. Power in a video game or movie is almost meaningless, it's the stakes behind it that give it meaning. But flight is a mechanic that can actually make you feel awesome in a way that only a superman game can. Hitting somebody hard and far, or carrying and throwing heavy **** is just not that rewarding or even that interesting/unique of a component to the game. Important in a way, for sure, but just not the most important to capturing Superman for me, nor would be the most fun/interesting power to implement.

In this light, like Terry said, the challenge of the game would actually be able to have to face the problems and decisions Superman would have to face. Have multiple problems he has to complete before they all go wrong. As the game progresses, ya, bring in a super powered guy that the mechanics have built you up to beat. We don't need super-powered villains during the whole game to keep you engaged and make you feel like Superman. I swear, if you set it up like an episode of STAS, it'll be a great game.

Start it off by doing everyday Superman things, build up the players' ability to control Supes' power. Something happens taht he needs to start investigating as Clark that he knows runs deeper. Then slowly build to reveal the big villain in a showdown. I think having a mix of regular day Supes where strength is not too important or even where you have to be careful of your power the way Supes actually does, contrasted with the end where you really need to 'let loose'. I mean, take advantage of the problems Supes has, like the way that Arkham City takes advantage of the problems Bats has. They're quite different issues, but both can be explored effectively in a game. Have the option to change from Supes to Clark any time, make him have to go to a press conference as Clark for LexCorp. Oh ****, looks like Lex is up to something: Gotta go investigate further, etc. Don't want to? Blow it off, have side missions that you can ignore if you want, but have an incentive system that rewards you for actually helping. Ugh. I just want this game to come out already, haha, it sounds like a great Supes experience to me, mixing together all the elements we've discussed. The possibilities are endless. But I do think taking it back to STAS like stories is the way to go, while obviously making them more complex and bringing in tons of cameos that fit into the world/plot like Arkham was able to. I don't see how that formula wouldn't work in the right hands.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I see what you're saying about having too many QTE's spoiling the gameplay. In honesty it was just to make the game more cinematic, like when Superman is dragging Doomsday through a building. To he honest, I agree. Too many would ruin it, especially when you want to brawl characters.