Sequels Superman Villain in Sequel

[JackBauer]

yes, no more Luther.

but keep Luthor.

 

[Trooper]

i want to see zod + braniac
zod dies
then braniac survives
releases doomsday

 

[Sub-Zero]

does anyone believe singer when he says that the next villain will be an alien?

 

[Ceb-Man]

Superman returns sequel...
Brainiac and Lex Luthor.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

does anyone believe singer when he says that the next villain will be an alien?

No.

 

[Steelsheen]

Superman returns sequel...
Brainiac and Lex Luthor.

yes

then come the 3rd film... Luthoriac

 

[Kroc1138]

I'm sorry the whole darwinist thing is just a rip off of Apocalypse's motive, which was never that interesting in the first place.

There you go. Have I even explained how it would work?? No! So where is all this nonsense coming from??

Besides it doesn't really make sense, Kem-L destroys Brainiac's planet for racial superority reasons and thenm suddenly Brainiac adopts the same ideology as his enemies, wouldn't he have an opposite reaction.

What?!?! Where the hell did I say that he adopts the same mentality?? Did you actually read my entire post?? Brainiac isn't a Racist like Kem-L.

Its a really stupid motive.

When you rationalize it like the way you did. You have absolutely no grasp on my concept. (understandalby, you can't read my mind) So why are you evn bothering trying to rationalize how it would work??

Besides making him darwinists just makes him a space hitler character and those have done to death, it makes just another space despot, there are about million of them in comics alone.

Wrong! For starters, Hitler was more of a megalomaniacal Racial supremacist. He used the notion of Darwinism to get his people to come around to wacky ideas.

My take on Brainiac (as of now) is neither a racist nor a megalomaniac. He actually likes humanity for all of it's flaws and wants to put them through the ultimate tests to see if the can be the great people he thinks they could be. That to him means putting them through hell. THAT'S ONLY PART OF HIS MOTIVATION. I really don't see how that is any similar to Apocalypse, who's motivation is far more sinister.

Hell, social darwinism was animated Grodd's motive in the JL cartoon, it is not orginal, it was been done a million times before.

This is one of the many reason why I think debating with you is becoming pointless. You are constantly say that this or that Villain Motive is unoriginal or a rip off of some previous work. When in fact every single Villain cliche is based on some other previous work.
Explain to me waht is so original about a TAS Robot Brainiac, who is a single minded Robot who is bent on destruction based on simplistic computer program gone haywire. It is rip off of so many previous concept that I can't even begin to list them. But for the sake of this debate I will list some of them:
Skynet
The Borg
Many Phillip K Dick Stories

Even Futurama Had an episode which featured Villains with the exact same motive as TAS Brainiac. Watch the episode:The Day The Earth Stood Stupid

Funny episode that really makes the TAS concept of Brainiac look absolutely stupid to me.

Let me ask you something, if you oppose robot Brainiac because you believe he is a "one dimensional character", then why do you support the inclusion of Doomsday, who is nothing more than a one dimensional plot device in the comics?

Well since it's impossible for you to see my perspective of things, I would think it's futile for me to write it out. However you asked so I will answer. Doomsday, at first to me, was a somwhat uninteresting character who was an ok plot device. At first I didn't like the concept of the death of Superman even though I bought the TPB and read from cover to cover again and again. (and still found it a good read) As time progressed and I matured, I liked what it showcased from Superman. (in character development) It showed a very human side from him, it showcaed his unblinking duty to his job and to those he loves. Plus it showcased a side of him that wew seldom see from most heroes. His decision to put aside his No killing policy (to get the job done) I think is a side that we should see from heroes. As for Doomsday Himself, I didn't grow to like Him until I read Hunter/Prey which gave him his origins and how his powers work. That along with some of the development of Superman's Character made me enjoy Hunter/Prey. I like that DD was you a typical Villain. He was a Villain of circumstances far beyond his comtrol. (his own nature) He wasn't intelligent but instinctive. Everything that lived was a threat to be destroyed in his simple mind. (which is why I liked the alien Series, the Villain wasn't evil it was a product of it's own nature) That coupled with his powers made him a more interesting Villain. Whether or not he should be on film is actually something I think would be very risky. However I think it's a risk worth taking.

Now as to why I'm turned off to TAS Robot Brainiac, blame it on the writers for not making him interesting. They nver answers the WHY'S of his origins just the most basic hows. They never go back to tie up any losse ends. (and there were LOTS of them in STAS)

If i'm making assumptions its because your being dodgey, you keep on saying you have all these great ideas,

Well If I 'm being "Dodgey" as you call it then it's always polite to ask instead of assuming. (I think you know the saying of making assumptions) I've stated time any again that it is an incomplete concept at best and second that if you do have questions then ask away. I have yet to see a question

yet I have to press you to get any info and i have assume things because you are always skecky on the details,

Again it's incomplete and constantly changing. That's how writers work. If you want info on some detail then ask nicely. There is almost no reason for assuming anything b/c it deviates from the points at hand. Asking direct questions keeps everything on topic.

you have only recently presnted anything close to clear presentation of your ideas and they are either convoluted or short on important details (ex: you still haven't said what extractly brainiac should look like).

Hmm... So For that reason I can't post a concept at all online. I'm sorry but who the hell are you to say what should or should be posted??? If I feel like posting something online, whether or not it's complete shouldn't be an issue.

Your trying to have it both ways, either present your ideas in full or stop mentioning them and work on them for bit before talking about them again,

No I'm not. I'm just saying that Judge me for what I've presented, not on your assumptions of what my presentation may or may not be. Your logic is very flawed if you think I'm trying to have things both ways. I'm saying be fair. I was fair in cricitizing your concept. I stuck to what you presented and nothing more.

don't shoot down other people's ideas when your being dodegey with your own ideas.

Severely flawed logic. I'm shooting down your concept itself and You are shooting down what you think my concept is. How does that even add up to me being unfair to you when it is clearly the other way around.

 

[The Overlord]

There you go. Have I even explained how it would work?? No! So where is all this nonsense coming from??

What?!?! Where the hell did I say that he adopts the same mentality?? Did you actually read my entire post?? Brainiac isn't a Racist like Kem-L.

When you rationalize it like the way you did. You have absolutely no grasp on my concept. (understandalby, you can't read my mind) So why are you evn bothering trying to rationalize how it would work??

Wrong! For starters, Hitler was more of a megalomaniacal Racial supremacist. He used the notion of Darwinism to get his people to come around to wacky ideas.

My take on Brainiac (as of now) is neither a racist nor a megalomaniac. He actually likes humanity for all of it's flaws and wants to put them through the ultimate tests to see if the can be the great people he thinks they could be. That to him means putting them through hell. THAT'S ONLY PART OF HIS MOTIVATION. I really don't see how that is any similar to Apocalypse, who's motivation is far more sinister.

This is one of the many reason why I think debating with you is becoming pointless. You are constantly say that this or that Villain Motive is unoriginal or a rip off of some previous work. When in fact every single Villain cliche is based on some other previous work.
Explain to me waht is so original about a TAS Robot Brainiac, who is a single minded Robot who is bent on destruction based on simplistic computer program gone haywire. It is rip off of so many previous concept that I can't even begin to list them. But for the sake of this debate I will list some of them:
Skynet
The Borg
Many Phillip K Dick Stories

Even Futurama Had an episode which featured Villains with the exact same motive as TAS Brainiac. Watch the episode:The Day The Earth Stood Stupid

Funny episode that really makes the TAS concept of Brainiac look absolutely stupid to me.



Well since it's impossible for you to see my perspective of things, I would think it's futile for me to write it out. However you asked so I will answer. Doomsday, at first to me, was a somwhat uninteresting character who was an ok plot device. At first I didn't like the concept of the death of Superman even though I bought the TPB and read from cover to cover again and again. (and still found it a good read) As time progressed and I matured, I liked what it showcased from Superman. (in character development) It showed a very human side from him, it showcaed his unblinking duty to his job and to those he loves. Plus it showcased a side of him that wew seldom see from most heroes. His decision to put aside his No killing policy (to get the job done) I think is a side that we should see from heroes. As for Doomsday Himself, I didn't grow to like Him until I read Hunter/Prey which gave him his origins and how his powers work. That along with some of the development of Superman's Character made me enjoy Hunter/Prey. I like that DD was you a typical Villain. He was a Villain of circumstances far beyond his comtrol. (his own nature) He wasn't intelligent but instinctive. Everything that lived was a threat to be destroyed in his simple mind. (which is why I liked the alien Series, the Villain wasn't evil it was a product of it's own nature) That coupled with his powers made him a more interesting Villain. Whether or not he should be on film is actually something I think would be very risky. However I think it's a risk worth taking.

Now as to why I'm turned off to TAS Robot Brainiac, blame it on the writers for not making him interesting. They nver answers the WHY'S of his origins just the most basic hows. They never go back to tie up any losse ends. (and there were LOTS of them in STAS)

Well If I 'm being "Dodgey" as you call it then it's always polite to ask instead of assuming. (I think you know the saying of making assumptions) I've stated time any again that it is an incomplete concept at best and second that if you do have questions then ask away. I have yet to see a question

Again it's incomplete and constantly changing. That's how writers work. If you want info on some detail then ask nicely. There is almost no reason for assuming anything b/c it deviates from the points at hand. Asking direct questions keeps everything on topic.

Hmm... So For that reason I can't post a concept at all online. I'm sorry but who the hell are you to say what should or should be posted??? If I feel like posting something online, whether or not it's complete shouldn't be an issue.

No I'm not. I'm just saying that Judge me for what I've presented, not on your assumptions of what my presentation may or may not be. Your logic is very flawed if you think I'm trying to have things both ways. I'm saying be fair. I was fair in cricitizing your concept. I stuck to what you presented and nothing more.

Severely flawed logic. I'm shooting down your concept itself and You are shooting down what you think my concept is. How does that even add up to me being unfair to you when it is clearly the other way around.

Okay you want me to judge your idea, all you did was take the Eradicator character and change hios name to Brainiac, your idea is BINO (Brainiac in name only): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_(comics) the wiki more or less is exactly like your idea. I think Eradicator is a crappy character
and I think your idea is not orginal at all, all you have done is take the Eradicator character and changed his name to Brainiac. That is why your idea is lame.

 

[Kroc1138]

Okay you want me to judge your idea, all you did was take the Eradicator character and change hios name to Brainiac, your idea is BINO (Brainiac in name only): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_(comics) the wiki more or less is exactly like your idea.

No it is at all!! IIRC part of that Premise is a Retcon. (originally Kem-L created the Eradicator) I find it very convient that you don't have any specifics as to how it's at all similar. My Brainiac is a mixing of Pre and Post Crisis versions. Eradicator is a Kryptonian device that is used to preserve the Kryptonian way. It in fact has more in common with the lousy rendering of Brainiac that we see in STAS but used in a far less effective manner. The similarity you some how see is actually very superficial. You grasping at straws you know. I don't ever recall the Eradicator being a Humaniod in his early history. Nor do I see Brainaic ever imitating Superman.

I think Eradicator is a crappy character

That's you. I don't Think so.

and I think your idea is not orginal at all,

Really?? Like yours is?? Have you ever heard of the word adaptation?? It taking events/storyline and characters and applying them to a different medium. (since it's ridiculous in many occassions to copy an paste comics to films)
That's what I did here.
[QOUTE]all you have done is take the Eradicator character and changed his name to Brainiac. That is why your idea is lame.[/QUOTE]Seeing as how I rendered that "point" you attempted to make moot there's little to say here.
You done like my concept, I don't like yours nor do I care to see anything from STAS realized on film.

But back to you point: (I assume this is the passage you are referring to)

In the distant past, a dying alien race created a number of devices to preserve their culture, and sent them into space, where they would encounter other civilization and link their colonies. When a small group of these aliens arrived on Krypton, a militaristic faction, led by Kem-L, killed them and corrupted one of their devices to preserve his ideal of Kryptonian culture; the device would eradicate alien influences, and hence he called it the "Eradicator."

You say that I took the Eradicator and made him Brainiac. The reasons why you are dead wrong are: (from my concept)
1. Brainiac was from Colu and he was from peacful civilization.
2. He wasn't a machine created to preserve His race and destroy others.
He Tries to save his own from an agressive outside force. He's more akin to Jor-El than anyone else.
3. Coluans are Generally Xenophobic, but nonagressive.


Seeing as how you incorrectly correlated my concept with the Eradicator's Retconned origin to me shows something odd about you. What's the point (if any) that you are trying to make??

 

[batman7289]

lex luthor should be the villian. but so sould be brainaic.
branic can be introduced as the guy who saved lex from the island

 

[The Overlord]

No it is at all!! IIRC part of that Premise is a Retcon. (originally Kem-L created the Eradicator) I find it very convient that you don't have any specifics as to how it's at all similar. My Brainiac is a mixing of Pre and Post Crisis versions. Eradicator is a Kryptonian device that is used to preserve the Kryptonian way. It in fact has more in common with the lousy rendering of Brainiac that we see in STAS but used in a far less effective manner. The similarity you some how see is actually very superficial. You grasping at straws you know. I don't ever recall the Eradicator being a Humaniod in his early history. Nor do I see Brainaic ever imitating Superman.



That's you. I don't Think so.

Really?? Like yours is?? Have you ever heard of the word adaptation?? It taking events/storyline and characters and applying them to a different medium. (since it's ridiculous in many occassions to copy an paste comics to films)
That's what I did here.
[QOUTE]all you have done is take the Eradicator character and changed his name to Brainiac. That is why your idea is lame.

Seeing as how I rendered that "point" you attempted to make moot there's little to say here.
You done like my concept, I don't like yours nor do I care to see anything from STAS realized on film.

But back to you point: (I assume this is the passage you are referring to)


You say that I took the Eradicator and made him Brainiac. The reasons why you are dead wrong are: (from my concept)
1. Brainiac was from Colu and he was from peacful civilization.
2. He wasn't a machine created to preserve His race and destroy others.
He Tries to save his own from an agressive outside force. He's more akin to Jor-El than anyone else.
3. Coluans are Generally Xenophobic, but nonagressive.


Seeing as how you incorrectly correlated my concept with the Eradicator's Retconned origin to me shows something odd about you. What's the point (if any) that you are trying to make??[/QUOTE]

Where does Kem-L fit into Brainiac's history, Pre or Post Crisis? Kem-L, the cleric and events from 200,000 years are from Eredicator's convoluted backstory, they have nothing to do with Brainiac. All you have done is merged two different characters into a convoluted mess. Ever heard of kiss (keep it simple stupid)? The audience doesn't want some convoluted nonsense about Kem-L, Clerics and a war between Kem-L's forces and Colu that happened 200,000 years, that would take too much time away from the main story and is needlessly long and convoluted. Besides its full of holes, you haven't explained how Brainiac even develops his lame @ss Darwinist ideology. Its too convoluted to work on screen and your getting over emotional.

 

[Amm-arD]

Eradicator sounds a bit lame, Braniac is better^...anyways..i havnt really followed superman in the comics atall but i think the film was brilliant. I have very limited knowledge about his enemies but i heard in Comic Con there was a scene where a huge S appeared with blood dripping down it!! IF that means the death of superman im guessing Doomsday(it really would be a visual feast)..except i agree with a few who say, Braniac in 2, then Doomsday in 3

 

[Metropolis_Man]

I would like to see Eradicator and Bizarro. It would be nice to see a three way battle between them, and eventually Bizarro realizes he should help Superman and sacrifices himself for Supes in some way.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

Just mix Eradicator and Brainiac and presto, a great movie character.

 

[Lighthouse]

I think both Matt and I can agree on this one....

Superman faces his greatest foe ever when Lumbergh forces Clark to work on a weekend. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kroc1138]

Where does Kem-L fit into Brainiac's history, Pre or Post Crisis?

He doesn't.

Kem-L, the cleric and events from 200,000 years are from Eredicator's convoluted backstory, they have nothing to do with Brainiac.

Thank you for stating the obvious. Again, one of the many aspects of adaptations is taking creative liberties. Seeing as how I think that both Brainiac and the Eradicator should be in a movie, I thought of a way to mix both together.

All you have done is merged two different characters into a convoluted mess.

Nope. It really isn't that Convoluded. Detailed? Sure! The problem is that you assume that for some reason that all of that backstory is going to be jammed into one movie along with a billion other plot points. The First Rule of having detailed plotlines and backstories is to have the Characters explain them at approapriate Times. It's that simple. You are just making things sound more complicated than they really are.

Ever heard of kiss (keep it simple stupid)?

Who hasn't. However, it works in varying degrees. In Action Movies and Comedies, it works to a small degree if you want cheap thrills, lots of action and laughs. Sci-Fi, Fantasy (esp Superhero movies) need more.

The audience doesn't want some convoluted nonsense about Kem-L, Clerics and a war between Kem-L's forces and Colu that happened 200,000 years, that would take too much time away from the main story and is needlessly long and convoluted.

Says you?? What the hell do you know about what an audience wants. For starters, you are definately not giving the General Audience much credit at all with you incorrect, uneducated assumption. Second, Predicting the GA tastes as far as I know is an inexact science to begin with. The GA is very unpredictable on many occasions.

The last point: Again, you go with your foolish assumptions.
What sane person would literally throw in a huge backstory and actually showcase on screen?? Are you really that dense?? The whole notion of that backstory is to show some depth for the Villain. The back story would be explained (in part) by him selectively. The rest would be reveal in approapriate times as things progress. That's how you handle detail.

Besides its full of holes,

Really?? Care to explain. All of your points are based on really bad assumptions, so I'd like to see a list.

you haven't explained how Brainiac even develops his lame @ss Darwinist ideology.

Again that angle is in the works. The fact that you seem to site it as a "Hole" is ludicrous. Your looking at an incomplete work (I haven't even written anything down) as a script draft. I find your logic quite juvenile.

Its too convoluted to work on screen and your getting over emotional.

Really?? Personally, I could care less whether you like my concept or not, if that's what you are getting at. That's how the world works. If anything I'm just baffled by how you debate. For someone who is so passionately against my Idea, I would have expected more detail in why you dislike my idea. Then you judge an incomplete concept like a complete one. You recycle point after point again and again. It get's annoying. That combined with your ignorant assumptions gets old. Again, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, but be on topic when you do.

However, I will say one thing. My Brainiac concept is a bit Much. I know that.
I think that with Movies, risks should be taken. Sticking to a certain status quo makes things get stale. I think that with some refinement that My concept, albeit risky, is a good calculated risk. It's a good mixing of Pre and Post Crisis w/o just cutting and pasting the stories from the comics on film.
Now for STAS, I just didn't like any of it at all for so many reasons. I've posted on it here many a time. It's juvenile writing, full of plot holes, Plot inconsistencies, lousy Villain Portrayals. (Save Luthor and Darkseid) and many other problems I can list on another thread. To me this is the last resource that we should be looking for inspiration for Superman movie storylines. (There is 60 years worth of comics for that)

 

[Davinder1985]

All the superman villians seem a bit lame. They should try something completely new. Hey maybe even re-imagine superman a bit like they did Batman.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Uhhh why the **** is a made-up character beating Parasite on the front page poll?? Lol.

 

[The Only Woj]

does anyone believe singer when he says that the next villain will be an alien?

well, Zod is an alien, right?

 

[BigMac]

Doomsday. That is all.

 

[Maestro Limpio]

My reasonable Superman Returns 2 idea: Braniac attacks earth, luthor uses braniac's technology to turn one of his thugs (john corben) into metallo and gives him krypronite heart.

My crazy Superman Returns 3 idea: Luthor creates bizzaro. Bizarro fights superman, but eventually turns on luthor. A desperate Luthor utilizes kryptonian technology and tries another cloning experiment which goes horribly wrong. Doomsday is born. Doomsday kills Bizarro, then an enraged Superman retaliates in climactic battle. Doomsday dies, Superman lives, and Bizarro is mourned.

Superman Returns 4: Darkseid? Also, i'd really like to see Luthor's battle armor at some point. Maybe he teams with supes to defeat darkseid at the end?

I'm not a doomsday fan but if they could use him in an interesting way and not have him kill superman, i'd be down. If anyone kills superman, it'd better be luthor or darkseid or someone who's worthy.

 

[Dotten]

To bad Batman is not an option...

I would love a Supes vs batty movie with Routh and Bale.

 

[captain_jimbo]

To bad Batman is not an option...

I would love a Supes vs batty movie with Routh and Bale.

Here, here!

 

[Zigno]

 

[3 Dev Adam]

Why Mr. Mxyzptlk is not on the list?

BTW, it took me ten years to get his name right.