Superman, why don't you stop sitting on the fence !

Discussion in 'DC Comics' started by yahman, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. yahman Registered

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    I was just thinking about this because i've had slightly too much to drink, but isn't Superman such an immoral hypocrite. He's like Kantian ethics gone wrong. He has the power to do so much, but he really does **** all. I mean he could literally end all suffering if he could be propperly arsed to use his so called 'super intellect'.

    Sure it would end up in the demise of certain freedoms for the common man, but with all his Super intellect surely he should realise that so called 'freedom' is a myth (what with political correctness, censorship, law etc.). I wish someone would do a reverse Alan Moore comic, and show how easy it would actually appear to achieve hapiness (in a sense) with godlike abilities.
     
  2. batnkevlar Registered

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    There was a run where Superman took over the world...
     
  3. Harlekin Business

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    Except having Superman make everything right is too easy. Humanity needs to fix things on their own. Superman'll save your life, but he's not really one for social movement. Humanity needs to pick up its own slack or it will just become entirely complacent and completely rely on him.
     
  4. yahman Registered

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    Rubbish, if hummanity finds a way of achieving omni hapiness or the eventual 'answer' of everything (depending on what priority you prefer) its going to involve a minority or an independant person 'aiding' us. Who cares if it is an ailen ?
     
  5. Aristotle Registered

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    I think I wish I'd had as much to drink as you have.
     
  6. Anubis Sup?

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    It will all go down the way it always goes down whenever you read a book where superheros do all the work. The whole world goes to s**t. Perfect example, the King Thor arc.
     
  7. Aristotle Registered

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    A counterexample would be The Authority, but then some smug capitalist **** who thinks he knows better than the title's creator about what the story should mean decides to commission a story about the utter and complete failure of The Authority and its mission. And now that's like all the WildStorm Universe is: snide references from every posthuman on the planet about how spectacular of a failure The Authority was. ****, in the one issue we got of their new series which actually featured them, that's all THEY could even talk about.
     
  8. elgaz Registered

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    It comes down to a very basic thing - understanding.

    You can cheat in an exam ...... pass it with flying colours, progress to college/job etc but there will come a time when your knowledge will be tested for real and you simply won't have the skills to pass that test.

    I think they've always tried to portray Superman's attitude in that light. He could cure poverty, help establish world peace, etc, but ultimately it's only a temporary solution if humanity itself hasn't understood the problem, addressed the problem and resolved the problem. When he goes, we will simply slip back to old ways.

    Superman really only presents an ideal. His humanity and integrity is not a tool for us to fix our problems in the short term, but something we should all aim towards as a long term solution to our problems.
     
  9. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    How is humanity going to find that way if Superman did it for them?

    Besides, if he denied freedom from the common man, by definition he isn't providing the greatest happiness.

    This isn't uncovered ground. Writer after writer and even fans have tackled this same exact quandary over and over again and always arrived at the same conclusion: Superman can't give paradise to people because people need to earn it for themselves.
     
  10. SpandexFan Registered

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    I believe Superman did attempt to do this. It was called Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. :o
     
  11. yahman Registered

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    I disagree that Freedom is necessary for hapiness. Take the cave men. They where by all definitions 'free', but would you choose the hunter gather life style over what we have now ? I wouldn't ! Freedom is overated, and bastardised in most of Alan Moores work.

    So your against charity to the third world are you ?, because in round about sense its the same arguement !
     
  12. Harlekin Business

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    In a very roundabout sense. That's humanity helping itself. Superman is a very powerful alien. For your plan to work, Superman would actually have to rule the world, and that just isn't a very good idea.
     
  13. The Question Objectivism doesn't work.

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    Also, how exactly could Superman end all suffering? I mean, it's not like he can heal people or bend time and space to his will or anything like that. He's really, really strong, really really fast, can fly, and can do funky **** with his eyes. Sure, he can save lives and stop bad guys from hurting people, but over all, his powers have more destructive applications than constructive ones. If he were going to make a better world as you suggest, it would involve toppling governments and killing a **** load of people.
     
  14. Mister J Enlightened to the Great Darkness

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    :dry:

    So we're not free because we can go to the supermarket instead of having to hunt in the wild? :huh:

    I'm not seeing how Superman's abilities can end all suffering.
     
  15. Aristotle Registered

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    Really? In what way is the world a better place now? Because for every form of telecommunications, for every form of speedy transportation, for every benefit of electricity, I'll just point you in the direction of environmental degradation, atomic warfare, extreme poverty, misogyny, mass violence, torture, and crime. Seems to me, the benefits of living post-agrarian revolution can't ever come close to outweighing the negatives.

    Charity to the third world should take the form of sustainable economic aid that doesn't establish a dependency on further charity. It should teach them how to survive and thrive on their own, without any more reliance on us. However, most people in the Western world like to think of themselves as the big strong muscular messianic white man (much like your vision of Superman), so that will never happen.

    Also, here's a form of suffering Superman couldn't end: feeling ****ty after a breakup. Another: AIDS. Another: Clinical mental illness. Shall I go on?
     
  16. Doc Destruction Geaux Saints!

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    There was a JSA Confidential issue with Alan Scott and Jakeem Thunder that explored this very issue VERY well. I highly recommend reading it.
     
  17. The Leaguer Registered

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    Superman: "Humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."

    Flash: "Why should they need us at all?"

    Superman: "To catch them if they fall."
     
  18. Gilpesh Registered

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    "Why don't you put the entire world in a bottle, Superman?"
     
  19. Darthphere Kneel before 'Drox!

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    Leaguer....that was beautiful.:huh:
     
  20. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    And the alternative -- tyranny -- is just as overrated, and even more bastardized by any manner of fiction. There is such a thing as a happy medium, you know.

    Besides, it's really not like you have definitive proof that cavemen were less happy than us.

    Superman does give charity to the third world. He just does it at the consent of the U.N. and the people who actually run the world.

    Would you believe that there are countries that would actually get pissed if Superman handed out charity on his own? Would you believe that there are countries that would actually get pissed if Superman tried to help them? Wars could be started by the mere presence of Superman in unauthorized airspace. And which country should Superman support, if that happens? America? Europe? The countries that are just defending their right to live their lives as they want? Humanity is not nearly ready for what that would suggest.

    Like Harlekin said, the only real way that could work is if Superman just took over the world by force, and you'd have to be drunker than you are at the moment to think that could possibly be a good idea. Not to mention the fact that it wouldn't really be possible anyway; there are dozens upon dozens of characters and organizations in the DCU who could and would stop him if he tried anything like that.
    And what would happen when someone disagrees with him? Super-lobotomy? And then what happens when Superman dies? The world just reverts to the same shtty state it was before he decided to play God?

    Again, I reiterate; none of this is new ground. You're not bringing up anything that dozens of writers haven't already covered and refuted.
     
  21. Anubis Sup?

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    Yeah dip s**t! (i'm drunk now to.)
     
  22. spectre Registered

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    maybe this sounds a little odd but the way i see it paradise is unatainable and humanity will always be trying to find it. plus if paradise were to ever somehow be reached...what then? if all unhappiness and suffering were to just disappear and life was perfect for everyone what the hell could life possibly consist of? to me its humanity's struggle to acheive paradise that makes life worth living, not the goal itself.
     
  23. BlackOpsTengu Registered

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    It's a bit funny, because I hear this same argument all the time from people who think that God's an evil **** because he doesn't come down from on high and fix problems like Mr. Clean on scum. People do a good enough job screwing up their own lives for Superman/God to make things that much worse by action or inaction.

    Mind you because that's cause I find most Atheists as close mind, jerky and annoying as most modern, dogmatic religious figures. Yeah, that's 99% of the human race, but thems the chops eh?
     
  24. Mladen Registered

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    Thats just it though, with a different upbringing Superman could very well want to do this. thats why the kents are so important in shaping what superman is. its his family that gave him the knowledge that you can't force peace onto anybody who doesn't make it for themselves. what you've just described is fascism. a peace enforced by an all-powerful alien being is not freedom at all.

    Lex Luthor man of steel looked at this territory too, but that was through lex's paranoid mind. lex was afraid that one day superman might just decide to do exactly what you've described. in that comic thats part of the reason why he wants to destroy him.
     
  25. The Leaguer Registered

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    I know.
     

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