SUPERNATURAL Season 8! - Part 1

[Orb]

Also I just wanna say I'm liking Metatron right now and the the actor portraying him. I hope he sticks around for a good amount.

 

[Anno_Domini]

So the three trials are:

1.) To kill
2.) To save
3.) To cure

Would the Heaven trials be different or maybe closely to the same as Hell's trials?

 

[S. Grundy]

Also I just wanna say I'm liking Metatron right now and the the actor portraying him. I hope he sticks around for a good amount.

He's signed on for the next two episodes, and also may play a bigger role in season 9.

 

[Ken-Kaniff]

Could it be Abaddon they will try to cure? Or maybe a soul from Hell that became a demon? I doubt it's gonna be Crowley, but rather someone who would be happy when cured. I think Crowley wants to stay like that forever, haven't we seen it before, the scene with his son? And even if he would be cured, it's hard for me to believe he will not stab the boys in the back.

 

[<(o_o)>]

Also I just wanna say I'm liking Metatron right now and the the actor portraying him. I hope he sticks around for a good amount.

Yes always liked the actor who plays Metatron. Would have liked Metatron much more if Curtis Armstrong had got to play him like his character of "Booger" from the Revenge Of The Nerds movies.

 

[Ken-Kaniff]

So far I like Metatron and the introduction he got, but I hope we're gonna see him kick some butt, he pretty much pawned Crowley when he grabbed Kev!

 

[SWAT]

Yes always liked the actor who plays Metatron. Would have liked Metatron much more if Curtis Armstrong had got to play him like his character of "Booger" from the Revenge Of The Nerds movies.

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[Kar]

So the three trials are:

1.) To kill
2.) To save
3.) To cure

Would the Heaven trials be different or maybe closely to the same as Hell's trials?

That's if Heaven has trials to close their gates. I imagine the Angel tablet just dissects them.

Great episode. Slow start but it was worth it. I'd like Kevin to become a hunter next season since he's basically done as a prophet.

As for curing the demon, maybe it is Abbadon which would explain her reappearance. Meg would've been better for this. But there has to be more to the final trial cause there's still one episode left after that. If they succeed next week then what?

 

[Marvolo]

That's if Heaven has trials to close their gates. I imagine the Angel tablet just dissects them.

Great episode. Slow start but it was worth it. I'd like Kevin to become a hunter next season since he's basically done as a prophet.

As for curing the demon, maybe it is Abbadon which would explain her reappearance. Meg would've been better for this. But there has to be more to the final trial cause there's still one episode left after that. If they succeed next week then what?

Like Sam said, the trials are purifying him which instantly made me think of a lamb being purified for sacrifice. I'm not saying Sam will be sacrificed, but the trials don't close the gates. They make the person worthy or capable of closing the gates. Once Sam has completed all three trials he will be able to close the gates. The season finale will be about this final action to close the gates.

 

[The Question]

You know, you'd think Meg would be the most logical demon to cure. But she's dead. And having it be just any old demon would be kind of anti-climactic. It'll have to be Crowley, I think. They make him human, and he comes back as a recurring villain looking for revenge for having lost his powers.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It makes sense for it to be Abaddon since they took the time and brought her back.

 

[Marvolo]

You know, you'd think Meg would be the most logical demon to cure. But she's dead. And having it be just any old demon would be kind of anti-climactic. It'll have to be Crowley, I think. They make him human, and he comes back as a recurring villain looking for revenge for having lost his powers.

I think youre missing the point of curing a demon. I took it to mean cleansing the demonic soul of its corruption and evil. Demons were once human souls who were corrupted. Curing a demon means stripping the soul of its corruption and evil and returning it to its original state.

A cured demon wouldn't be evil and looking for revenge. Least that's what I'm guessing. So after the demon is cured and the soul is free it will go to heaven.

 

[Orb]

It would be strange having Crowley be a good guy if he's cured.

 

[The Question]

I think youre missing the point of curing a demon. I took it to mean cleansing the demonic soul of its corruption and evil. Demons were once human souls who were corrupted. Curing a demon means stripping the soul of its corruption and evil and returning it to its original state.

A cured demon wouldn't be evil and looking for revenge. Least that's what I'm guessing. So after the demon is cured and the soul is free it will go to heaven.

I get the impression that Crowley was evil as a human. It was pretty heavily implied that he was an abusive father.

 

[Kar]

I like how Metatron was just a normal run of the mill angel and not another powerful one cause it makes you wonder where all these powerful ones were hiding. His final words were very cryptic but raised alot of questions. What are the consequences of closing the gates? A world with no demons, that's like 80% of evil.

Crowley melting the angel blade into a gun was very smart and creative. He's proven himself to be the smartest villain of the series so far. Figuring out where Cas was hiding the tablet was genius! But I think it is his time to go.

I wonder what curing could mean. The promo mentioned an exorcism so maybe that's how they do it.

 

[Marvolo]

I get the impression that Crowley was evil as a human. It was pretty heavily implied that he was an abusive father.

Well they aren't curing Crowley so that shouldn't be an issue. If the preview for next week is any indication they will cure Abbadon. That being said most demons were awful human beings who were corrupted along the way. Curing them would probably cleanse them of all corruption. Even the corruption that made them crappy human beings.

 

[The Question]

Well they aren't curing Crowley so that shouldn't be an issue. If the preview for next week is any indication they will cure Abbadon. That being said most demons were awful human beings who were corrupted along the way. Curing them would probably cleanse them of all corruption. Even the corruption that made them crappy human beings.

You don't know any of that for certain. You certainly don't have any reason to assume that curing them removes all corruption, including the normal kind they came to the party with all on their own.

From a narrative standpoint Crowley is the more likely choice. And from a narrative standpoint it would make much more sense for the curing process to simply remove their demonic nature, and not make them especially more good than they were as human beings. If I were writing the story, I'd have them try to cure Abbadon but end up curing Crowley instead as a twist.

Not saying it'll definitely happen, just saying there's no reason to rule it out yet.

A world with no demons, that's like 80% of evil.

I doubt that. I'm pretty sure the lion's share of the evil comes from normal people making bad choices.

 

[Marvolo]

You don't know any of that for certain. You certainly don't have any reason to assume that curing them removes all corruption, including the normal kind they came to the party with all on their own.

From a narrative standpoint Crowley is the more likely choice. And from a narrative standpoint it would make much more sense for the curing process to simply remove their demonic nature, and not make them especially more good than they were as human beings. If I were writing the story, I'd have them try to cure Abbadon but end up curing Crowley instead as a twist.

Not saying it'll definitely happen, just saying there's no reason to rule it out yet.



I doubt that. I'm pretty sure the lion's share of the evil comes from normal people making bad choices.

That's why I said I was guessing. Since the demon corruption process can start while they are still alive and human (in the case of Ruby and other witches and that sort) I would expect all corruption to need to be cleansed from the soul for the trial to be complete.

 

[The Question]

That's why I said I was guessing. Since the demon corruption process can start while they are still alive and human (in the case of Ruby) I would expect all corruption to need to be cleansed from the soul for the trial to be complete.

1: Because Ruby was super honest.

2: The corruption process starts when they're alive and human in that demons get humans to sell their souls, but they're not actually transformed into demons until after the payment is collected. And, in the case of most demons, including Crowley, the corruption they already possessed had nothing to do with them being demons. If curing them resets them to the way they were before they were demons, then Crowley would still be an amoral abusive bastard because that's how he was before he ever sold his soul.

 

[Marvolo]

1: Because Ruby was super honest.

2: The corruption process starts when they're alive and human in that demons get humans to sell their souls, but they're not actually transformed into demons until after the payment is collected. And, in the case of most demons, including Crowley, the corruption they already possessed had nothing to do with them being demons. If curing them resets them to the way they were before they were demons, then Crowley would still be an amoral abusive bastard because that's how he was before he ever sold his soul.

Its the corruption of their human lives that leads them to become a demon in hell. The human side of the equation is as important as the spiritual corruption after their death.

Remember that demons in Supernatural are nothing but very corrupted souls. The cure wouldn't differentiate between corruption attained before death and corruption after. Its all corruption on the same soul. Its all tainting the soul. If your going to cure a soul you have to completely cure it otherwise the corruption left behind just reemerges and your sick all over again and that isn't being cured by any definition of the word.

 

[The Question]

Its the corruption of their human lives that leads them to become a demon in hell. The human side of the equation is as important as the spiritual corruption after their death.

Remember that demons in Supernatural are nothing but very corrupted souls. The cure wouldn't differentiate between corruption attained before death and corruption after. Its all corruption on the same soul. Its all tainting the soul. If your going to cure a soul you have to completely cure it otherwise the corruption left behind just reemerges and your sick all over again and that isn't being cured by any definition of the word.

How do you know any of that?

 

[Marvolo]

How do you know any of that?

Because its all been talked about in the show since season 3. A demon is created when a human soul in hell goes over to the other side. Some souls start down that path in life and some are good in life but are corrupted in hell (Dean). Demons are nothing more than human souls who are uber corrupted.

The trial is curing a demon which in the show is nothing but a corrupted human soul. So the trial is curing the soul. Anytime you cure any sickness you have to get it all otherwise it reemerges. I expect it to be the same here. If they only remove some of the corruption then the rest of the corruption will lead the soul back down the path to evil. That is not curing anything.

To use a real life example, if you have cancer and they only remove half of it and left the other half to eat away at your body would you say you were cured?

 

[The Question]

Because its all been talked about in the show since season 3. A demon is created when a human soul in hell goes over to the other side. Some souls start down that path in life and some are good but are corrupted in hell (Dean). Demons are nothing more than human souls who are uber corrupted.

The trial is curing a demon which in the show is nothing but a corrupted human soul. So the trial is curing the soul. Anytime you cure a sickness you have to get it all otherwise it reemerges. I expect it to be the same here. If they only remove some of the corruption then the rest of the corruption will lead the soul back down the path to evil. That is not curing anything.

How do you know that will happen? How do you know that they won't stay human and remain corrupt, just not demonically corrupt? And how do you know that a soul can't be evil while also not being a demon?

Clearly, there are some incredibly corrupt people who aren't demons. Hell, H.H. Holmes was a serial killer, and he came back in the show as a ghost, not a demon.

To use a real life example, if you have cancer and they only remove half of it and left the other half to eat away at your body would you say you were cured?

No. But what reason is there to assume that it works anything like cancer?

 

[Marvolo]

How do you know that will happen? How do you know that they won't stay human and remain corrupt, just not demonically corrupt? And how do you know that a soul can't be evil while also not being a demon?

Clearly, there are some incredibly corrupt people who aren't demons. Hell, H.H. Holmes was a serial killer, and he came back in the show as a ghost, not a demon.



No. But what reason is there to assume that it works anything like cancer?

You seem to be thinking the cure brings them back to life or something. Their bodies are gone. They are just corrupt souls who possess other bodies. The cure doesn't bring them back to life and resurrect their original body. It does what it says. It cures the soul. It relieves the soul of corruption that afflicts them.

Using logic,

Third trial is curing a demon. In this show, by definition a demon is nothing more than a corrupted soul. The definition of cure" is to relieve of an affliction" in this case the affliction is the corruption of the demon. It has nothing to do with resurrecting the body and putting the soul back in the body and bringing them back to life as a living breathing human. That goes way beyond curing a soul. I see no reason to assume the cured demon will suddenly pop back in his original body and start living a normal human life. They will be cured and most likely go to heaven.

 

[The Question]

You seem to be thinking the cure brings them back to life or something. Their bodies are gone. They are just corrupt souls who possess other bodies. The cure doesn't bring them back to life and resurrect their original body. It does what it says. It cures the soul. It relieves the soul of corruption that afflicts them.

Using logic,

Third trial is curing a demon. In this show, by definition a demon is nothing more than a corrupted soul. The definition of cure" is to relieve of an affliction" in this case the affliction is the corruption of the demon. It has nothing to do with resurrecting the body and putting the soul back in the body and bringing them back to life as a living breathing human. That goes way beyond curing a soul. I see no reason to assume the cured demon will suddenly pop back in his original body and start living a normal human life. They will be cured and most likely go to heaven.

It might, though. I mean, it easily could if the writers wanted it to.

At the very least the soul might take ownership of the body the demon is currently possessing.

I'm just saying that you can't really say what the cure does and does not do since we haven't seen it do anything yet.