The Dark Knight TDK Casting Sides

[cjblair]

Do we need The Joker to tell us he has had a troubling past? The guy is robbing bank, handing live grenades to civilians, murdering his colleagues, and wearing clown makeup, and has disfiguring facial scars. I know audiences are generally considered to be pretty stupid, but I doubt many people would imagine that the fellow was pulling this heist between a day in his cushy and highly paid job before going home to his adoring wife and kids.

Maybe he just got a rejection letter from clown college. Clown school rejects

 

[regwec]

Let's NOT show Bruce Wayne dealing with the pyschological burden of his actions. I mean, it's obvious he'd have some issues right? We don't need to cover that. It's not even worth one line of dialogue .

The obvious difference is that Bruce is able to meditate on his psychology in order to master it; The Joker is insane, or seems to be.

 

[itsthebatman]

It is only one line. It's delivered well, and it's a twist on the established phrase (stranger for stronger). Other than that, the prologue dialogue is pretty similar to the sides dialogue.
I don't think we're getting to get much more on Joker's origin in this movie (if Nolan's comments about Joker being an absolute are anything to go by), anyway, so what harm can one line do?

 

[regwec]

It's not that harmful, I just much prefer the line from the sides.

 

[The Mighty Wind]

Yeah, it's a joke that's every bit as good as one of Mr Freeze's from Batman and Robin.

First off, Mr. Freeze was never supposed to be a pun-spouting, mayhem loving character. Secondly unlike "Freeze" or "Cool off" the double meaning to the Joker's statement is actually clever, it applies very well to the situation and reflects on the Joker's personal philosophy.

It also reveals zip-diddley of his past. It implies that some thing, or things, happened to him that made his crazy/crazier. Given the scarring, the makeup, the bug-**** insanity, this is already wholly apparent.

You have complained relentlessly about the way Nolan's realism has butchered aspects of the comics. Yet on of the staples of any storytelling form, whether it be film, comics, novels, etc. is that people's speech patterns are cleverer, wittier and more concise than in real life. One of the major parts to the Joker's character is his ability to say things that are unnerving, witty and ironic. You seem to be arguing that the very notion that the Joker (of all characters) is able to come up with quotable, witty one-liners on the spot, is ridiculous and a poor portrayal of his character. Quite simply put, your argument completely betrays the Joker's character.

 

[regwec]

No it doesn't. Where did I object to the line because it was "comic booky" or too unrealistic? I said I found the "rude to stare" line more effective, and I rejected the notion that The Joker giving away something about himself made him more mysterious.

This happens again and again on these boards- I will express mild indifference for a particular line or creative choice, a fan will then attack me with flawed reasoning, I will underline those flaws, at which point another fan will have decided that I am obsessed by the whole issue.

Yawn.

 

[itsthebatman]

No it doesn't. Where did I object to the line because it was "comic booky" or too unrealistic? I said I found the "rude to stare" line more effective, and I rejected the notion that The Joker giving away something about himself made him more mysterious.

This happens again and again on these boards- I will express mild indifference for a particular line or creative choice, a fan will then attack me with flawed reasoning, I will underline those flaws, at which point another fan will have decided that I am obsessed by the whole issue.

Yawn.

Geez, dude, get over it, you big Burton loving Nolan hating Sienna Guillory obsessed weirdo. Your type makes me sick.

 

[Octoberist]

regwec is cool, and he adds balance here. Maybe, just maybe, one thing that most people don't get about regwec's writing is that he comes off as condescending. (I'm sorry sometimes you do, rec) Most he's mostly harmless and a good member of the board.

 

[regwec]

Thanks.

 

[Octoberist]

haha. you're cool, man and you do back up your opinions well.

 

[sasquatchs]

Everyone that joined in '05 is amazing. So close itsthebatman

 

[itsthebatman]

Everyone that joined in '05 is amazing. So close itsthebatman

Shove it.

Spoiler

 

[Franky4Fingers]

Yeah get off Reg's back he can say some pos..iti...v...e things sometimes, I guess.....

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Everyone that joined in '05 is amazing. So close itsthebatman

So I guess us '04 cats are left out .

 

[regwec]

'Hype joining dates are a bit like Bordeaux vintages.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

The bank manager scene as it appears in the sides is far superior to the altered version in the prologue. The original dialogue is much less hackneyed, and seems much more spontaneous. The exchange in the prologue sees The Joker respond to the bank manager's cliched monologue with a catchprase that is obviously designed for its quotability. It recalls some of the worst Goyerisms of Batman Begins, in my opinion.

This is a good discussion we have going here over line changes. I agree that I'm not a fan of Jokers little "catchphrase." I realize it's a "clever" twist on a saying, but I just think it's hokey. At least "It's rude to stare" is a natural line that you can imagine people saying in real life... the catchphrase line is something he would have to come up with ahead of time, think about, practice in the mirror before going to bed... I just don't think Joker would try that hard to be "clever."

And don't even get me started on Goyerisms in BB. *wants to stab something* He continually shot holes in what was an otherwise respectable dramatic film with his stupid, stupid lines.

Regwec I disagree. I think that the original content (the exchange) is far more cliche than in the prologue. Besides the prologue response the Joker gives makes his character even more mysterious to the audience.

I don't think it makes him mysterious, because the line sounds too contrived. I mean you really have to come up with a saying like that, it doesn't seem off the cuff. It sounds like Joker says this repeatedly to all his minions or something, the hokey line he recites at all fitting occasions for himself.

the bank managers lines are pretty spot on...but wouldnt you think they would INTENTIONALLY change Jokers lines...in case of a leak...like what happened? i mean they called him the gentle voice for cryin out loud

IMO

But a gentle voice always makes characters scarier =( Haven't you heard Dr Lector speak? =(

I would have loved to see Heath incant "It's rude to stare."

Me too. I hope they use it somewhere else.

Do we need The Joker to tell us he has had a troubling past? The guy is robbing bank, handing live grenades to civilians, murdering his colleagues, and wearing clown makeup, and has disfiguring facial scars. I know audiences are generally considered to be pretty stupid, but I doubt many people would imagine that the fellow was pulling this heist between a day in his cushy and highly paid job before going home to his adoring wife and kids.

Exactly. The line reveals nothing except that something made him insane. You can obviously tell he's insane, and you would imagine something MADE him so as an adult, or he'd have been locked away and doped up since childhood.

Let's NOT show Bruce Wayne dealing with the pyschological burden of his actions. I mean, it's obvious he'd have some issues right? We don't need to cover that. It's not even worth one line of dialogue .

I'm not actually sure if this is a serious or sarcastic post. So I'll just say that I adore anything that deals with the psychology of Bruce Wayne and the burden of his actions as long as it's done in a believable manner. Maybe it's just me, but the occasional moment of doubt, regret, brooding when things don't go his way, show him to be still human and a sympathetic character. I prefer Bruce Wayne to be an amazing human being, but still a human being, not a robot on a mission who is perfect and absolute in everything.

The obvious difference is that Bruce is able to meditate on his psychology in order to master it; The Joker is insane, or seems to be.

I'd like to see the psychology of both none the less though.

Geez, dude, get over it, you big Burton loving Nolan hating Sienna Guillory obsessed weirdo. Your type makes me sick.

WTF???

This is what really irks me about the boards sometimes. Anyone that criticizes Nolans films in ANY way, or mentions something that Burton did that they like at all (which btway Reg never even referenced Burton in this conversation, so nice random jump there isthebatman...) but anytime you have a critique or complaint or don't like something, a million fanboys are ready to defend Nolan to the death and insult you and your mama.

Get over yourselves, Nolan is not a god! It IS okay to critique his work! Geez. Just because he's a good director doesn't mean he never makes a mistake or can't do something that SOME fans wont like.

I for one am glad he's the one directing these movies. That doesn't mean I don't have some complaints and criticisms on the other hand though.

regwec is cool, and he adds balance here. Maybe, just maybe, one thing that most people don't get about regwec's writing is that he comes off as condescending. (I'm sorry sometimes you do, rec) Most he's mostly harmless and a good member of the board.

I agree, and regwec is very smart so I respect what he has to say. I don't think he comes off as condescending, unless you think that not sucking up to everyones opinion and treating the boards like a popularity contest is condescending.

I am glad to have intelligent fans on the boards who don't eat up everything given to us with a spoon, but actually question and analyze these films as well as enjoy them. Without that, there would be no debates.

 

[itsthebatman]

Mmmm. I was being sarcastic, BF, satirizing the 'Nolanites' who would jump down regwec's throat because of his comments. I get on very well with regwec, I was just having a bit of (too subtle) fun.

 

[The Shape]

No it doesn't. Where did I object to the line because it was "comic booky" or too unrealistic? I said I found the "rude to stare" line more effective, and I rejected the notion that The Joker giving away something about himself made him more mysterious.

This happens again and again on these boards- I will express mild indifference for a particular line or creative choice, a fan will then attack me with flawed reasoning, I will underline those flaws, at which point another fan will have decided that I am obsessed by the whole issue.

Yawn.

Dood!! Yoo arr so obbsesseddd!!!

 

[Franky4Fingers]

I think the Joker comes up with the whatever doesnt kill you part so quickly in response bc it appears he was in a near death situation, so that parts easy. The Stranger part you can tell he is searching for a word on the spot (Ledger looking up for a brief moment as if he is thinking of the right word) to go with the rest of what he just said. Thats why I dont think this is something he spent time rehearsing.....though if anybody would sit in front of the mirror practicing a line like that it would be the Joker.