TDK vs SM2

Perfectly said, I agree with all of it!

Though, I don't remember the Ock backwards line.

Otto: "Intelligence is not a privilege it's a gift, and you use it for the good of mankind"

Peter: "You once spoke to me about intelligence. How it was a gift to be used for the good of mankind"
Otto: "A privilege"
 
Ah, that's weird indeed. Thank you for posting! :)
 
I hated Dunst in this. I liked the bit when Ock hits her.
 
Your criticisms towards Batman are a bit unfair IMO. Bruce Wayne always does something with his money to help Gotham (I'm talking about Bruce Wayne/Batman in general here, not just the Nolan version). Batman himself is responsible for taking out the trash. While Batman himself most certainly can inspire the people of Gotham in both good ways (i.e. Harvey) and bad (i.e. Joker), the main thing he specializes in is striking fear into the hearts of bad people. I forgot who said this, but I remember a DC writer saying once that "Superman is the force that guides society in the light and Batman is the force that takes out the trash in the dark" or something among those lines.

Well, yes. But what makes the trash? If you are going to really talk about cause and effect (something that is brought up for Joker storylines or maybe The Long Halloween, but by and large is ignored in comicdom), everyday "trash" tends to fluctuate on the state of the city.

Even at its most basic level, why is Metropolis, which is drawn to be so bright, shiny and futuristic, free of most everyday crime in comic depictions while Gotham, which is drawn to be dark, dirty and malnourished in civic duty by a corrupt police force controlled by the mob, seen as overrun with crime?

Both acknowledge there is more to the problem than just hoods on the street. Nolan attempted to put Batman somewhat in a proximity where those questions could be asked and make Batman answer them in a way that was still heroic, just with an eye on a bigger picture. You don't have to ground your story like that, but if you do, I appreciate doing so in such a thoughtful way.

It is the difference between Nolan's approach and Snyder's in MOS. Snyder went after that somber, mythic tone with a grounded "realism" that Nolan captured, but he didn't really pay attention to the details of what the consequences would be for his character. Okay, Superman's existence apparently means the entire destruction of downtown Metropolis in free-for-all. How do people react? How does Superman react to all the death and destruction? How does the city respond to losing thousands of people? It doesn't, because Snyder goes back to the status quo of Clark Kent at the Daily Planet without an explanation or a reaction to all the devastation beyond a make out session.

I know this is rambling, but the astute attention to these details is why Nolan's Batman can seem so authentic in his context and MOS can seem so awkward in its grim, but very cartoonish setting. If that makes sense.
 
Honestly, trying for some kind of dubious social justice explanation for why Gotham is so screwed up doesn't really work. The corruption is kind of top to bottom. There's a reason I can totally buy various supernatural explanations for why Gotham is terrible, the place *is* terrible on a rather excessive level.

Also, Batman spent his early days largely focused on fighting organized crime, not random poor guys stealing bread from storefronts. The result was Batman breaking the backs of organized crime in the city. It just so happens that the costumed madmen then moved in and started doing crazy stuff.
 
Supernatural? That seems more dubious than social justice unless we're going for the Burton theme where women can be resurrected by cats.

I agree that there is a whole fallout from the death of Maroni/all the gangsters and the rise of the Joker in TDK that we did not see. However, if Gotham is supposed to be a real-ish city, there has to be root problems that cause its corruption, poverty, etc. Having Batman address those in a more macro way makes him seem smarter and gives his mission more of a defined purpose. Otherwise, it is s a psychological crusade to eradicate all crime, which is impossible. Of course, that it is a valid interpretation of the character where he can never let it go.

However, actually trying to address why Gotham is overrun with criminality and finding a way to fix it is an interesting approach, especially in Nolan's grounded Gotham. Otherwise, you do end up with a rich man who goes on patrol every night to beat up random poor people. This isn't the case in a more Expressionist or theatrical Gotham where there is almost a mythic level to crime. But if you try to set in a near proximity to our world, addressing these details that are usually skirted by comics can be very interesting.
 
I wish Peter had grown out of being shy and awkward
 
Actually I just rewatched Spider Man and Spider Man 2. 2 is the stronger film, but I think I always enjoyed Spider Man better because of Gobby
 
I prefer Spider-Man 2 over the Dark Knight. It has superhero battles and achieves so many milestones for the genre itself.

The Dark Knight took a safe approach by presenting non-powered characters just reacting in a Post 9/11 world. Idiots never even thought of the RICO Act until halfway through the film.
 
Now this is a battle where I can actually come down on Raimi's side even though I don't think much of the film. SM2 for me.
 
Not really a close poll, is it? The margin is surprising, given that Nolan-bashing seems to be the "cool" thing these days. TDK by miles for me, but I never really got into Spider-man, even as a kid. It's weird that he can walk on walls with gloves on, but he doesn't deliver a paralyzing bite to animals and suck out their innards.
 
This isn't the first time fans have addressed this topic. It gets tiresome.
 
Well, it's the first time I've addressed it, so excuse me all to Hell, oh mighty magnificent one. I'll try to sleep tonight, but it will be difficult knowing that I've made a statement you find tiresome. Sheesh.
 
Wow you must really hate TDK lol

I do. I've rarely had my intelligence so insulted as when I saw TDK. It's as bad as The Prestige, which is by the same guy. Hmm, I wonder if a pattern is emerging?
 
^ You have awful taste.

No, he has his own taste. ;)

I'm not the biggest fan of Nolan either(But The Prestige is my favorite film of his). Despite his "different" views you can't help but love grumpy ol kedrell. :p
 
I do. I've rarely had my intelligence so insulted as when I saw TDK. It's as bad as The Prestige, which is by the same guy. Hmm, I wonder if a pattern is emerging?

You and every other person who's lived a few more years than others. But we're supposed to leave our disbelief at the door. That memory condition in Memento isn't possible, anymore than the one in 50 First Dates. You just go with the B.S. because you're trying to escape reality.
 
No, he has his own taste. ;)

I'm usually all for that. Last couple of days though, I've had a shorter fuse (in general).

I'm not the biggest fan of Nolan either(But The Prestige is my favorite film of his). Despite his "different" views you can't help but love grumpy ol kedrell. :p
I enjoy Wilford Brimley. That's as far as I can go.

You and every other person who's lived a few more years than others.
But we're supposed to leave our disbelief at the door. That memory condition in Memento isn't possible, anymore than the one in 50 First Dates. You just go with the B.S. because you're trying to escape reality.
It's called anterograde amnesia. It very much exists. The movie was widely praised by psychologists for having one of the most (of course not totally, for drama's sake) accurate depictions of the disorder on film. So there's that.
 
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It's called anterograde amnesia. It very much exists. The movie was widely praised by psychologists for having one of the most (of course not totally, for drama's sake) accurate depictions of the disorder on film. So there's that.

The condition is not as extreme as that. Doctors have stated that. That's where it became far-fetched.
 

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