Telltale's The Walking Dead

[Upset Spideyfan]

I've been playing the Xbox version and yeesh. These load times between people talking and the camera just moving around really kill the mood.

 

[Havok83]

I finished the game last night and wow, what a wild ride!

Spoiler

I couldn't cut my hand off. They didn't give you much time to think it over and my first instinct was no but instantly regretted that and hoped I had done it to give myself hope. Dissappointed to here that that would have changed nothing

When Ben fell from the building, my first thought was "oh boy, there he goes f--ing things up again. Can we just accept that he just died and move on" I didn't not expect Kenny and Lee to go down there and attempt to save him. I wish you had a choice on leaving him, bc I would have. Sucks that Kenny dies bc of him. Glad I didn't ask him to take in Clem.

The guy on the phone being the owner of the station wagon way back in episode 2....was not expecting that to come back and bite me. I thought maybe he was like the brother of the guy Lee killed. That final scene was intense, especially when Clem came out and blew his brains out.

Lee's death killed me. I never get emotional with video games but that one got to me. I really felt bad for her and Lee as well. Earlier in the game, I had asked Christa and Omid to take her bc I thought it would be best if she had a surrogate mother and father, although I thought Kenny would be good to her and take her in as a replacement for Duck

WTH is Molly? I really expected her to show up here and was disappointed that she didn't. I also didn't like that there was no closure to Omid and Christa. So Im guessing it doesn't matter where you tell them to go? I told them to look for me downstairs at the streets and assumed they were eaten.

The whole plotline with the boat and the survivors was dropped. Christa and Omid were all about going to the boat and me meeting them by nightfall but once they were taken from the shed, they drop that and stay by my side. Im surprised they had none of the characters try to catch up to the survivors and stop them before they could sail off, given the urgency

I really wasn't expecting the ending we got bc I thought there would be more closure. What happened with the boat survivors, Omid & Christa, Molly, and Clementine in the future. With all the choices you made which said Clem would remember that, I expected that we would see her fate change depending on how you trained her I had just assumed Season 2 would be a brand new set of characters and new story.

Anyways here are my choices that popped up

Im also disappointed reading some of the earlier comments that the story doesn't deviate regardless of your decisions in Episode 5. If one character isn't present, then another is simply inserted in their place. Lame. I understood the need to maintain the structure in Episodes 1-4 to keep it all cohesive, but being that this was the end, it was a chance to go in completely different directions and not really worry about that too much. Shame they didn't.

One thing I didn't like was how you seemingly had unlimited bullet until this final episode when they made it a plot point. I think it would have been more intense if you had to actually worry about that bc I actually did while playing the game not realizing it would even matter until a little while in. Especially in that world, ammo should be limited unless you run into and you should make the decision to take more of a risk going for a melee kill or play it safe and shoot from a distance

Episode 5 was great, but I thought it could have been so much better and bigger than it actually was, especially since it was the finale. I think I would say Episode 2 was my favorite, maybe followed by 4

 

[Spider-Vader]

I finished the game today &.... Jesus Christ, the last episode was an emotional roller coaster.

Spoiler

I started crying when Clementine shot that bastard that caused of all this mayhem. & then the tears came into full force during the last scene. This was the first time a game has ever made me cry, I came close in Mass Effect 3, but this was the game that made me do it. A TV show has never brought me this much emotion, but this little game did. Good job, Telltale.

I can't wait until Season 2. Though, I wish they would have wrapped up the story of Clem/Omid/Christa, so that the next season could focus on a new group of survivors. I don't think I can handle seeing poor Clem going along without Lee.

The Walking Dead isn't my GOTY (ME3 is), but it's pretty damn close. I'd give it a 9/10. I hope Telltale keeps up the great work with season 2.

 

[E-Man]

"You called her a ***** when you first met."

 

[Soapy]

I did the same.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I checked around, I'm surprised I didn't find any sketches by Charlie Adlard of the video game cast. Figured somebody would have gotten one out of him by now at a con or something.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Finished it today, almost lost it at the end

 

[Matt]

I'd like to discuss this more in depth:

Spoiler

Lee handcuffs her in the back of the RV. There is some dialogue, then when you get to the blocked train, she ends up stealing the RV. She offers to take you and Clem with her (I agreed as I was very much on the outs with Kenny and my decision to not abandon her did not do me any favors and I was sympathetic to her and her emotional stress, even though I felt very bad for Carley), but when I went to get Clem, she just stole the RV anyway.

I personally think it would be really cool for Telltale to do some DLC exploring this. Maybe make an additional episode or two that is sort of an Elseworld tale of what happens if you go with Lilly (maybe Lee and Clem can encounter the Governor?). Personally, her stealing the RV was the most cheated that I felt throughout the game and the one time I felt that my decisions didn't matter. I had built a strong relationship with Lilly and the game gave me the choice to go with her, it should've let me follow through with it. I know it would be a pretty heavy branching point....but that is what we were promised.

Ever since I've made this post I've been kinda thinking about this. The first three episodes are all about the conflict between Kenny and Lilly. Then we finally get to make a relevant choice between the two, it is meaningless and plays out the same regardless. That kinda irks me. I really wish there was a more significant break in the story at this point.

 

[Havok83]

I'd like to discuss this more in depth:



Ever since I've made this post I've been kinda thinking about this. The first three episodes are all about the conflict between Kenny and Lilly. Then we finally get to make a relevant choice between the two, it is meaningless and plays out the same regardless. That kinda irks me. I really wish there was a more significant break in the story at this point.

the game really isnt as free and open with choice as it presents itself. I hope the second season isnt as restrictive now that they have a good formula down

 

[Soapy]

It's kind of criminal that at the beginning of every episode they say "Your choices shape the story." or something. The balls on those guys for putting it there when they know damn well its bull****.

 

[Brother Jack]

It's kind of criminal that at the beginning of every episode they say "Your choices shape the story." or something. The balls on those guys for putting it there when they know damn well its bull****.

They don't change the story very much if at all, but they do change Lee as a character and how you react to him. It's more of a character and player shift.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

I don't want to knock them too hard over that, especially when they are a smaller developer and the game is only $25. Its a thin line to walk between trying to keep enough control over the plot threads that they can continue to actually make the episode and offering the player at least the illusion of choice within their own story, the latter of which I think they do a really good job on especially in your first run through. I mean a Lee that smashes Larry's head in is a pretty different Lee than one who doesn't or even one who chooses to leave Lilly on the side of the road verses accepting her offer to abandon the group. I

I mean granted that stuff doesn't have you careening down a radically different game but it really is just a case of they can only make so much game. Episode 5 is probably the most divergent but it is also by far the shortest. There's a trade off inherent to their model and pricing and going by the response to the game, I think players understand that and that Telltale delivered on a significant feeling of agency, illusory or not. don't think it always a 100% worked, and that is why I wasn't awed by Ep3 like a lot of people but for the most part I thought there was a good compromise in letting me deal with how I approached events even if they were fixed or not.

 

[SolarTiger]

Spoiler

I don't want to knock them too hard over that, especially when they are a smaller developer and the game is only $25. Its a thin line to walk between trying to keep enough control over the plot threads that they can continue to actually make the episode and offering the player at least the illusion of choice within their own story, the latter of which I think they do a really good job on especially in your first run through. I mean a Lee that smashes Larry's head in is a pretty different Lee than one who doesn't or even one who chooses to leave Lilly on the side of the road verses accepting her offer to abandon the group. I

I mean granted that stuff doesn't have you careening down a radically different game but it really is just a case of they can only make so much game. Episode 5 is probably the most divergent but it is also by far the shortest. There's a trade off inherent to their model and pricing and going by the response to the game, I think players understand that and that Telltale delivered on a significant feeling of agency, illusory or not. don't think it always a 100% worked, and that is why I wasn't awed by Ep3 like a lot of people but for the most part I thought there was a good compromise in letting me deal with how I approached events even if they were fixed or not.

Good post. Even a huge game like ME3 struggled with the promise of divergent paths as the result of choices you make. At the end of the day, its hard for developers to deliver on these promises since it would require almost making two or more campaigns. For an Arcade game like TWD, I was mostly pleased with how they handled the "choices".

Ep3 was also the weak point of the series for me, don't know why I guess because it was a lot more slow and plodding then the others. Ep4 for me was the best, mainly because of Crawford.

 

[Soapy]

"Bu-bu-bu-but it's haaard." isn't an acceptable excuse to me. If developers can't deliver on the promise of divergent paths and making your choices matter then they shouldn't promise it. Or at maybe set their sights lower. I don't know.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I'm saying its not financially feasible to go and develop 2 games simultaneously, especially at budget title prices. There are deadlines to meet and costs to consider. The work doesn't just materialize, its not like there is a Make Game button that developers hit and that stuff comes pouring out.

If you're ever expecting something like a "Go with Lilly" path that totally changes the cast and setting then I'd say your holding out hope for a pipe dream honestly. There's certainly room for improvement, I think being allowed 1-2 divergent characters for example who can live or die (like they did with Doug/Carly) is very reasonable - but I'm never expecting to have some kind of a crazy alternate season 2 to somebody else.

 

[SolarTiger]

"Bu-bu-bu-but it's haaard." isn't an acceptable excuse to me. If developers can't deliver on the promise of divergent paths and making your choices matter then they shouldn't promise it. Or at maybe set their sights lower. I don't know.

I guess, but for an Arcade game I maybe let them off the hook a little. For big title games I'd agree that excuses shouldn't be made.

 

[Soapy]

I'm saying its not financially feasible to go and develop 2 games simultaneously, especially at budget title prices. There are deadlines to meet and costs to consider. The work doesn't just materialize, its not like there is a Make Game button that developers hit and that stuff comes pouring out.

If you're ever expecting something like a "Go with Lilly" path that totally changes the cast and setting then I'd say your holding out hope for a pipe dream honestly. There's certainly room for improvement, I think being allowed 1-2 divergent characters for example who can live or die (like they did with Doug/Carly) is very reasonable - but I'm never expecting to have some kind of a crazy alternate season 2 to somebody else.

I'm not talking about The Walking Dead specifically, but in general games that boast "choice" as a main feature and ostensibly offer divergent paths and outcomes.

I fully understand there are bottlenecks in the development pipeline that affect how much content can be generated. I'm not an idiot. All I'm saying is that until someone can figure out how to do the "choice and consequence" thing for real, I mean really do that concept justice, then they need to stop over promising and under delivering.

 

[Havok83]

I thought a game like Heavy Rain handled that better. Sure there are some segments where you are forced into a decision (especially in the beginning) but in that game depending on how you play, you could miss alot, which would alter the gaming experience. Like picking up on certain clues which cause you to go to different locations and interact with different people. Your main characters can die, which affects how other characters may have interacted with them later in the game. The final sequence plays out differently based on your decision and there are about 20 different endings, most of which vary drastically from the others. Im really interested in seeing what Quantic Dream do with Beyond bc they got a good formula which Im sure they are refining

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I'm not talking about The Walking Dead specifically, but in general games that boast "choice" as a main feature and ostensibly offer divergent paths and outcomes.

No company is ever going to put "Illusory Choice and Consequence!" on the front of the box. Its just not going to happen, especially when most players seem satisfied, even downright pleased with how TWD handled their choices which is ultimately the bottom line. The crowd that is calling out for wholly divergent paths and multiple outcomes or what have you is largely the message board crowd.

If I was in the position of choosing between saying "We offer choice and consequence!" as a selling point to our consumers of whom the majority are in turn satisfied verses not doing so because a few people on a message board felt like we didn't wholly deliver on that promise I know which one I would go with.

It doesn't mean that criticism is invalid but it might make it irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

All I'm saying is that until someone can figure out how to do the "choice and consequence" thing for real, I mean really do that concept justice, then they need to stop over promising and under delivering.

I'd say its already been done, Mass Effect 2 comes to mind which was a game that featured a climax that was directly influenced by your decisions throughout that game.

But that game was also the most self-contained of the 3, which was a complaint leveled against it by the message board crowd but therein lies the reason why its the best entry in the trilogy.

So I think it's important that we re-frame this complaint within the realm of the Import Save, which is ultimately the primary culprit here since the developer needs to get everyone to the same starting and ending point more or less for the next episode/entry whatever. The fact that the final state of the galaxy diverges so wildly in ME3, not just in terms of the endings but also in terms of what races may or may not even be extinct/doomed has made doing a sequel to that seemingly really freaking difficult.

Contrast that with season 2 of Walking Dead where there is one single ending state [BLACKOUT](Lee is dead, Omid/Christa and Clementine are alive)[/BLACKOUT] but they are consequently in an optimal position to continue that series.

That is simply the trade-off. Until production costs drastically decrease and I cannot overemphasize the drastically enough there, choice and consequence within the save import narrative is always going to be a pretty tenuous thing. Its just a technical limitation of the genre: you and I know that and the average consumer seems fine with it. So when I found out stuff like keeping Lilly on the bus didn't go and create an alternate episode 4/5 I tend not get Grrr about it. Its just the way it is at the moment, hopefully as tech evolves this will improve in the future.

 

[Matt]

Spoiler

I don't want to knock them too hard over that, especially when they are a smaller developer and the game is only $25. Its a thin line to walk between trying to keep enough control over the plot threads that they can continue to actually make the episode and offering the player at least the illusion of choice within their own story, the latter of which I think they do a really good job on especially in your first run through. I mean a Lee that smashes Larry's head in is a pretty different Lee than one who doesn't or even one who chooses to leave Lilly on the side of the road verses accepting her offer to abandon the group. I

I mean granted that stuff doesn't have you careening down a radically different game but it really is just a case of they can only make so much game. Episode 5 is probably the most divergent but it is also by far the shortest. There's a trade off inherent to their model and pricing and going by the response to the game, I think players understand that and that Telltale delivered on a significant feeling of agency, illusory or not. don't think it always a 100% worked, and that is why I wasn't awed by Ep3 like a lot of people but for the most part I thought there was a good compromise in letting me deal with how I approached events even if they were fixed or not.

The only choice that I really complain about is

Spoiler

leaving with Lilly, only because the first three episodes focus almost exclusively on the growing discontent between Kenny and Lilly and Lee's role in the middle. Lilly's offer to leave, after killing Carley in cold blood (or I suppose Doug...if anyone bothered saving Doug ), is a split second decision where everything comes to a head. Kenny vs Lilly, Kenny's brutal decision to kill Larry vs Lilly's murder in the heat of passion, Lilly's altruistic approach of what is best for the group and Kenny's focus on his family....both reflect different aspects of the world we now occupy and Lee has always been in the middle, and in that second you have to choose. I REALLY wish the game branched at that point just because it is the culmination of everything that episode 1-3 built to and the payoff is the same no matter what you choose.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

I think in retrospect they should have removed the Lilly offer, I will certainly agree on that, since it sets up this moment that doesn't come.

I mean honestly, I just would have had Lilly in tow for 4/5 if you kept her verses not if you didn't.

 

[Matt]

Spoiler

I think in retrospect they should have removed the Lilly offer, I will certainly agree on that, since it sets up this moment that doesn't come.

I mean honestly, I just would have had Lilly in tow for 4/5 if you kept her verses not if you didn't.

I think Lilly reflects the same problem as using Glenn in episode 1. Glenn was kind of shoe-horned in there because he is a popular character from the TV show and comics and it would ease the character into the world. But because of that, there is never a real sense of danger for Glenn (like there is every other character in the game) because we know where he ultimately ends up.

Lilly, while not as major of a character as Glenn, is a minor character in the books (the Governor's right hand woman of sorts). Because her fate was pre-determined, it is almost impossible to send Lee with her or have her follow Lee past episode 3 (further away from Woodbury).

I think if anything, Lilly ought to be a cautionary tale to not use the book's characters in future installments of the game. The game has become strong enough to stand on its own with all original characters.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Oddly Lilly got retconned as not being the one from the comic after the fact.

Which I think only goes to strengthen your point.

(From the wiki)

Upon the release of the Road to Woodbury novel, which features a different back-story for Lilly than the video game, the developer Telltale Games removed from the official website all references to Lilly being the same character from the comic series. Also, the in-game achievement that displays when Lilly leaves the group was changed from "Woodbury bound" to "What now?" This indicates that Telltale Games changed the game Lilly to be a different Lilly from the comics and novels after all, in an effort to keep all three mediums in the same canon.

 

[Soapy]

Spoiler

No company is ever going to put "Illusory Choice and Consequence!" on the front of the box. Its just not going to happen, especially when most players seem satisfied, even downright pleased with how TWD handled their choices which is ultimately the bottom line. The crowd that is calling out for wholly divergent paths and multiple outcomes or what have you is largely the message board crowd.

If I was in the position of choosing between saying "We offer choice and consequence!" as a selling point to our consumers of whom the majority are in turn satisfied with verses not doing so because a few people on a message board felt like we didn't wholly deliver on that promise I know which one I would go with.

It doesn't mean that criticism is invalid but it might make it irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

I can understand how people can look past the way they handled choice and consequence. Like I said before, I enjoyed The Walking Dead quite a bit despite that stuff. I can't however wrap my head around how anyone could be satisfied with it because there's barely anything there to be satisfied by. The only way I could understand it is if someone plays the game once and never talks about it with anyone or reads about it on the internet. I really don't get how anyone "in the know" can look at it and say, "Yep. I'm totally okay with that." Especially when every episode starts, they're deliberately deceiving the player by saying, "YOUR CHOICES TOTALLY MATTER YOU GUYS! WE PROMISE!" At least Bioware has the good sense not to make such grandiose claims in the games themselves and limit it to marketing fluff.

Maybe I'm just crazy or something, but I really don't think it's cool for developers to claim something is in their game when it isn't.

 

[Havok83]

I kinda agree as I struggled whether this would be my personal game of the year and then decided against it. Its a great title and made for an amazing game experience but seeing how little choice you actually have and how somethings which really should have caused things to steer in a different direction didnt, soured my final opinion of the product.