Action-Adventure Terminator: Dark Fate

[TheVileOne]

I always wanted to see a Terminator Future War movie. But Salvation sort of prevents that from happening ever again. If I was doing notes on that movie, I would've told them to do a page 1 rewrite and get rid of the Marcus character.

That's the problem. Salvation was about Marcus and the plot was always around Marcus from the very beginning. The rewrites simply changed the ending around so John doesn't die and John has a slightly bigger role. They needed to start over from scratch and jettison all the moronic Marcus ideas out.

The fact is that fans wanted to see a movie about John Connor fighting Terminators in the future. I the best thing they could've done was end the movie with John sending Kyle Reese back to the past and sort of closing the loop off from the films.

Grace functionally doesn't work. It's another retread of Marcus as a character. She's aware of the idea that you only have minutes to stop a Terminator or REV-9 even though there's only one true way to stop it which they don't even consider until the end. Bad writing bad storytelling.

Chris Stuckmann who is generally a more positive reviewer hated the film and also says the film basically takes a **** on the older fans with the prologue.

 

[samsnee]

Dark Fate's Tim Miller Helps Us Answer All Your Burning Terminator Questions

 

[TheVileOne]

Here's why the plot of the movie doesn't work:

Spoiler

Basically, the prologue sets up the idea that John Connor was not a savior and not necessary to defeat Skynet. That basically means the whole idea of, we have to protect such and such person to preserve humanity's victory int he future is basically pointless. So, if humanity or the resistance didn't need John Connor to protect the future from Terminators or Skynet, then the human resistance doesn't need Dani either to save humans from Legion. They basically have to just do what they did in the second film, prevent Legion from happening.

How are we supposed to be invested in saving or protecting Dani, if that's not really the crucial event that matters? If you can undo a possible post-apocalyptic future in other ways, without John or Dani, then their survival is not crucial to protect or ensure the future.

 

[Schlosser85]

If your only way forward with a franchise is to give a giant middle finger to the beloved and iconic original two installments and render them and the sacrifices therein completely pointless (Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 sacrificed themselves for nothing), then you don't have a way forward.

 

[Willi Berg]

Here's why the plot of the movie doesn't work:Spoiler

Spoiler

Basically, the prologue sets up the idea that John Connor was not a savior and not necessary to defeat Skynet. That basically means the whole idea of, we have to protect such and such person to preserve humanity's victory int he future is basically pointless. So, if humanity or the resistance didn't need John Connor to protect the future from Terminators or Skynet, then the human resistance doesn't need Dani either to save humans from Legion. They basically have to just do what they did in the second film, prevent Legion from happening.

How are we supposed to be invested in saving or protecting Dani, if that's not really the crucial event that matters? If you can undo a possible post-apocalyptic future in other ways, without John or Dani, then their survival is not crucial to protect or ensure the future.

But John Connor was needed.

Spoiler

Sarah and John were successful in T2 in preventing Skynet's victory (by getting rid of the chip and stopping Skynet's formation.) Sarah thought the whole thing was practically over. Maybe she let her guard down, so John ended up being killed a few years later, after the original Judgement Day had passed. Sarah didn't count on Skynet having sent multiple Terminators to the past.

And so because Skynet had been defeated in T2, another threat took over: Legion.

 

[TheVileOne]

But John Connor was needed.

Spoiler

Sarah and John were successful in T2 in preventing Skynet's victory (by getting rid of the chip and stopping Skynet's formation.) Sarah thought the whole thing was practically over. Maybe she let her guard down, so John ended up being killed a few years later, after the original Judgement Day had passed. Sarah didn't count on Skynet having sent multiple Terminators to the past.

And so because Skynet had been defeated in T2, another threat took over: Legion.

Spoiler

Except he wasn't because the new leader who united and led the human resistance was Dani.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Here's why the plot of the movie doesn't work:

Spoiler

Basically, the prologue sets up the idea that John Connor was not a savior and not necessary to defeat Skynet. That basically means the whole idea of, we have to protect such and such person to preserve humanity's victory int he future is basically pointless. So, if humanity or the resistance didn't need John Connor to protect the future from Terminators or Skynet, then the human resistance doesn't need Dani either to save humans from Legion. They basically have to just do what they did in the second film, prevent Legion from happening.

How are we supposed to be invested in saving or protecting Dani, if that's not really the crucial event that matters? If you can undo a possible post-apocalyptic future in other ways, without John or Dani, then their survival is not crucial to protect or ensure the future.

Sarah Connor just passed the torch to Dani.

Sarah Connor- Skynet is defeated but at the cost of John

Dani- Stopping Legion now with Sarah passing down all that she knows

 

[TheVileOne]

Sarah Connor just passed the torch to Dani.

Sarah Connor- Skynet is defeated but at the cost of John

Dani- Stopping Legion now with Sarah passing down all that she knows

Spoiler

Except they don't need Dani to make that all happen...at all.

 

[Willi Berg]

Spoiler

Except he wasn't because the new leader who united and led the human resistance was Dani.

Spoiler

Because John was now dead!

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

Because John was now dead!

So explain something to me.

Spoiler

If John is dead, and a new leader came up and led the fight anyway, then why is he still needed? John was not crucial to stopping Judgement Day or Skynet. His survival was irrelevant.

The key to stopping Nu-Judgement Day from Legion is NOT Dani. They simply need to take steps to stop it.

 

[Willi Berg]

So explain something to me.

Spoiler

If John is dead, and a new leader came up and led the fight anyway, then why is he still needed? John was not crucial to stopping Judgement Day or Skynet. His survival was irrelevant.

The key to stopping Nu-Judgement Day from Legion is NOT Dani. They simply need to take steps to stop it.

Spoiler

This is an alternate timeline because of what Sarah and John did in T2. They stopped Skynet. They had already achieved that. In the original timeline, future John and the Resistance were victorious. The problem was Skynet's last ditch effort to send Terminators to the past. Young John and Sarah stopped Judgement Day from happening. So this created an alternate future with Dani and Legion.This alternate timeline would not be happening if not for John and Sarah doing what they did in T2 and stopping Skynet.

In their timelines, both John and Dani did grow up and become leaders. Of course with time travel and interference, the past can be changed: e.g. Skynet was stopped from happening in T2. Of course things can be altered and messed up from the original timeline.

 

[Willi Berg]

I think after all the mess these sequels created to the original timeline, the only thing I want to see is them going back to the original timeline, the original characters. Why try to keep it going with new characters etc. Remember how excited people were when Neil Blomkamp was going to make an Alien sequel with an older Ripley, and to forget the sequels after 'Aliens', and have Hicks and Newt still alive? A lot of fans were excited about that idea. That would be good for Terminator too. To go back to what it was originally and respect what made it work in the first place, to give it some closure after all the sequels messed it up. But, like Blomkamp's Alien 5, we will likely never see anything like that.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Here's why the plot of the movie doesn't work:

Spoiler

Basically, the prologue sets up the idea that John Connor was not a savior and not necessary to defeat Skynet. That basically means the whole idea of, we have to protect such and such person to preserve humanity's victory int he future is basically pointless. So, if humanity or the resistance didn't need John Connor to protect the future from Terminators or Skynet, then the human resistance doesn't need Dani either to save humans from Legion. They basically have to just do what they did in the second film, prevent Legion from happening.

How are we supposed to be invested in saving or protecting Dani, if that's not really the crucial event that matters? If you can undo a possible post-apocalyptic future in other ways, without John or Dani, then their survival is not crucial to protect or ensure the future.

Hmm I dunno.

Spoiler

Seemed to me John wasn’t pointless. They just accomplished their goal in T2. There was no Skynet or future war resulting from it. The future with Legion was an entirely separate ordeal.

 

[Zorro]

Skynet obviously found John to be important and a serious threat but there had to be other major threats within humanity in the original future than just him being THE military leader where remaining humans in the resistance in the whole world saw him as the main savior of the world like jesus.

Dani could have been an important lieutenant to John like the ones killed in T3 but I guess it wouldn't make sense without John existing in the future anymore

 

[Schlosser85]

So when did Carl come back in time? If he was sent back to 1992, what was he doing during the events of T2? And Skynet should have ceased to exist, if not when Dyson blew up Cyberdyne (and himself), then the moment the arm of the first Terminator, the chip, and the second T-800 burned up in the factory.

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

The implication states that Skynet sent back several Terminators around the 1990s to kill John.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think after all the mess these sequels created to the original timeline, the only thing I want to see is them going back to the original timeline, the original characters. Why try to keep it going with new characters etc. Remember how excited people were when Neil Blomkamp was going to make an Alien sequel with an older Ripley, and to forget the sequels after 'Aliens', and have Hicks and Newt still alive? A lot of fans were excited about that idea. That would be good for Terminator too. To go back to what it was originally and respect what made it work in the first place, to give it some closure after all the sequels messed it up. But, like Blomkamp's Alien 5, we will likely never see anything like that.

Genisys already tried that. That was Genisys' whole premise.

 

[Schlosser85]

So Skynet couldn’t have sent Carl back any later than circa T2, and then he takes years to find John?

 

[Zorro]

Carl looking for John Connor during T2's events is an adventure waiting to be told in a comic

 

[Willi Berg]

Genisys already tried that. That was Genisys' whole premise.

I don't mean it like Genisys, with twists about John Connor, new actors replacing original actors etc. I mean a more human story, following what happened to Sarah (Linda Hamilton) and John (Edward Furlong.) Original actors. To wrap the story up, not to try and reboot the franchise.

 

[Ninjablade]

So Skynet couldn’t have sent Carl back any later than circa T2, and then he takes years to find John?

They don’t state when he was sent back so we don’t know how long it took him to find them. He’s dressed weather appropriate, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was only a couple of days and he landed nearby.

Spoiler

The movie states that Skynet sent multiple terminator back all at once and they’re basically scattered across time. I guess even to points that would’ve been after the original Judgement Day since Sarah has spent the 20 year period between this and John’s death destroying them.

 

[Alien Anal]

Spoiler

The implication states that Skynet sent back several Terminators around the 1990s to kill John.

So Sarah was receiving text messages from Carl in the 1990s? That doesnt sound right

 

[Zorro]

So Sarah was receiving text messages from Carl in the 1990s? That doesnt sound right

No, that happened years later

 

[TheVileOne]

So Sarah was receiving text messages from Carl in the 1990s? That doesnt sound right

If I'm remembering it right:

Spoiler

* Carl kills John in the 90s because Skynet had sent other Terminators back that Sarah and John weren't aware of
* Carl without orders grows a conscious and feels guilt for what he did.
* Carl starts sending text messages to Sarah "For John." That way he has a purpose and so does Sarah. Sarah hunting terminators gave her a purpose again.

That said, all these time travel rules are incredibly convoluted and iffy.

 

[Alien Anal]

No, that happened years later

Sarah describes that she witnesses the time bubble appear along with the Terminator. So this to me implies the Terminators that Sarah is hunting are appearing in the early mid 2000s. Why would Skynet send T800s past 1997?