Action-Adventure Terminator: Dark Fate

[Alien Anal]

Why would Skynet send terminators post 1997? Surely from its perspective they nuke the world in 97 and just need to take out John prior to that time?

 

[TheGuy]

'Terminator: Dark Fate' Puts Franchise on Ice, Faces $120M-Plus Loss

A storied Hollywood film franchise has been terminated — at least for the foreseeable future.

Terminator: Dark Fate bombed in its global box office debut over the weekend, grossing just $29 million in the U.S., well behind expectations.

Nor was its performance much better overseas, where it has earned $94.6 million to date, including a lackluster China launch of $28 million, for a global total of $123.6 million.

Dark Fate faces losses of $120 million-plus for partners Skydance Media, Paramount Pictures and 20th Century Fox, which each put up 30 percent of the $185 million budget (Disney, which now owns the Fox film studio, will absorb the loss), sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. China's Tencent has a 10 percent stake.

The red ink could end up at $130 million if the pic doesn't hold internationally; conversely, the losses could be closer to $110 million if it does have strong legs offshore, sources add.

While the losses will be spread around, Dark Fate's surprisingly poor performance is a blow for David Ellison's Skydance, which has spent tens of millions trying to reboot the James Cameron-created series that first hit the big screen in 1984. It's also a blow for Paramount, which needs franchises.

Ellison’s first attempt was 2015's Terminator Genisys, released in partnership with Warner Bros. The film, which cost more than $150 million to produce before marketing, grossed $440.6 million globally, so it wasn’t a financial disaster. It earned more than $100 million in China alone, but faltered in the U.S., where it topped out at $89.8 million.

Terminator Genisys was supposed to be the first of a trilogy but was reviled by critics. Ellison quickly scrapped the two follow-ups and went back to the drawing board. He arranged for Cameron to come back and produce a movie that would be a direct sequel to the first two films — The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgment Day, both of which were directed by Cameron — as well as helped arrange for the return of original series stars Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The R-rated Dark Fate was directed by Deadpool helmer Tim Miller. Mackenzie Davis, Natalia Reyes, Gabriel Luna and Diego Boneta also star.

Box office analysts say the movie's poor opening is a reflection of complete IP failure. (Insiders at Paramount and Skydance don't disagree.)

"It is time to let this franchise finally go to the great beyond," says Eric Handler of MKM Partners.

Adds Jeff Bock of Exhibitor Relations, "This is definitely the end of the line for the Terminator franchise in its current iteration. That said, IPs are harder to kill off than Jason Vorhees these days. So, expect a new series in five years on CBS All Access. Probably animated this time."

None of the companies involved would comment on the losses, but sources close to Skydance say there are certainly no plans for another film at this point. Ellison acquired the rights to Terminator from his sister, producer Megan Ellison, who bought them for a reported $20 million in 2011.

Following the first two films, neither Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (2003) nor Terminator Salvation (2009) were able to reboot the film series, followed by Genisys. Analysts say any company would have tried again, considering the franchise mentality permeating the Hollywood studio system.

"The goodwill and brand equity created by the first two Terminator films was arguably undone by the subsequent pre-Dark Fate installments, which may have negatively impacted audience interest in this latest chapter in the series," says Paul Dergarabedian of Comscore.

Dark Fate is the second pricey miss in a row for Paramount and Skydance, following Ang Lee's Gemini Man.

Skydance is Paramount's financing partner on pics including the Mission: Impossible series and the upcoming Top Gun reboot. Separately, Skydance sold Michael Bay's big-budget 6 Underground, starring Ryan Reynolds, to Netflix for a reported $150 million-plus.

Netflix and Skydance are also making The Old Guard, an action pic directed by Gina Prince-Bythewood and starring Charlize Theron, KiK Layne, Marwan Kenzari, Matthias Schoenaerts and Chiwetel Ejiofor. The pic, based on the comic book of the same name, is currently filming.

 

[Web-Head]

that’s why I question hollywood execs decision process, sure there are a lot of recognizable IP’s but what money is there to be made if they constantly bomb and loose money and the quality dips severely? I get Star Wars because that is garunteed atleast a billion each time out unless your solo but just show some creativeness. The last creative year hollywood saw was 1999, go look at the films that came that year my god.

Jurassic World and pretty much all of the Disney remakes are making billions too.

 

[Gothamsknight]

So is this worth seeing or not really?

 

[Prettyricky]

Jurassic World and pretty much all of the Disney remakes are making billions too.

yeah which boggles my mind because while they certainly make bank there is talk atleast on the internet that a lot don’t like the retread.

 

[Web-Head]

yeah which boggles my mind because while they certainly make bank there is talk atleast on the internet that a lot don’t like the retread.

Mostly just a vocal minority. A lot of the general audience enjoys them and it shows.

 

[Detective Conan]

So is this worth seeing or not really?

In theaters? Eh, probably not. I recommend rewatching the first two movies and waiting for this to be available for rent. This isn’t a great movie. Its merely a passable & forgettable one, and banks on the nostalgia of the old ones. Salvation I’d argue is the better movie in terms of plot and concept as it’s not rehashing the tired, “terminator comes from a distant future to kill its target in the past” plot and it’s doing something new.

Now in terms of revitalizing a once dead franchise, this isn’t in the same league as Creed or Fury Road( or hell even Trek 09’). This didn’t bring a franchise back from the dead, it only made it deader than it ever was before, and by the looks of the box office it looks like we may have seen the last of Skynet. Terminator really won’t be back—at least not in theaters for a long, long, long time if ever.

Rest In Peace, Terminator. You should have gone to movie rehab after T2, but at least the silver lining with your cinematic death is that you can finally be laid to rest, and they can pull the plug.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[Hunter Rider]

yeah which boggles my mind because while they certainly make bank there is talk atleast on the internet that a lot don’t like the retread.

The net often inflates things as those that don't like something tend to yell louder and longer than those that like it, nothing fuels a poster like negativity and anger.

 

[Frodo]

Movies that try to capitalize on nostalgia all fall into the same trap of just retreading what the fanbase knows and expects or the basic checklist.

franchise’s in recent years that I can think of that have fallen victim to this:

terminator
Alien/ prometheus
Star Wars
Star Trek
Jurassic world
Predator
Robocop
All disney live action remakes

im sure Im forgetting others but its the same crap of retreading things we know instead of new creative ideas and new franchises. Marvel is the only studio the last ten years doing and trying new things.

What's happening in Hollywood now ,is similar to what happened in the 90s and early 00's, when studios attempted to appeal to baby boomer audiences by remaking old tv series from the 50s and 60s into movies.

You had a whole spate of them such as The Flintstones, Addams Family, Wild Wild West, Car 54 where are you, Lost in Space, Maverick, The Avengers ( Uk series), The Honeymooners, The Brady Bunch, Bewitched , etc.

Today you have studios reviving 1980s properties to appeal to genXer's.

 

[8ulk87]

So is this worth seeing or not really?

Its not a bad movie but its nothing special. Wait for home video release i guess.

 

[The Shape]

I think the problem with the Terminator franchise is that the franchise has never been allowed to lay dormant long enough (at least since T3) to build the necessary hype/anticipation for an eventual sequel/reboot event film. They've been cranking out these things every few years and Arnold has always been involved in some way (including his CGI double in Salvation that was advertised at the time). Aside from the die-hard fans, there hasn't been much reason for the general audience to get jacked up about a new take on the Terminator mythos because, at this point, it doesn't register as a "special event" or "must-see movie".

If Arnold had completely stepped away from the franchise after T3, and especially if films like Salvation and Genisys never happened, the return of Arnold and Linda Hamilton in a new Terminator film that acts as a sequel to T2 (with James Cameron's involvement) might have been a much bigger deal -- similar to Jamie Lee Curtis returning in a new Halloween sequel (with John Carpenter's involvement) that brought the franchise back to basics and gave the fans and public all the things they originally loved about the Halloween franchise. Halloween 2018 was a very big deal partially because a Halloween movie hadn't been made since 2009 (a nearly 10 year gap) and JLC hadn't appeared in the franchise since Halloween Resurrection in 2002. Even then, very few people outside of the hardcore fans saw that film, so most people remember JLC's last fight against Michael Myers being in 1998's H20.

If Terminator film had the chance to build hype like that and come out at the right time (80's throwbacks are IN right now), things may have been different. But the whole trajectory of this franchise has been ****ed for years.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[DarkKnight88]

I think the problem with the Terminator franchise is that the franchise has never been allowed to lay dormant long enough (at least since T3) to build the necessary hype/anticipation for an eventual sequel/reboot event film. They've been cranking out these things every few years and Arnold has always been involved in some way (including his CGI double in Salvation that was advertised at the time). Aside from the die-hard fans, there hasn't been much reason for the general audience to get jacked up about a new take on the Terminator mythos because, at this point, it doesn't register as a "special event" or "must-see movie".

If Arnold had completely stepped away from the franchise after T3, and especially if films like Salvation and Genisys never happened, the return of Arnold and Linda Hamilton in a new Terminator film that acts as a sequel to T2 (with James Cameron's involvement) might have been a much bigger deal -- similar to Jamie Lee Curtis returning in a new Halloween sequel (with John Carpenter's involvement) that brought the franchise back to basics and gave the fans and public all the things they originally loved about the Halloween franchise. Halloween 2018 was a very big deal partially because a Halloween movie hadn't been made since 2009 (a nearly 10 year gap) and JLC hadn't appeared in the franchise since Halloween Resurrection in 2002. Even then, very few people outside of the hardcore fans saw that film, so most people remember JLC's last fight against Michael Myers being in 1998's H20.

If Terminator film had the chance to build hype like that and come out at the right time (80's throwbacks are IN right now), things may have been different. But the whole trajectory of this franchise has been ****ed for years.

1000 times this.

 

[samsnee]

In theaters? Eh, probably not. I recommend rewatching the first two movies and waiting for this to be available for rent. This isn’t a great movie. Its merely a passable & forgettable one, and banks on the nostalgia of the old ones. Salvation I’d argue is the better movie in terms of plot and concept as it’s not rehashing the tired, “terminator comes from a distant future to kill its target in the past” plot and it’s doing something new.

Now in terms of revitalizing a once dead franchise, this isn’t in the same league as Creed or Fury Road( or hell even Trek 09’). This didn’t bring a franchise back from the dead, it only made it deader than it ever was before, and by the looks of the box office it looks like we may have seen the last of Skynet. Terminator really won’t be back—at least not in theaters for a long, long, long time if ever.

Rest In Peace, Terminator. You should have gone to movie rehab after T2, but at least the silver lining with your cinematic death is that you can finally be laid to rest, and they can pull the plug.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree about Salvation being the better movie. It may have had a better idea for a movie, but the execution was pure trash. Worthington is a charisma-less black hole that I didn't care what happened to him. Bale either whispered or yelled his way through the movie. The only good thing about that movie was Anton Yelchin (RIP) as Reese. If they had made a movie with him as the lead, it would have been so much better (minus the cliche kid who doesn't speak)

 

[I Am The Knight]

Christian Bale at the height of his popularity couldn’t open this franchise in 2009. It’s dead.

The best to come out of Salvation was the Bale rant. Very professional.

 

[kguillou]

Does the Terminator brand even mean anything to people anymore? Besides those of us who grew up in the 80s/90s who obviously hold it near and dear, do the 2000’s babies care about this franchise? This opening weekend seems to tell me ‘no,’

 

[Brother Jack]

The problem with the Terminator franchise is that the story ended with T2 in such a complete way that every subsequent attempt to follow up on it has to basically undo it and/or remake it. The causality loop with the T-800 and the creation of Skynet was closed in T2. Terminator Salvation is not a great movie by any means, but it at least tried to do something different, as a kind of alternate history showing the machine war. Everything else has been too derivative and convoluted.

 

[DarkKnight88]

It’s a difficult question because I think that could be said for a number of franchises. The Halloween brand was dead a decade ago.

it’s what’s been said earlier, you can make people care but they have to miss it a bit. Had this been the first Terminator movie since 2003, things could’ve been different.

 

[Prettyricky]

The problem with the Terminator franchise is that the story ended with T2 in such a complete way that every subsequent attempt to follow up on it has to basically undo it and/or remake it. The causality loop with the T-800 and the creation of Skynet was closed in T2. Terminator Salvation is not a great movie by any means, but it at least tried to do something different, as a kind of alternate history showing the machine war. Everything else has been too derivative and convoluted.

Salvation would have worked if they tightened up the story a bit more and introduced the plasma/laser weapons. I really liked the mad max feel and look to it but the story and futuristic weaponry was missing. Bale was a great lead and the idea of T-800 coming online sooner was interesting but underdeveloped and the young actor who passed away in real life was a perfect Kyle Reese.

 

[Prettyricky]

What's happening in Hollywood now ,is similar to what happened in the 90s and early 00's, when studios attempted to appeal to baby boomer audiences by remaking old tv series from the 50s and 60s into movies.

You had a whole spate of them such as The Flintstones, Addams Family, Wild Wild West, Car 54 where are you, Lost in Space, Maverick, The Avengers ( Uk series), The Honeymooners, The Brady Bunch, Bewitched , etc.

Today you have studios reviving 1980s properties to appeal to genXer's.

I still go back to 1999 as the last great innovative year, just off the top we had the matrix, fight club and the sixth sense

 

[James.B]

'Terminator: Dark Fate' spoiler: That John Connor twist was James Cameron's idea

 

[Zorro]

James Cameron done goofed up with that idea!

 

[Ninjablade]

Can't say I care where the idea came from because it's still a bad one and poorly written in the film.

Also a pretty good example of how Cameron really couldn't give less of a damn about this franchise, so his words mean nothing.

 

[Prettyricky]

Can't say I care where the idea came from because it's still a bad one and poorly written in the film.

Also a pretty good example of how Cameron really couldn't give less of a damn about this franchise, so his words mean nothing.

I stopped believing that man the day that genysis came out saying how great it was.