Action-Adventure Terminator: Dark Fate

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Count me as another who has a soft spot for T3. It was better than Salvation and Genysis for me and probably on par with Dark Fate movie wise. He latter just pissed more people off with some of its story choices.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually try to continue this franchise through streaming. Just like Alien.

 

[henzINNIT]

Controversial opinion, but I don't think the future setting is good enough tor really explore. Terminator is essentially a time travel story, and a focus on the future setting takes away from that. One of the things I loved about Sarah Connor Chronicles is that it expanded the use of time travel beyond the whole kill/save John Connor dynamic. Terminators and Resistance members were coming back to essentially prep for the future war, setting up supplies while also attempting to change/assure the future. It was also good to see how going back to where life was better affected the humans coming back.

I also loved how it picked up on a few small tidbits from 2 and 3, and was starting to expand on it. Why was Skynet trying to prevent its creations from gaining sentience and why the T-X even existed. Connor was not likely commandeering enough Terminators to require the existence of a model designed to fight other machines. In SCC, there is a breakaway, rogue group of machines, represented by a T1000 that went into the past to try to create a more humane Skynet AI. It was a fun new wrinkle in the war.

I also enjoyed the bit with a Terminator accidentally going back 90 years before the date he was going to attack his target. So, he robs banks to get capital, creates a building company, utilizing minority labor treated fairly, and builds the building with him in it where he sleeps till the time of his target.

The Terminator franchise is ripe for some great hard sci fi content. I think it could be able to be as good as the 12 Monkeys show.

I too have mixed feelings about a simple future-set story. I think I said here somewhere that the series is built on the hook of 'the battle for the future is fought in the present', the time travel is a core component of the story. From the very first film, the future war was essentially backstory. Humanity fought back, and humanity won. There is not a tremendous amount of story there, just some admittedly cool visuals.

This series is caught in a bind, the impending future is a ticking clock that your average franchise does not have to contend with. We're 25 years past the doomsday date by now. We're close to catching up with the 'distant' future of 2029, and nearly 40 years removed from vision of the future the series is built on. It's become increasingly difficult to update. Dark Fate's attempts to reinvent things were mostly met with groans, but I kind of sympathise because I don't really know how you thread the needle between pushing forward and using Terminator's increasingly retro iconography.

 

[Vaibow]

I too have mixed feelings about a simple future-set story. I think I said here somewhere that the series is built on the hook of 'the battle for the future is fought in the present', the time travel is a core component of the story. From the very first film, the future war was essentially backstory. Humanity fought back, and humanity won. There is not a tremendous amount of story there, just some admittedly cool visuals.

This series is caught in a bind, the impending future is a ticking clock that your average franchise does not have to contend with. We're 25 years past the doomsday date by now. We're close to catching up with the 'distant' future of 2029, and nearly 40 years removed from vision of the future the series is built on. It's become increasingly difficult to update. Dark Fate's attempts to reinvent things were mostly met with groans, but I kind of sympathise because I don't really know how you thread the needle between pushing forward and using Terminator's increasingly retro iconography.

Not a tremendous amount of story about humanity winning a war?

Either way, my reboot is 1. the future war, as it happens, seeing soldiers sent back, hearing t-800's were sent back, scrambling to find historical evidence to help plot where to send their soldiers to, one guy is online, scrolling news articles from the past for any clues. Waiting to see if it was a success, the reality of never really knowing either. We see why Kyle is chosen, how John treats him knowing who he is, without Kyle knowing.
2. movie from the moment Kyle arrives set in the 80s, a cat and mouse chase, race against time.
3rd stopping sky net but not really, to realising it's inevitable.

I feel a limited series Is best.

 

[henzINNIT]

Not a tremendous amount of story about humanity winning a war?

Not really, no. We already know what happens, the war was resolved by the start of the first movie and it's fairly straight-forward. Bombs drop, humanity enslaved, John Connor rises to lead them to victory. The future war was window dressing, set up for the actual plot about time-travelling assassins.

The war is alluring for us fans because it looks cool, but there isn't much story there. I would assume that's why it has barely been explored despite so many attempts at new sequels.

 

[Vaibow]

Not really, no. We already know what happens, the war was resolved by the start of the first movie and it's fairly straight-forward. Bombs drop, humanity enslaved, John Connor rises to lead them to victory. The future war was window dressing, set up for the actual plot about time-travelling assassins.

The war is alluring for us fans because it looks cool, but there isn't much story there. I would assume that's why it has barely been explored despite so many attempts at new sequels.

So I guess we also know what happens with time travelling assassins, as we've seen it what... 5 times? But I guess a 6th time out the bat will be a winner.

No one wants to see an adult John Connor? sending his team back in time, second guessing skynet? the ptsd of something so horrific for a child, that we learn about via campfire story? No one want to see an army of t-800's and alike attacking humans as they fight back? A few aboirted missions, coming back from the past telling of the horror or success? Too bad I guess.

 

[Alien Anal]

Not really, no. We already know what happens, the war was resolved by the start of the first movie and it's fairly straight-forward. Bombs drop, humanity enslaved, John Connor rises to lead them to victory. The future war was window dressing, set up for the actual plot about time-travelling assassins.

The war is alluring for us fans because it looks cool, but there isn't much story there. I would assume that's why it has barely been explored despite so many attempts at new sequels.

We also know how most films based on true stories end but if made well then we don't mind. It doesn't need to just be the story of Connor and Kyle.

 

[henzINNIT]

So I guess we also know what happens with time travelling assassins, as we've seen it what... 5 times? But I guess a 6th time out the bat will be a winner.

No one wants to see an adult John Connor? sending his team back in time, second guessing skynet? the ptsd of something so horrific for a child, that we learn about via campfire story? No one want to see an army of t-800's and alike attacking humans as they fight back? A few aboirted missions, coming back from the past telling of the horror or success? Too bad I guess.

John Connor got progressively less interesting every moment he appeared. Like the war itself, he's alluring to fans but only a thinly drawn savior character used to set up the actual story. Future John was at his peak when he was described by Kyle, or in a wordless cameo in T2. Young John in T2 was interesting because of how he contrasted the man we knew he'd become. T3's John was a less successful attempt at the same thing. By Salvation, it was abundantly clear that John as a fully formed character is not that deep, infinitely more compelling as a mysterious figure. He has insider knowledge and the baggage associated with it. That might be something, if not for dealing with that stuff excellently already with Sarah.

'Fighting skynet' makes for some fun sequences. Not a story.

We also know how most films based on true stories end but if made well then we don't mind. It doesn't need to just be the story of Connor and Kyle.

This is a different situation. Historical battles have a different function and appeal to people. Most of those stories are based on the accounts of real people, real events, essentially adaptations of things that happened and were documented in biographies and so on. These films aren't typically WW2: The Movie; they're about specific, notable people, their achievements and their hardships. There's not a great deal of overlap between a science fiction story and a historical war movie.

Telling the story of a fictional war needs something to ground it, and something to say. Real world wars have in-built themes about the nature of humanity. Terminator's war is about humans fighting back against an evil computer. Skynet isn't a character, it's AI with a simple 'kill all humans' objective. Winning this war isn't a matter of ideology, it's a matter of turning it off. On top of that, there are only two prominent human characters on the other side: the man who led them to victory, and Kyle Reese, whose most notable achievement happened in 1984.



... Allll of this to say it is not impossible to write something in that time period. I've pitched an idea in here at least once. And with so many failed attempts to recapture the magic of the original premise, I'd probably rather something different whenever somebody tries again. But I do understand why creatives have resisted just doing the future war film a lot of fans have requested.

 

[Vaibow]

I'm surprised this never showed up in genysis... going back in time to a retconned t2 and this beast roaring through the city....

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I wish T2 would have kept the original/alternate ending in which Sarah & John end up saving the world and prevent Skynet from wiping out mankind. Then that way we would have avoided all the inferior films that came after

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I wish T2 would have kept the original/alternate ending in which Sarah & John end up saving the world and prevent Skynet from wiping out mankind. Then that way we would have avoided all the inferior films that came after

Agreed. That’s how the franchise ends in my mind, John being a Senator and having his own family and Sarah finally finding peace.

I always hated the idea of Judgment Day being inevitable and the post T2 films pushing that agenda. It just goes against the sacrifices that the characters made in the OG films.

 

[Vaibow]

I wish T2 would have kept the original/alternate ending in which Sarah & John end up saving the world and prevent Skynet from wiping out mankind. Then that way we would have avoided all the inferior films that came after

you just have to believe there is a timeline where that happens and it's cannon..

 

[Drizzle]

I wish T2 would have kept the original/alternate ending in which Sarah & John end up saving the world and prevent Skynet from wiping out mankind. Then that way we would have avoided all the inferior films that came after

Agreed. That’s how the franchise ends in my mind, John being a Senator and having his own family and Sarah finally finding peace.

I always hated the idea of Judgment Day being inevitable and the post T2 films pushing that agenda. It just goes against the sacrifices that the characters made in the OG films.

I remember on the T2 Special Edition DVD from back in the day there was an easter egg on the disc to have that ending incorporated into the movie:



It might as well be the definitive ending for the franchise at this point. I wish Cameron had stuck to his guns and went with that ending but I know he felt the pressure about leaving it more open ended for sequels.

 

[Tg11]

They may as well take the franchise in a whole new direction...future war direction from now on

 

[Vaibow]

I remember on the T2 Special Edition DVD from back in the day there was an easter egg on the disc to have that ending incorporated into the movie:



It might as well be the definitive ending for the franchise at this point. I wish Cameron had stuck to his guns and went with that ending but I know he felt the pressure about leaving it more open ended for sequels.

If they had used an elderly lady, it would have been better received, the make up did look a bit... norbit/white chicks.

 

[Sithborg]

Agreed. That’s how the franchise ends in my mind, John being a Senator and having his own family and Sarah finally finding peace.

I always hated the idea of Judgment Day being inevitable and the post T2 films pushing that agenda. It just goes against the sacrifices that the characters made in the OG films.

I think it depends on how you play around with it. One of the elements of Season 2 of SCC, is that a T1000 wasn't trying to stop the creation of Skynet, but to make a Skynet that wasn't going to turn genocidal. Hickman's X-men had a concept of technological advances are inevitable, you can't stop progress. Skynet is going to be created, because humans are going to develop AI. This movie even plays around with the concept, with Skynet never being created, but with Legion in its place.

I think there is also something to be said for the idea that you have to keep fighting for a better future.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I refuse to believe that a cool action/thriller set during the Future War couldn't happen lol

 

[DarkKnight88]

I refuse to believe that a cool action/thriller set during the Future War couldn't happen lol

Yes!

But looking like this...

Not this.

 

[MadVillainy]

I was fine with the look of termiantor Savlation. Could it have been better? Sure.
But that's so low on my list of issues with the movie. Poor action scenes, poor story, poor characters, some very below average performances from some very talented people...all those pulled the film down for me

 

[DarkKnight88]

I was fine with the look of termiantor Savlation. Could it have been better? Sure.
But that's so low on my list of issues with the movie. Poor action scenes, poor story, poor characters, some very below average performances from some very talented people...all those pulled the film down for me

All those matter too, but the look was so underwhelming for what was promised. People say that Terminator might not be a big screen draw anymore, but if they captured the epic scope of those opening scenes from Terminator and Terminator 2 promising the future war, I think that would go a long way on an IMAX screen.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't think people would've cared anymore if it looked like the future war set up by T1 and T2 if it still had all of those other issues.

When I hear most people talk about the flaws with TS, all those other things (namely the story and characters) are cited before the look of the movie. At least from what I've seen

 

[Scarlet Spider]

All those matter too, but the look was so underwhelming for what was promised. People say that Terminator might not be a big screen draw anymore, but if they captured the epic scope of those opening scenes from Terminator and Terminator 2 promising the future war, I think that would go a long way on an IMAX screen.

I just think it's too late.

Genisys tried to capture Cameron's aesthetic and showed the endgame of the war but that film was garbage.

Dark Fate completely did away with the classic mythology. John Connor & Skynet aren't even canon anymore.

Another theatrical release, in whatever form, would flat out bomb. Too much damage has been done.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I just think it's too late.

Genisys tried to capture Cameron's aesthetic and showed the endgame of the war but that film was garbage.

Dark Fate completely did away with the classic mythology. John Connor & Skynet aren't even canon anymore.

Another theatrical release, in whatever form, would flat out bomb. Too much damage has been done.

Probably true.

And I forgot Genysis tried something similar but it was such a CGI throw-up where it looked more like a cartoon version of the opening of T2.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Honestly if a studio did the Future War and actually distanced itself from the Terminator/John Connor mythos a la Rogue One and Star Wars, it could actually be a pretty good movie.

 

[henzINNIT]

Salvation is peak cinematic incompetence. It is so constantly stupid that it still blows my mind.

That T2 alternate ending is lame. I'm very glad it changed, much prefer the note the final cut ended on. It is still plenty definitive should you want the story to end there.