Terminator: Salvation - The NEW new thread

[Deaths Head II]

Terminator Salvation would have needed a reboot if they went with the original ending. As it is, it's just a pointless yet harmless film. They don't have to really reference it just like TS didn't really reference T3. It's part of the continuity but that doesn't make much of a difference in the end.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

'Terminator' bidding: Sony, Warner, Summit, Legendary may soon vie with Lions Gate
January 14, 2010 | 8:09 am

TermSalv1 Lions Gate Entertainment's position as the lead bidder to buy the rights to make future "Terminator" movies may not last long.

Sony Pictures, which distributed last year's “Terminator: Salvation” overseas, Warner Bros., which distributed the movie domestically, Summit Entertainment, the independent studio behind the “Twilight” movies, and film financing and production company Legendary Pictures are all considering making bids, according to people close to the companies.

Another possible bidder is private equity firm Pacificor, which loaned Halcyon Co. the $25 million it used to buy the "Terminator" rights in 2007. Chief executive Andy Mitchell said that Pacificor may make an offer if it feels that the debts owed to it by Halcyon are not sufficiently covered by any other bids.

Halcyon put the "Terminator" rights up for sale in September, one month after it filed for Chapter 11 reorganization, in order to raise cash to pay off Pacificor and other debtors.

For more on the bankruptcy court sales proceedings of the "Terminator" rights, see the story in today's Times.

--Ben Fritz

 

[GothamAlleys]

But there really is no reason to ignore Terminator: Salvation.

There is. There are plot holes so big and so large in numbers, the logistics and plots is so tangled up that nothing makes sense anymore, its one big mess (albeit not as bad as T3 which was filled with logistical errors and plotholes in EVERY single scene - http://www.jamescamerononline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=557). Thats why Cameron said that after those two movies it doesnt make sense for him to make another one

 

[hippie_hunter]

There is. There are plot holes so big and so large in numbers, the logistics and plots is so tangled up that nothing makes sense anymore, its one big mess (albeit not as bad as T3 which was filled with logistical errors and plotholes in EVERY single scene - http://www.jamescamerononline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=557). Thats why Cameron said that after those two movies it doesnt make sense for him to make another one

James Cameron was never going back to Terminator in the first place. I think that's the problem that most people who hate Terminator 3 and Terminator: Salvation have the most. He set the bar incredibly high with his two masterpiece films that Terminator 3 and Terminator: Salvation just don't live up to par. He's never coming back period, no matter how nice it would be. Hell, he even said that he has no intention on taking the rights back from whoever buys it when he has the ability to do so in 20 years.

But while Terminator 3 failed because they made John Connor into a whiny crybaby little *****, Terminator: Salvation works as a summer blockbuster film. Keyword summer blockbuster. To quote Maxim "—anyone who claims that Salvation lacks continuity is clearly viewing the older movies through rose-colored memories. This story has had gaping holes long before McG came along. And there's no need to overthink this. The original Terminator was a well done B-movie. That's all. This is an enjoyable sci-fi action flick. That's all. Isn't that enough? It was never going to top T2, but then again, neither did T3."

Terminator doesn't need a reboot. It just needs a sequel with better screenwriters.

 

[GothamAlleys]

James Cameron was never going back to Terminator in the first place. I think that's the problem that most people who hate Terminator 3 and Terminator: Salvation have the most. He set the bar incredibly high with his two masterpiece films that Terminator 3 and Terminator: Salvation just don't live up to par.

Well, personally I wouldnt even want T3 even from him. He designed the story for two movies and edned it in the second. Together they work incredibly well as one, unified narrative and overall as a story with a great message and resolution. Still, he could make a prequel to the first movie

He's never coming back period, no matter how nice it would be. Hell, he even said that he has no intention on taking the rights back from whoever buys it when he has the ability to do so in 20 years.

By that point I wouldnt want to touch it either in his place. The brand has been watered down and overexposed by the teeny bopper TV series, SNL-like T3 and Superhero-ish Salvation. General audience doesnt care anymore, the name is stained and the turd is in the pool

But while Terminator 3 failed because they made John Connor into a whiny crybaby little *****, Terminator: Salvation works as a summer blockbuster film.

That I agree with.

Terminator doesn't need a reboot. It just needs a sequel with better screenwriters.

Or, as I said, a prequel depicting the original vision for the future war, the one cut from the original extended T2 script

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I think Cameron definitely would have been interested in making T3, back in the 90's, if the producers didn't run off with the rights. IMO, that was the main reason that kept him from coming back.

Here's an actual quote from Cameron, from '95:

There's a very rich, though bleak, futurography out there, that you could delve back into at any point, Arnold played the Terminator. And then he played the other Terminator. So he could easily come back as yet another. "There's a factory somewhere in the future, crancking these suckers out, so we could always go back to it if we wanted to."

http://www.terminatorfiles.com/media/articles/t3_004.htm

That was back then though. Cameron has long since moved on and feels very adamantly that without Arnold, there is no franchise. If he were to have ever made another Terminator, it would have been back then.

 

[Solidus]

I agree with JamesCameronOnline over here.

I mean yea T1 was going to be a B-class movie as some would label it, but it never was that. Cameron was such a genius he made something that easily could have been but ended up being a sci-fi classic that most still refer to to this day about how it impacted the movie world.

What I want to see is not a full re-boot. I want to see a Superman Returns. In the sense that we have T1 and T2 count, then start over with T3. Like jamescameron said though, the Terminator franchise does not have the respect that it once had. It can still make money (so can Michael Bay) but it has lost its quality. And I think there are amazing people out there that can do justice to Terminator that are not James Cameron.

The Terminator franchise is so rich with so many things that can be done, but I just want them to go back to T3 and start again. But that's me, I'm one dude. But that's what I would like to see.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I think Cameron definitely would have been interested in making T3, back in the 90's, if the producers didn't run off with the rights. IMO, that was the main reason that kept him from coming back.

Here's an actual quote from Cameron, from '95:



That was back then though. Cameron has long since moved on and feels very adamantly that without Arnold, there is no franchise. If he were to have ever made another Terminator, it would have been back then.

Well for some reason they didnt want to let him write the movie, only direct it from Ted Sarafian's script and that pissed him off (no surprise). As to why on earth Vajna and Kassar would do so, I have no clue. Perhaps $ 0 they would have to pay Cameron around $15 mill for the script and they paid probably $20 for that piece of s**t Sarafian, Brancato and Ferris wrote

 

[Solidus]

I think Cameron definitely would have been interested in making T3, back in the 90's, if the producers didn't run off with the rights. IMO, that was the main reason that kept him from coming back.

Here's an actual quote from Cameron, from '95:



That was back then though. Cameron has long since moved on and feels very adamantly that without Arnold, there is no franchise. If he were to have ever made another Terminator, it would have been back then.

Though this is a pipe dream. The one thing I will say that I'm happy about Cameron did with Avatar was his jump in photo-realistic CGI. One thing that could easily be done is have Old Arnold come back, after being da Govenator. And use that tech to make his face look like it did in T1 and T2. Avatar showed it can be done. But that's a pipe dream I guess.

Who knows dreams can come true!!!

 

[hippie_hunter]

Well, personally I wouldnt even want T3 even from him. He designed the story for two movies and edned it in the second. Together they work incredibly well as one, unified narrative and overall as a story with a great message and resolution. Still, he could make a prequel to the first movie

I agree with that, but movie studios certainly would want a franchise as big as Terminator to continue.

By that point I wouldnt want to touch it either in his place. The brand has been watered down and overexposed by the teeny bopper TV series, SNL-like T3 and Superhero-ish Salvation. General audience doesnt care anymore, the name is stained and the turd is in the pool

The TV series was tainted by Fox not giving a damn about science fiction even though it was critically acclaimed and the movie series could continue with a competent screenwriting team and not the hacks who wrote Catwoman.

Or, as I said, a prequel depicting the original vision for the future war, the one cut from the original extended T2 script

Now that Salvation has established John Connor as the leader of the resistance that would be awesome and hopefully whoever buys the rights ditched McG who wants to use time travel and just focus on John Connor leading the resistance.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Terminator doesn't need a reboot. It just needs a sequel with better screenwriters.

Agreed.

 

[lzzy]

The best for Terminator that I can imagine, short of Cameron directing, is him overseeig in some way a future war movie, maybe like the two-part Che films, part 1 focusing on John Connor's rise, Skynet camps, liberation, Resistance formation etc, and part 2 being more like the T2 future intro, ending with Kyle going back to '84. Then finito, don't flog the dead horse.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

I wouldn't mind if the Hughs brothers, or even the Spreig brothers tackled the next sequel.

 

[Paradoxium]

I did not say reboot, I said ignore Salvation - like Highlander 2. I don't even want Kate and Skynet knowing about John Connor or Reese

 

[hippie_hunter]

But I don't even see the need to ignore it. I would like to see Christian Bale, Bryce Dallas Howard, Anton Yelchin, Common, and Moon Bloodgood to stay on. I would like them to remember Marcus Wright because he was pretty cool. Also thanks to Salvation you have John Connor in charge of the Resistance because Skynet killed the leadership.

With a better director and screenwriters you can have John and Kyle bond and develop a Bizarro Father-Son relationship, John Connor deal with the tough decisions involved in being the leader of the entire resistance beyond just being a major figure in it, humans vs. robots like you see in Terminator 2, and I would personally love to see Summer Glau in the next film

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Personally, i feel Salvation dropped the ball on so many points i wouldnt mind at all if they ignored it, there is no way they can explain Skynet knowing of Kyle's existence let alone being able to indentify him, and that is the biggest plot hole in any of the movies easily.

 

[Nivek]

I know I said this in the earlier thread, but Skynet may know about Kyle because of the police records. i know they said a lot of the information was destroyed, but things changed as soon as the first Terminator showed up.

I don't see the need for reboots in Time Travel based films. Alternate Timelines are great erasers of bad ideas.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I know I said this in the earlier thread, but Skynet may know about Kyle because of the police records. i know they said a lot of the information was destroyed, but things changed as soon as the first Terminator showed up.

I don't see the need for reboots in Time Travel based films. Alternate Timelines are great erasers of bad ideas.

The thing is though, Skynet is software, they didnt have software in 1984, we see the records being written on paper and that the interview was on video-tape, so how Skynet would get hold of this I dont know.

Not to mention, NOTHING in those records would indicate Kyle is John's father.

 

[Solidus]

I know I said this in the earlier thread, but Skynet may know about Kyle because of the police records. i know they said a lot of the information was destroyed, but things changed as soon as the first Terminator showed up.

Even though pages back I wrote a long article why I don't care for altered time lines and just feel it does not work that way (to eaches own) Even if what you say did happen. Why does Skynet kill him the second he has him? Why dangle him around? Why wait? The second he gets a hold of him (clearly any machine can ID him) have him Terminated. Skynet is machine logical. Kill Kyle. Kills John. Simple. Even if I do suspend my belief that Skynet knows about Kyle (which I don't anymore as I did when I first saw the film) I just don't get why Skynet does not kill him ASAP.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Skynet knowing Reese might be easier to explain than you think. Why Skynet doesn't kill Kyle Reese is another story.

This could be how Skynet knows of past missions. There are two Skynets in the Terminator Universe. The first one will be designated Skynet 1997, as it comes from a timeline where Judgment Day happened in the year 1997. The second we'll call Skynet 2003 (or 2004, depending on when you think T3 took place).

Skynet 1997 was based on the technology of its time. A time before standard practice for storing records were on computers. When Uncle Bob and T-1000 went back through time, they changed the order of events. Sarah Connor was influenced to take matters into her own hands, and the future was altered from 1995 onward.

In this altered timeline, Skynet 2003 emerged. Judgment Day had been delayed, and through advancements in technology, Skynet had more going for it. For one, Skynet now had access to the world wide web and every computer connected into it. Which means, it found the records on Kyle Reese (police records & tapes), Sarah Connor (police records & tapes), the T-800 (security photos and footage), and the Cyberdyne incident.

Kyle Reese explains the records were lost during the war. But he was speaking from a different timeline. One where Skynet (1997) didn't have access to them. Skynet 2003 was able to connect online and store from the moment General Robert Brewster pressed the "y" button. Over the years, it connected A to B and figured it all out.

Someone said above that Skynet shouldn't have known that Kyle was John's father. I think maybe you're right. It didn't. But it did know that Kyle was a protector from the future. Which would explain why it previously didn't kill him, or attempt to kill him.

But here's the thing, Skynet wasn't watching through Marcus live. They were recordings of their own. Skynet didn't hear John say that Kyle was his father until Marcus uploaded, and around that time frame the T-600 came to his cell block to take him away.

 

[Bim]

But I don't even see the need to ignore it. I would like to see Christian Bale, Bryce Dallas Howard, Anton Yelchin, Common, and Moon Bloodgood to stay on. I would like them to remember Marcus Wright because he was pretty cool. Also thanks to Salvation you have John Connor in charge of the Resistance because Skynet killed the leadership.

With a better director and screenwriters you can have John and Kyle bond and develop a Bizarro Father-Son relationship, John Connor deal with the tough decisions involved in being the leader of the entire resistance beyond just being a major figure in it, humans vs. robots like you see in Terminator 2.

Agreed!

 

[deathshead2]

Terminator 5-From the directors of Crank.

Think about how crazy that movie would be.

 

[Nightmare]

I still dream at a Neil Bloomkamp Terminator film.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Not to mention, NOTHING in those records would indicate Kyle is John's father.

This is true. Kyle himself didn't even know, he was John's father. The police wouldn't or couldn't have known either, nor would it have been in their police records.

 

[Solidus]

Skynet knowing Reese might be easier to explain than you think. Why Skynet doesn't kill Kyle Reese is another story.

This could be how Skynet knows of past missions. There are two Skynets in the Terminator Universe. The first one will be designated Skynet 1997, as it comes from a timeline where Judgment Day happened in the year 1997. The second we'll call Skynet 2003 (or 2004, depending on when you think T3 took place).

Skynet 1997 was based on the technology of its time. A time before standard practice for storing records were on computers. When Uncle Bob and T-1000 went back through time, they changed the order of events. Sarah Connor was influenced to take matters into her own hands, and the future was altered from 1995 onward.

In this altered timeline, Skynet 2003 emerged. Judgment Day had been delayed, and through advancements in technology, Skynet had more going for it. For one, Skynet now had access to the world wide web and every computer connected into it. Which means, it found the records on Kyle Reese (police records & tapes), Sarah Connor (police records & tapes), the T-800 (security photos and footage), and the Cyberdyne incident.

Kyle Reese explains the records were lost during the war. But he was speaking from a different timeline. One where Skynet (1997) didn't have access to them. Skynet 2003 was able to connect online and store from the moment General Robert Brewster pressed the "y" button. Over the years, it connected A to B and figured it all out.

Someone said above that Skynet shouldn't have known that Kyle was John's father. I think maybe you're right. It didn't. But it did know that Kyle was a protector from the future. Which would explain why it previously didn't kill him, or attempt to kill him.

But here's the thing, Skynet wasn't watching through Marcus live. They were recordings of their own. Skynet didn't hear John say that Kyle was his father until Marcus uploaded, and around that time frame the T-600 came to his cell block to take him away.

But then why even keep him as a priority before hand. The General knew it, and that list was before Marcus was awakened. So it still makes no sense.

As for the rest of it, yea I use to believe all the alternate timeline stuff too. And I still don't prefer it anymore. But the fact of it is, if they want to go with the alternate timeline stuff they need to explain it. That to me shows they really don't know/care what they are doing. If they wanted to change it, they should at least explain it in some ways, not heavily but enough. And that is why I've grown tired of T3 and T4 in some ways. But that's why you gotta get into Hollywood there Carn and set em strait. Cuz we need some one that understands the mythos.

But anymore I just want T3/T4 to be erased and them start anew after T2 again. But that's me.

I still dream at a Neil Bloomkamp Terminator film.

That would be really cool. I'm sure he would take good care of it too.