Thanos is not the be all end all of the Marvel Universe

[DrCosmic]

As far as uber genius time travelers with powered armor, Kang is also more Avengers-centric than Dr. Doom. Mr. Dent has a point that Doom is in fact the poster child for villainy in the Marvel Universe. That doesn't make him the best villain, imho, and it doesn't make him an Avengers villain. If Marvel was going to make a film with the Avengers AND Fantastic Four (and any others) Doom would be the natural villain, but for the Avengers, for a story devoid of the Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom is not the best choice, on any level.

Let alone the fact that the Fantastic Four isn't coming back any time soon, not with Trank at the helm.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Let alone the fact that the Fantastic Four isn't coming back any time soon, not with Trank at the helm.

If I were Marvel I'd cut him a check to delay, drag things out, and sabotage the movie so it doesn't happen, as well as promise him that he'll get to direct a Marvel version when the rights revert back.

If I were Marvel, of course.

 

[Lord]

If I were Marvel I'd cut him a check to delay, drag things out, and sabotage the movie so it doesn't happen, as well as promise him that he'll get to direct a Marvel version when the rights revert back.

If I were Marvel, of course.

The judge would love that story

 

[hadi]

Well an article did just come out that even though there is no cast, DD reboot will set to start filming in Louisiana in Sept.

 

[hadi]

DD lol

I meant FF

 

[Captain Marvel]

The judge would love that story

Fine, then an under-the-table cash agreement, very hush hush.

 

[DrCosmic]

Sorry to deflate the joke, but the amount you'd have to pay a creative person to compromise their reputation as a competent filmmaker would show up on the books of a public company like Disney and come under investigation.

 

[Raiden]

Well, if Marvel gets FF rights back within the next 5 years, they can have Doom in Avengers 4, right after Thanos. I wish Disney would negotiate another deal with Fox to get the First Family back to Marvel.

 

[cherokeesam]

I agree with the above that Ultron is a more quintessentially Avengers villain than Dr. Doom, not the least of which because of his personal connection to so many of them (Although I'd still kill to see Doom appear in an Avengers movie, although he's definitely not the "Ultimate Avengers Villain" that the OP makes him out to be). But to be fair, Doom DID make Ultron his ***** in Secret Wars. But then again that WAS the 80's. Since then Ultron also had his time as a universal threat with Annihilation: Conquest, whereas Doom's still getting knocked around by Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm.

Incidentally, I REALLY hope that Guardians of the Galaxy succeeds at the box office and gets sequels, because I'd love to see an Annihilation: Conquest adaptation. How great would it be to see Avengers: Age of Ultron, think Ultron's defeated, only for Ultron to reappear in the galaxy at large and become a threat to the major galactic powers like the Kree Empire and so on in a Guardians of the Galaxy followup?

+1

I would luh-huv to see Ultron's post-AoU iteration take over the Phalanx and launch an Annihilation movie.

 

[Green Goblin]

Is Thanos not more powerful than Doom though?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'll take Thanos over Doom every day of the week. Thanos is an event.

I believe what Mr. Dent is getting at is the perception that some are insinuating - GOTG would have never have seen the light of day if FF had been in Marvel's clutches. I haven't seen anyone say that outright, but there does seem to be discussion that GOTG would be redundant if FF existed in the MCU. The quote below gets to what I'm speaking about... it seems as if you're saying FF should take precendence over GOTG in that scenario.



Anyways, I *think* what he's saying is that there are several characters that haven't been greenlit or given a release date (like Dr. Strange), but Marvel still has every intention of making that movie. By that same logic, GOTG still would have been a film that is made if FF is a part of Marvel's rights, but it may have been in a different context.

Either way, it's all speculation based on a scenario that hasn't presented a problem for Marvel - they don't have the rights to FF now so GOTG is the logical choice here. It doesn't mean that we wouldn't have seen it at some point, it's just a matter of finding characters that make sense in the overall scheme of the story they want to tell throughout the MCU.

Well thank the maker they don't have the rights then. I much prefer the Guardians to the FF.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

I'll take Thanos over Doom every day of the week. Thanos is an event.


Well thank the maker they don't have the rights then. I much prefer the Guardians to the FF.

I agree - I'm really excited to see what they come up with for GOTG nad I can wait a while to see a rebooted FF.

 

[hadi]

Did anyone catch the description of the Call Sheet about a scene in GotG? I remember it was about Starlord going to a Galaxy Broker or like some galaxy secrete pawn Shop and he maybe wanting to get rid of some gems....... maybe lol.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Is Thanos not more powerful than Doom though?

Vastly more powerful, and that's without taking into account the number of times that he gains access to godlike power. Doom has access to magic, but aside from that Thanos is superior in every other way, from intelligence to technology to capabilities and so on.

 

[hadi]

Doom is a human with altered DNA.

Thanos is a Titan but with the Deviant gene. So he is a mutant titan.

 

[Captain Marvel]

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

^Awesome. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[hadi]

The Comics don't lie.... cartoons and movies on the other hand do!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Thanos was created by Starlin. Dr. Doom was co-created by Jack Kirby. Nuff said.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Captain Marvel, you post that like I haven't read all of those stories. I've read every Thanos story from his first appearance in Iron Man 55 to his "last" confrontation with Spider-Man and Thing in Marvel Two-In-One Annual 2 and Avengers Annual 7. And of course Infinity Gauntlet. I've never said Thanos wasn't the most powerful, I've never questioned it. If anything I've said he is. That isn't my point. My point is that power, and even threat level =/= better villain. That especially doesn't make him a better villain for a film. Raising the stakes doesn't always make something better.

My point is Doom is a better villain in general, not talking about power. Thanos is one note. He's based off of a very strong concept and he's very powerful in and of himself, but he is still a one trick pony. Doom has far more layers, and is not just a better villain but a better character in general. He doesn't have to kill half the universe to be revered. There is a reason he is the face of Marvel villainy.

Thanos was created by Starlin. Dr. Doom was co-created by Jack Kirby. Nuff said.

Exactly. Only reason I didn't say that is because I didn't want to get into the merits of whether or not a Kirby creation stumps everything else by that fact alone.

 

[Captain Marvel]

I posted those for fun. It had nothing to do with you. But yeah, if you think that Thanos is one-note then you frankly don't have a clue what you're talking about. And in comparison to Doom, the "layered" villain? The guy who's so reliably treacherous that he makes 1980's Starscream look like a paragon of team spirit? Nevermind that Doom is motivated by the oldest and most cliche'd supervillain motive of all time, world domination. As far as motivations go, it doesn't get more one-note than that.

Ultimately it's all subjective and up to personal opinions. In my personal opinion, though, Thanos is the superior character. He's the one who has more depth and layers to him. His motives and the things which drive him are unique. That's why he went from being a one-off Iron Man villain and grew so much, while Doom continues as a Fantastic Four villain. One-note, one-trick ponies don't grow beyond the bounds of their original creation the way Thanos has. Only textured, nuanced, and original characters succeed at that. That is why Thanos has become what he is today, and while Doom is interesting, he's certainly not as interesting as Thanos.

Only reason I didn't say that is because I didn't want to get into the merits of whether or not a Kirby creation stumps everything else by that fact alone.

Because it's a nonsensical argument. Or are you going to argue that the Black Racer, Beast, Big Barda, and Machine Man are superior to the likes of Wolverine, Deadpool, the Punisher, etc? Dr. Doom was co-created by Stan Lee, too, who also created Diablo and Ravage 2099. So are Diablo and Ravage 2099 likewise superior to every other character by dint of being created by Stan Lee? It's a meaningless argument, because both men created characters which were dogs or nowhere near as successful as their most well known characters, and plenty of other creators have created characters on par with theirs, if not superior (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc. weren't created by Lee and Kirby, after all. Neither was Wolverine, possibly Marvel's most popular character right alongside Spider-Man).

 

[Captain Marvel]

And just for the hell of it, because I love this fight...

 

[Captain Marvel]

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I love both Thanos and Doom, but Doom after Thanos does seem like kind of a downgrade (in terms of threat level).

1. Loki
2. Ultron
3. Thanos

The threat level increases.
Assuming Ultron is only a threat to Earth.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Yep. The dictator of a small Eastern European country can't quite stack up to the architect of universal genocide. Although I imagine that they're not going to stop with Avengers 3. My theory is that they're going to treat each Avengers trilogy in the same way as a trade paperback, the entirety of one story arc. When they finish one trilogy they'll start a new story arc.

Also Avengers 3 is a good place to bring the beginning of the MCU to something of an end. By then Downey will be done, and Hemsworth's and Evans's 6-picture contracts will also have run their course, so it's a good idea to bring things to a big finish for Avengers 3, since they'll probably be saying goodbye to all of the actors who originated those roles. After that they're going to have to either write those characters out of the Avengers and bring in new characters, or (and more likely) recast those roles and have those film series' continue with new actors (I expect most will be recast, but some of the recast characters might be left out of the Avengers for a while to make room for some new blood).

Either way, Avengers 4 is the natural starting off point for a whole new chapter in the MCU, after which they can start building up tension again to Avengers 6. So if they EVER get Doom back and try to get him into an Avengers movie, then somewhere between Avengers 4-6 would be the ideal place for him (I'd say Avengers 6, but ONLY if they're doing Secret Wars. Otherwise he's not a trilogy ending villain).