'That was our kiss!!!!' Query?

[Dragon]

My 2cents on MJ in this franchise are as fallows.

Spider-Man
Her "relationships" with Flash, Harry and Spider-Man are all very consistent, she's the teenage girl looking for "what's hot," you have Flash, the popular jock, you have Harry, the millionaire's son and Spider-Man the dashing hero. Now not to sound sexiest but is the average teenage girl going to find these three unattractive? She's attractive to social status not what's important.

Flash seemed like an ass so she is well rid of him.

Harry treated her the same way that she treated him, she was a trophy. She can't tell him that she works at a restaurant, he wants her to wear black to impress his father [sounds like it's her personality Harry thinks is important huh] then when it mattered, when Norman basically called her ****, Harry didn't defend her beyond a half hearted "You're wrong about her" then flew off the handle at her because she was upset by it. He's a keeper.

Spider-Man is Spider-Man, I'm lot's of girls would develop a crush on him, and that's all it is despite her calling it love, plus if you want to talk about her kissing Spider-Man you have to talk about Peter kissing his best friends girl as well.

Then she grows up and fall's for a guy who likes her for the right reasons and starts likening him for the right reasons. Peter then rejects her.

Spider-Man 2
She's dating John Jameson A.K.A. a reliable Peter Parker. Jameson is Peter in everyway, loyal, loving, heroic but he's there for an 8 o clock curtain as well. But as much as he is like Peter is not Peter and she is trying to fool herself into thinking that she loves him. Then Peter she goes to Peter and makes a mistake by nearly kissing him, sure its wrong but it's understandable, she is still only 19/20 after all. Of course when she runs out of the wedding that can be construed as selfish but it's better than having two people in a sham marriage. Whether it right that she gave him a note is questionable because we are never shown the aftermath, maybe she spoke to him at a later date, considering Jonah treats Peter in the same way as always I think it is very possible she did.

Spider-Man 3
MJ career is in tatters and all Peter talks about is himself. His only advice is that he got trough it, guess what, she's not him, she's not Spider-Man, she doesn't risk her life everyday for others, she doesn't have his courage, she has to get through this her own way, not his. Now you could say that she should tell him this but he she can't because every conversation is ended abruptly by Spider-Man, can you blame her for talking with Harry. They have a moment and they kiss, is it wrong? Yes! Is it understandable? Yes! Now look at Peter and Gwen. Gwen is ****ing hot, Peter tutor's Gwen, doesn't tell MJ about her why? Because he is spanking the monkey thinking about her, that's why. As much as you guys want to say that he did it for publicity that's not the case, he did it because he wanted to kiss Gwen and get away with it because he is Spider-Man at that moment, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

As for people who want to call MJ a **** for kissing, nothing more is ever implied five men in 5 years, you need to get out into the real world lads. Also you want the party girl from the 60's right? Well what do you think of when you think of a party girl? A girl that goes out and dances but always remembers he chastity belt?

So Mary Jane is always right.

Peter's wrong for kissing Gwen while with MJ-

But it's okay that MJ kissed Spidey while she was with Harry.

It's okay that MJ wanted to kiss Peter while engaged to John

It's okay that MJ kissed Harry while with Peter.

But Peter is wrong.

As for Peter only talking about himself- Was that when he was gushing over her opening night?

And when she said "Don't give me the horse thing-" Peter stopped talking and listened- only interrupted by his having to SAVE SOMEONE'S LIFE. She could have talked to Peter about what was going on with her. But she chose not to. That's what she always does. She didn't talk to Harry whne there was a problem ("He's been calling me but i haven't called him back") She didn't talk to John and she didn't talk to Peter.

 

[Dragon]

No, he should save her. But should he be kissing her for a picture?

And it wasn't the same as her acting career. She has those kisses written in the scripts and I'm sure warns Peter that it will happen. Peter didn't warn her a bit and did it spontaneously in front of a crowd. And it was "their" moment.

"Their moment" came when she was dating another guy. Was it okay for MJ to do that? And no matter how you slice it- she shared "their moment" with another guy. If it was "sacred" to her, and expects it to be so for Peter, then she wouldn't have.

And it is the same as her acting career, in that it was FOR SHOW. MJ knows that you can kiss someone while performing and not feel anything.

I also don't think you can hold the firing hting over her. Sure Peter didn't tell anyone at the beginning of SM2 that he felt like ****. But at the same time MJ lost her job and didn't confide it in the only person she thinks she can confide to because it would ruin "his" day at the festival. She acted happy for him and wanted him to enjoy the moment. The fact that he kissed a girl who obviously likes Peter in the same way they first "connected" had to be a big surprise and be a low blow.

Considering that MJ has cheated on EVERY GUY SHE'S BEEN WITH- She's definitely the pot calling the kettle black.

And no, she wasn't happy for him on his day. She was a crabby and *****y. She shouldn't have been in the background- She should have been in the FRONT ROW- like Peter was for her. Especially considering how many times Spider-Man saved her life. And if it was a problem for Peter to be around Gwen, why is it okay for Mj to be around Harry, who'd obviously have unresolved feelings for her? His feelings were just supposed to switch off because she dumped him?

And clearly Peter didn't think Gwen liked him. Regardless, he didn't like her that way.

And I think she did apologize about her blow up at the restaurant. When she found out Peter was in a bad place she put that behind her and tried to comfort him. He then threw her out and she didn't "berate" so much as warn Peter that he shouldn't do anything rash. Y'know, like put a symbiote suit on and attempt to kill a man in a moment of passion.

MJ absolutely DID NOT apologize. She said "I'm not here about last night." That's it. She doesn't hug or kiss him or do anything to show him any affection. She doesn't attempt to be there for or support him. She tells him not to do anything stupid. Yeah. That's constructive. Especially after she's *****ing that Peter is being insensitive. So that's how she shows sensitivity?

I think people just want to be harsher on MJ because Dunst plays her for some reason. She did do a mean thing to Peter at the restaurant, but he then again kissed another girl who obviously did like Peter as she was openly flirting with him in front of MJ, kick her out of his apartment when she came to comfort him and the whole slapping thing.

Peter didn't kick her out of the apartment. He just said- Okay- Thanks. Yes, he was dismissing her. But she wasn't helping the situation. Comforting???? She was only aggrivating him. Since she's the authority on when you need someone to listen- why didn't she sit and listen to Peter? Just let him vent and maybe cool off?

MJ in this series is basically only looking to Peter to be her private fan club. she measures him based onb how much support he gives her. He supports her in Spidey 1, so she loves him. In Spidey 2 he doesn't go to her show so she doesn't. Did she ever go to see him? Just to hang out? "I want to sing on stage with you in the front row". Exactly she's in the limelight and he's cheering her on. She doesn't say something like- "When I'm singing it's just to you" or something that suggests she loves Peter just for who he is. She never even says she loves him in Spidey 3. Though she demands that he say it to her.

And Kirsten Dunst as a performer is showing more and more that she thinks she's too good for this franchise. Look at her interviews- she's always acting like the whole thing is a tremendous chore. Compare those to Bryce Howard's enthusiasm about doing the film. It appears her displeausre is reflected in her performance. So if she's unhappy, she should just leave the series.

 

[Eggyman]

I agree. I am starting to think that MJ was splashed with a little symbiote juice herself.

 

[TheVileOne]

Eh whatever. She's a woman right. Women act irrational a lot y'know.

MJ still got upset in the comics when a woman forced herself upon Peter and kissed him even though he couldn't do a damn thing about it (Disassembled arc).

And in the comics, did MJ not kiss a guy while Peter was overseas and laid up in bed (rejected him after it happened, but she still kissed him).

The night before she gets married to Peter, she's hanging out and partying with other guys who are desperate to stop her from getting married.

Just saying, MJ did that in the comics.

I'm not saying it was right for MJ to feel the way she did. But Peter wasn't being a virtuous little angel either. They BOTH made mistakes, and that was the point. People need to get over it.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

So Mary Jane is always right.

Peter's wrong for kissing Gwen while with MJ-

But it's okay that MJ kissed Spidey while she was with Harry.

It's okay that MJ wanted to kiss Peter while engaged to John

It's okay that MJ kissed Harry while with Peter.

But Peter is wrong

No as I said in my post, which you clearly couldn't have read properply to draw this conclusion. I repeatitaly said her behaviour was wrong but you could understand it, Peter's you couldn't understand. People can say that it was just for publicity but in reality it was because he wanted to kiss a girl he fancied and get away with it.

As for Peter only talking about himself- Was that when he was gushing over her opening night?

And when she said "Don't give me the horse thing-" Peter stopped talking and listened- only interrupted by his having to SAVE SOMEONE'S LIFE.

See this is the problem, people only look at it from Peter's point of view, if he is always out saving people how can he be there for her? It's like saying I'd loved to listen to you MJ but there's a complete stranger I've never met on the other side of town, they're more important than you

She could have talked to Peter about what was going on with her. But she chose not to. That's what she always does. She didn't talk to Harry whne there was a problem ("He's been calling me but i haven't called him back") She didn't talk to John and she didn't talk to Peter.

Why should she talk to Harry, he was an *******, **** him. John she could've talked to and it was wrong of her to not have and Peter was never there.

As the Vile one said she did this all the time in the comics as well.

 

[The Joker]

Well said as always, Dragon

 

[dodus]

See this is the problem, people only look at it from Peter's point of view.

I agree this is the main reason for the MJ hate. How else could you explain people continuing to hound on MJ after a film that explicitly attempted to make you sympathize more with MJ than Peter?

 

[Eggyman]

I agree this is the main reason for the MJ hate. How else could you explain people continuing to hound on MJ after a film that explicitly attempted to make you sympathize more with MJ than Peter?

Now I do understand your point here, but IMO this is where the film failed. I didn't sympathize with MJ -- I wasn't able to; MJ needed to be innocent for that to work, and she wasn't, not by a country mile. In this film I feel everyone got their just desserts . . . well, in most cases anyway.

 

[dodus]

Now I do understand your point here, but IMO this is where the film failed. I didn't sympathize with MJ -- I wasn't able to; MJ needed to be innocent for that to work, and she wasn't, not by a country mile. In this film I feel everyone got their just desserts . . . well, in most cases anyway.

I respect that you at least got what was being attempted, but I disagree; I think it worked. I'd go so far as to say that while there were numerous failures in this film, the Peter-MJ drama was the shining, untouchable accomplishment, where Raimi puts most of his efforts (some would say to the detriment of Spidey, again) and gets at least that one thing just right.

I don't think MJ's innocent; I don't think any of us are. But when the evidence of MJ's "guilt" amounts to dating lots of guys and being snarky when she's pissed at her boyfriend, I can't help but wonder what kind of strange subserviant-concubine-male-fantasy world some of you guys are living in.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There is no psychological basis. That's just your own theorey, dude. You're putting it down to her father, when in fact the only time she mentions her father is in no relation to her relationships.

In SM-2, she uses her dad showing up at her play to illustrate that even he can make it to her plays, when Peter cannot. Her deadbeat dad can make it to the play, even if it is just to borrow cash, but her best friend cannot.

In SM-3, she says the bad review sounds like her dad saying those words. That's in relation again to her career.

I can't see how you're relating her dad to her throwing her feminine wiles around the way she does.

Her dad by constantly berading her, made her feel unappreciated. We see this as evident when she talks to Peter in the backyard about how they can always her them fighting. This suggests it happens a lot. I get my basis there. This is why she continues in each movie to raise her status in life, and ends up ignoring the one person who actually appreciated her (Peter). From the cool guy in school (Flash), to the rich guy (Harry), and then the famous person (John). Her constant feeling of inferiority also is evident when she can't be happy for Peter when he is getting praise from the city.

MJ obviously has an inferiority complex (usually these are started by bad childhood's, which she had), so thus my theory has a lot of merit. Does this excuse her actions? No, but it doesn't. But it explains a lot of what she does.

If you disagree, that's cool. I respect your opinion.

 

[Mr Jide]

Damn, its clear some of you havn't been in many relationships. MJ straight up has no right to complain.

 

[Eggyman]

I respect that you at least got what was being attempted, but I disagree; I think it worked. I'd go so far as to say that while there were numerous failures in this film, the Peter-MJ drama was the shining, untouchable accomplishment, where Raimi puts most of his efforts (some would say to the detriment of Spidey, again) and gets at least that one thing just right.

I don't think MJ's innocent; I don't think any of us are. But when the evidence of MJ's "guilt" amounts to dating lots of guys and being snarky when she's pissed at her boyfriend, I can't help but wonder what kind of strange subserviant-concubine-male-fantasy world some of you guys are living in.

Guess we'll agree to differ, eh?

It is indeed strange. I have never had much of a problem with Dunst's portrayal -- or even the MJ-pete relationship. This film I loved (I'm actually pretty tired and am thinking of going watching it soon) but I didn't like MJ as much as I have in the past. The main thing that annoyed me was not how she handled The Kiss, it was before that: I thought Pete was doing well when she was having a bad day when the review came in -- he was showing empathy to her, showing that he understood, that he'd been there (true enough that soon after he does start going on about it again, showing his ego). She threw it in his face. The happy MJ we had seen at the beginning -- 'You said great' -- turned into a very hostile ginger -- 'try to understand how I feel.'

Yes, I understand what they were trying to do. People say that Pete wasn't innocent in this film; I thought that was the whole point -- with the symbiote et all. If they had put MJ in a better light, Pete would have been darker by contrast. I guess what they did worked enough, but I think it could have been handled better.

You can probably say that about anything, though. It's a strange film in general I think. Lately my opinion seems to fluctuate day by day. It's decided, I'm gonna stay on here for a bit, and then I'm gonna go watch it.

 

[DACrowe]

No right?


Reaaaaaaaaaallllly?

So in your relationships your girlfriend has no right to complain about you kissing someone else who likes you on the spur of the moment? Riiiiiiiiiight.

 

[TheVileOne]

But women still complain anyway . . . because they are women .

Guys, it's not just women, but men as well. People, even in loving relationships act irrational and jealous. Why is this such a hard pill to swallow?

 

[Eggyman]

What's good for the goose . . .

 

[TheVileOne]

It wasn't right for MJ to blow off Peter like that and complain. It wasn't right for her to lie about the play and not tell Peter she got fired and was working at a bar. It wasn't right for MJ to run for comfort into the arms of Harry when Aunt May would've been a little phone call away and should've been the one she should see about it. It wasn't right to betray Peter like that, even if she thought it was to protect him from Harry.

But it wasn't right for Peter to act so self-centered. It wasn't right for him to kiss Gwen right in front of Mary Jane. It wasn't right for him to just isolate himself from her when she was trying to put it aside and make amends with him so she can be there for him. It wasn't right for him to rub dating Gwen in her face even though she betrayed him. It wasn't right for him to never explain the Harry situation with her.

They both made mistakes, they both hurt each other. It sucks, but people even people who are deeply in love with each other do that. That's all there is to it.

I had problems with the third movie, but this was not one of them.

 

[Mr Jide]

No right?


Reaaaaaaaaaallllly?

So in your relationships your girlfriend has no right to complain about you kissing someone else who likes you on the spur of the moment? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Of course she can complain but then again, what would be the point? She'll just end up being a hypocrit.

What people need to understand is, MJ wasn't complaining about Peter kissing Gwen, she was pissed at the fact it was "their kiss" that happened. So, it goes to show that MJ wasn't bothered by peter kissing gwen, seeing as she actually and shockingly had the smarts to realise it was a publicity stunt but because it was the special upside down kiss that pete shared with MJ, it made her see red, which is stupid because she did the same thing with John. Why should she share that special kiss with someone she doesn't even love and then go bananas when pete does it for the sake of publicity?....and its not like he planned it or anything.

Which brings me on to this,
MJ gets no love or sympathy from me because she's all messed up. The start of sm2, MJ's waiting for Pete to step up but simultaneously she's dating John, I mean seriously, what the hell? Let's say pete steps up, that means she automatically dumps John. Its sad that people defend this behaviour because MJ's just using John for the sake of convenience as opposed to actually loving him.
Worse yet, MJ takes it the next step further by agreeying to marry a guy she doesn't love, just to get a reaction out of pete, which she does and even has the cheek to get all dolled up in her wedding dress and then come the big day leaves John boy standing at the alter like a muppet. I'm sorry but forget about her selfishness to peter for a second and look at how she used john.

 

[Mr Jide]

It wasn't right for MJ to blow off Peter like that and complain. It wasn't right for her to lie about the play and not tell Peter she got fired and was working at a bar. It wasn't right for MJ to run for comfort into the arms of Harry when Aunt May would've been a little phone call away and should've been the one she should see about it. It wasn't right to betray Peter like that, even if she thought it was to protect him from Harry.

These points by default cancels out any argument MJ and her loyal supporters have against Peter. MJ is just stupid in these movies. I mean she kissed Harry for goodness sake, why? Somebody, please explain to me why MJ kissed Harry, was it because Peter wasn't there or was it because Peter kissed Gwen? Well it cant be those 2 reasons because if it is, then MJ's more stupid than I ever thought possible.
SM1 and 2 had Peter rejecting MJ because of the double life that he lives yet by the end of sm2, MJ's declaring her undying love for him and how she wants to help him cope with being spidey and all that crap, yet, despite all the negative crap he gets, spidey finally gets some love from NY and MJ gets pissed and seeks attention from Harry? Wow, thats some serios ho-like behaviour, that is not how you love someone. As for pete kissing gwen, there's nothing he could do, he didn't plan it and again, its not like MJ was pissed at them too kissing because at least she knew it was a publicity stunt but instead is pissed because its their special kiss. Hell, pete didn't know Gwen was going to snog his lips off, she could have easily kissed him on the cheek but instead does otherwise, that couldn't be helped. So, like how a woman truly loves their man, what does MJ do, she goes off and seeks acceptance and comfort from another man, her ex-b/f at that and kisses him because peter kissed gwen. That sounds spiteful to me and very pathetically immature. Pete isn't perfect no one is but MJ just cannot be defended for her actions.

[/quote]

 

[Abaddon]

Peter always got love from New York. We've seen that in all 3 movies. It was only the Bugle that derided him.

 

[November Rain]

No right?


Reaaaaaaaaaallllly?

So in your relationships your girlfriend has no right to complain about you kissing someone else who likes you on the spur of the moment? Riiiiiiiiiight.

not you but your alter ego and doing it for a crwod...

relate it to a game of truth or dare. it's your turn and you're dared to kiss someone, loads of people are around saying just do it, you give a person a peck on the lips everyone enjoys the jokes but your girlfriend is pissed, even though she's playing truth or dare as well and has already kissed someone.

is that technically fair?

 

[UltimateJustin]

We have no backstory on MJ and John, but I can assume she at least thought she had feelings for him/fell for him while trying to get over Pete and used that kiss, which was the most passionate moment of her life probably, to see if that would spark something, so that she'd know marrying John was a good call. Yeah, MJ probably is a **** as evidenced by the fact that she had a bad childhood and in the comics she is known to give "killer bj's". Thats not the argument here. She didnt even know for sure that Peter was Spiderman when she kissed her fiance, she just knew that kiss was special and if her relationship with John was meaningful she should feel something again. She was in no way going around kissing every guy to see if they were Spiderman. Thats dumb. Her mind was on Pete, she was engaged to John, and she kissed him that way that meant something to her and she felt nothing from it. From that point she was better breaking it off with him than going into a passionless marriage.

When Pete kissed Gwen, he didnt care about the specialness of the spider kiss. He was dating MJ, she was in the crowd, she was upset about the review, and it didnt cross his mind not to share his and MJ's 2002, helped the nation deal with 9/11, special first kiss with another girl. He was caught up in the moment and had a toal bone-on over the fact that everyone there loved him, and thought he could do whatever and it wouldnt matter. MJ used that kiss with another guy because it meant something to her and she wanted to see if it was the kiss or the guy that had made it passionate, Pete knew he kissed MJ that way and probably knew that it was special to her, but was too cocky to respect that moment.

Incidentally, everytime I try to romantically kiss a girl upside down they make fun of me and tell me "dont do that again, thats gay".

 

[November Rain]

Does the fact pete isn't even aware it was 'their' kiss considering she was dating someone else at the time perhaps remove some ammunition from MJ.

How is one supposed to know how somebody feels about a certain event if they aren't told, he seemed fairly oblivious to the her whole argument.



i've placed the scene up to refresh people's memories...

It seems mj is annoyed that 'their kiss' will forever be synonymous with gwen and pete since no one was there to really witness their relationship. SHe is pissed by seeing the newspaper on the way to the restaurant.

MJ is also able to rationalise pete undertaking a role as spiderman and performing because she realises the difference between pete kissing someone as parker and as spidey to be two different scenarios.

To be fair when i originally viewed the scene i thought pete was flirting with gwen but he treats her very flat, he never asks her over and gives her one word answers so he can get on with his date with MJ. I would say that Pete never introduces mj as his girlfriend though but is minor.

pete's obviously oblivious to how much that kiss meant to mj, i'm not sure whether she ever mentions it when tey are in the hospital with aunt may in the first film. By the end of the first film she's quite clearly over it since she had developed feelings for pete and wanted to be with him more than spidey, not to mention she gave it to someone else.

I think her feelings towards the kiss is not as concrete as she makes out, maybe if it was repeated in the second one she would have some grounds to be upset but....i just can't see it.

 

[UltimateJustin]

He's probably oblivious to alot in the relationship, which I'm sure annoys her, but in his defense he fights criminal sand, which most people dont have to do.

 

[The Joker]

Peter always got love from New York. We've seen that in all 3 movies. It was only the Bugle that derided him.

Peter: "Spider-Man wont let me take anymore pictures. You've turned the whole city against him"

Jonah: "A fact I'm very proud of"

- Spider-Man 2

 

[Eggyman]

Peter: "Spider-Man wont let me take anymore pictures. You've turned the whole city against him"

Jonah: "A fact I'm very proud of"

- Spider-Man 2

Well spotted.

I can't believe nobody had 'Joker' as their name until this year lol.