'That was our kiss!!!!' Query?

[November Rain]

I think it was spiderman's and mj's first and only kiss.

Mj's first kiss with peter was at uncle ben's funeral.

if sean connery kissed someone on a beach as james bond, it wouldn't be legitimately his first kiss with the same person as himself.

but this doesn't even help justify the fact if she herself believed that kiss to be so important, then why is she doing it with other people?

 

[Mr Jide]

Just because Betty is shown as a minor character in the other movies means she automatically has to be the female they go with, just becuase she was in them? Gwen isnt major in SM3, but she does have a few key scenes and it works fine establishing someone new. She can give him the key to the city, leading to the kiss, that Betty couldn't really have done. Gwen doesnt have to be a big deal just because she was in the comics twenty years ago. The comics have sucked since the 70's, these movies are here and good now. Good enough.

You just don't get it. The point is, to capitalise on what they already have, while scoring points by including variations of what occured in the source material. Betty in the comics was the first girl Peter fell in love with. Seeing as she's been set up breifly in the past 2 movies, wouldn't it be a better and a much more easier idea to use her as opposed to creating a whole new original character? I don't understand how someone like Raimi can have all the sorce material and the resources he needs at his disposal and still f**k things up.

As for Gwen, assuming she's only in sm3 and will not return, that's a blatant tavesty and a waste of resource on one of the most iconic fictional character in modern mythology. Gwen to this day is influencial on/in the life of spider-man and for her character to be trivialised in just 1 movie for the hell of it, is simply absurd.....and for the record, the comics havn't sucked since the 70s, granted, they havn't been perfect, especially throughout the 90s, that's not to say, using element from any time period of the comics can't be used, granted it's good enough and makes sense.

As for the spider-man movies, they're garbage overall. Favereau could teach Raimi alot about how to direct comic book movies because he seems to be the only one who knows what he's doing.

 

[The Caped Knight]

but this doesn't even help justify the fact if she herself believed that kiss to be so important, then why is she doing it with other people?

What the hell are you talking about ? (With John it was a test,to see if her theory was right {If John not spidey, Then Peter is .} ) The only preson she had an upside down kiss with is Spider-man/Peter Parker .

 

[November Rain]

you see i was under teh same impression but other people have put doubts in my head...

Here's a question:

Was Mj's kiss with john...

to see whether he was spiderman or not

or

to see if she could relive the same passionate moment she did with spidey and get some heat in their relationship.



plenty of people think it is the latter.

 

[The Joker]

What the hell are you talking about ? (With John it was a test,to see if her theory was right {If John not spidey, Then Peter is .} ) The only preson she had an upside down kiss with is Spider-man/Peter Parker .

She was testing to see if John was Spidey?

LOL! No, she wasn't. She never suspected John as Spidey. She was using the kiss to see if she got the same rush as she did kissing Spidey. The sacred kiss she was moaning about in SM-3.

If it was that special, she wouldn't have been trying it on other men.

 

[November Rain]

I personally believed it was a test but that's for another thread

 

[Mr Jide]

to see if she could relive the same passionate moment she did with spidey and get some heat in their relationship.



plenty of people think it is the latter.

Bingo.

 

[Naite22]

She was testing to see if John was Spidey?

LOL! No, she wasn't. She never suspected John as Spidey. She was using the kiss to see if she got the same rush as she did kissing Spidey. The sacred kiss she was moaning about in SM-3.

If it was that special, she wouldn't have been trying it on other men.

Exactly!!! and it was made so clear in the movie, how the hell can one NOT get that!???

 

[Dragon]

you see i was under teh same impression but other people have put doubts in my head...

Here's a question:

Was Mj's kiss with john...

to see whether he was spiderman or not

or

to see if she could relive the same passionate moment she did with spidey and get some heat in their relationship.



plenty of people think it is the latter.

She definitely didn't suspect John of being Spidey. She had no reason to. She had been in close proximity to Spider-man several times. She could see his height and build weren't a match for John. His voice either. She could also see they were a close match to Peter who she says she always figured was Spidey anyway.

The kiss with John was absolutely about her trying to recreate the rush she felt (And honestly- I've kissed girls from that position before- it's not that big a deal) with Spidey. And afterward she called Peter, she didn't try to track down Spider-Man.

 

[November Rain]

meh, john and toby weren't that far off each other's builds...

she'd been in close proximity with parker and spidey before and wasn't able to see the similarities in their voices.

if she hadn't had kissed pete at the funeral, she would have absolutely no idea.

The first kiss mj had with spidey was the initial connection and method of identification.

the second kiss with parker gave her indication that perhaps he kissed similarly to spiderman, it wasn't particularly a passionate kiss from spidey's end and he was merely the reciprocating hers knowing he couldn't be with her.

in the second film she is on a quest to find her true love or spidey i feel. I feel she has an inkling it may be john because he's kind to her, loves her, protects her and has heroic qualities like being an astronaut etc. So she settles for him but unfortunately under the observation of the kiss, she realises it's not him. This then brings us to why MJ wants to kiss pete, so she could than clarify whether or not he is spidey by identifying him with her kiss.

her attempt to kiss pete is a direct correlation with her attempt to kiss john and i feel they were both attempts to find out who spiderman was. I don't think MJ was going to kiss pete to try and see whether or she coudl recapture the same experience she had with spidey.

2 kisses are interlinked, if one is to recapture spidey's passion, then both are to recapture spidey's passion.

if one is to uncover spidey's true identity, then both are to uncover spidey's true identity.

because i believe her wanting to kiss pete in the cafe is for the latter, i must also assume the first kiss is for that.

 

[Dragon]

meh, john and toby weren't that far off

each other's builds...

There was a major difference in their heights and builds. John has a good two inches in height over Peter, with the proportionate weight distribution. And i'd wager John is a good deal bulkier than Peter as well. This is clear in the shots where MJ is walking with John and standing next to Peter after Ock tosses the car.

she'd been in close proximity with parker and spidey before and wasn't able to see the similarities in their voices.

But she says she thinks she always knew. So there had to be some similarities, made obvious by her reaction in the cemetary in Spidey 1 But there was CLEARLY no similarities to John's voice.

her attempt to kiss pete is a direct correlation with her attempt to kiss john and i feel they were both attempts to find out who spiderman was. I don't think MJ was going to kiss pete to try and see whether or she coudl recapture the same experience she had with spidey.

2 kisses are interlinked, if one is to recapture spidey's passion, then both are to recapture spidey's passion.

if one is to uncover spidey's true identity, then both are to uncover spidey's true identity.

because i believe her wanting to kiss pete in the cafe is for the latter, i must also assume the first kiss is for that.

MJ's taste testing was purely about love. it had nothing to do with Spider-Man. She said in Spidey 1 that it was Peter- NOT SPIDER-MAN that she loved. Then after kissing Peter she showed her recognition. She might not have been 100% certain, but she had a strong hunch. Her upside down kiss with John was about comparing the two for passion, not superhumaness..

Her wanting to kiss Peter in the cafe was also obviously not a comparison, but her wanting to prove that Peter loved her. That his words didn't reflect what he really felt.

 

[November Rain]

but pete has already kissed her when he loved her and has shown no compassion or feelings through his kiss with the cemetery scene...

why would another kiss make any difference?

If he can cover it up once, then why not again.

 

[Dragon]

His kiss in the cemetary showed the love. You could see his afterglow when they separated. That's why MJ was shocked when he said he couldn't give her more than friendship. And she knew that after a second such kiss he couldn't hold back.

 

[November Rain]

personally i think mj wanted parker to kiss her so that she could confirm he was spidey and then understand why he didn't want to be with her so she could then try and talk him out of it.

I think she has always known peter has had feelings for her regardless of what he has said or not but she has also believed there might have been something stopping that from happening and she just wanted to pinpoint why...

 

[Dragon]

personally i think mj wanted parker to kiss her so that she could confirm he was spidey and then understand why he didn't want to be with her so she could then try and talk him out of it.

I think she has always known peter has had feelings for her regardless of what he has said or not but she has also believed there might have been something stopping that from happening and she just wanted to pinpoint why...

I agree there. She wanted to know the total "why" of Peter. If he loved her, if he was Spidey, why the hell he denied his feelings, why he had been so unreliable. The whole package.

 

[November Rain]

See i think she wouldn't have gone on with the marriage regardless of knowing peter was spidey or not...

in my eyes, even with her ephiphany at the end of the first film, i think she wanted spidey.

 

[BruceBanner]

Yeah, but their opinion is completely meaningless unless they back it up.

"That would be stupid" has no validity or substance to it. "I think that would be a stupid choice because A, B, C, etc..." does.

I do agree with that, but I also think that to actually say "that's your opinion" is also completely meaningless. Better to just ignore it, or better yet, ask the person to give the reasons for their opinion, instead of saying "that's your opinion", which they already know, cos they're the ones who've said it.

 

[BruceBanner]

Gwen was just thrown in.

Hugely disrespectful to the comics.

 

[BruceBanner]

Well, I've read that Gwen and her father will return but going by what you've said, you've just proved my overall point in that, the inclusion of Gwen's character was simply bad writing by default simply because, If Raimi and the producers were going to go with an original character for the movie, what would be the point? Like I mentioned earlier, we already have Betty, comon sense should tell them that, she's been established briefly already in 2 movies, for the 3rd, lets giver her something more, seeing as she was Parker's first love in the comics But, as fate would have it, Gwen, who is one of the most iconic characters in comicdom gets thrown in for the hell of it and is now a wasted character. God, these movies are a series of bad writing that result in overall mediocrity. I hope to God we get a new cast/director and more importantly a new/more accurate vision.

Are you calling for a reboot? Spidey Begins?

 

[Vile]

MJ has no right to be angry - it was a kiss for the cameras, for show, nothing more. If she loves and trusts him as much as she says she does, there shouldnt be a problem.

...and she SHOULD love and trust him very much, I mean, the guy has ONLY risked his life NUMEROUS times to SAVE hers from certain death.

MJ was, for some odd reason, on a very high horse in this movie.

 

[dodus]

Her wanting to kiss Peter in the cafe was also obviously not a comparison, but her wanting to prove that Peter loved her. That his words didn't reflect what he really felt.

Now you're stretching. She asks Peter to kiss her in the cafe because she "needs to know something." How obvious is it that she wants to test him for Spider-man. You guys are reading way too much into her motivations for kissing John, kissing Peter about love and the nature of romance in MJ's life. It's a movie. She's on a mission to find the guy who kisses like Spider-man, the only guy she really loves.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

MJ kissing John was to determine whether Her Kiss with Peter was as strong as Johns and it wasn't. She was trying to determine if John was Spiderman.

 

[Dragon]

Now you're stretching. She asks Peter to kiss her in the cafe because she "needs to know something." How obvious is it that she wants to test him for Spider-man. You guys are reading way too much into her motivations for kissing John, kissing Peter about love and the nature of romance in MJ's life. It's a movie. She's on a mission to find the guy who kisses like Spider-man, the only guy she really loves.

I'M stretching? I'm going based oin MJ's dialogue. I don't know what you're going based on.

In Spidey 1, in the cemetary she makes it clear that it's PETER, not Spidey she loves- "It wasn't who I thought it'd be- I kept thinking- I hope I get through this so I can see PETER PARKER'S FACE AGAIN". And the clincher: "I LOVE YOU PETER".

She could have easily told Peter she was in love with Spidey if that was the case.

And Spidey 2: "I can't keep thinking about YOU (Peter) It's too painful"

Does she even mention Spider-Man in Spidey 2? Her only feelings for Spider-Man are in that she suspects he's Peter.

Why on Earth would she think some random guy she wound up dating would be Spider-Man with no evdience to base it on? I mean, yeah I think Mj is a doofus, but that's too silly even for her.

As for the kiss in the cafe- again- she sees Peter continually flip-flopping on her. First he loves her, then he bails. Then he wants to start again, then he bails again. She wants to draw his real feelings out of him with a kiss. It's like that song from the 60's "If you wanna know if he loves you so, it's in his kiss".

 

[Dr. Fate]

Hugely disrespectful to the comics.

Yep.

 

[dodus]

Why on Earth would she think some random guy she wound up dating would be Spider-Man with no evdience to base it on? I mean, yeah I think Mj is a doofus, but that's too silly even for her.

As for the kiss in the cafe- again- she sees Peter continually flip-flopping on her. First he loves her, then he bails. Then he wants to start again, then he bails again. She wants to draw his real feelings out of him with a kiss. It's like that song from the 60's "If you wanna know if he loves you so, it's in his kiss".

The implication is that she's dating John because she thinks he *might* be Spider-man. You don't have to agree with me, but IMHO it's pretty clear. What else exactly does he bring to the table? He's not Peter, but...

And as for that kiss in the cafe, I'd almost be persuaded by your analysis if it weren't for what actually comes out of Mary Jane's mouth, as well as the face she makes.

"Kiss me."

"Kiss you?"

"Just one kiss...I need to know something."

Now what could she possibly need to know.