The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[Michael Frost]

Vader died in ROTJ.

Your point being?

And if they are serious about doing a film series with his crew, it feels odd that they would knock off the love interest in the 2nd film. If you establish MJ over the following two films, you can easily have her pick up the pieces of Peter's heart before the end of the 3rd film.

How is it weird to end on a sour note leaving people stoked for the third part that brings resolution?

Having MJ already be around and instantly shove her in Peter's way after Gwen's death not only makes no sense from a human perspective (Parker would be seriously griefing) but it completly takes away from the impact of her death. You need time to separate these events and letting them sink.

"Omg, she died?! What now?!" as opposed to "Oh, she died. I guess Peter can go bang MJ now..."

The audience knows who MJ is. Having her around at the same time as Gwen is just an easy way of saying "**** you, gwen" in people's minds. They know who Parker ends up with...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Your point being?

You can lose someone late in the game who is very important to the lead.

How is it weird to end on a sour note leaving people stoked for the third part that brings resolution?

Having MJ already be around and instantly shove her in Peter's way after Gwen's death not only makes no sense from a human perspective (Parker would be seriously griefing) but it completly takes away from the impact of her death. You need time to separate these events and letting them sink.

"Omg, she died?! What now?!" as opposed to "Oh, she died. I guess Peter can go bang MJ now..."

The audience knows who MJ is. Having her around at the same time as Gwen is just an easy way of saying "**** you, gwen" in people's minds. They know who Parker ends up with...

That is the thing, if she is around before Gwen's death and their friend you wouldn't be shoving her instantly into Peter's way. They don't even have to be together at the end, she would just clearly be the light at the end of the tunnel for Peter.

Using your theory, if MJ ever shows up in this series it would be a sweeping aside of Gwen. Afterall, everyone knows who Peter ends up with. But if Gwen dies in the second film, MJ will overshadow her because she will be the lead female in the third film.

 

[Michael Frost]

You can lose someone late in the game who is very important to the lead.

What?

Vader was the main antagonist of the movies. He was important but he was the resolution to the story they started out two movies ago. Of course they'll end with him. If Vader died in the second movie there would be no need of a third...

That's like saying you can lose Goblin late in the game... Of couse you can, and you should! You're building a story towards this conflict!

Gwen however is essential as the fuel to this story's turning point, not it's resolution.

That is the thing, if she is around before Gwen's death and their friend you wouldn't be shoving her instantly into Peter's way. They don't even have to be together at the end, she would just clearly be the light at the end of the tunnel for Peter.

Using your theory, if MJ ever shows up in this series it would be a sweeping aside of Gwen. Afterall, everyone knows who Peter ends up with. But if Gwen dies in the second film, MJ will overshadow her because she will be the lead female in the third film.

Will she? What do you know that we don't?

It's exactly that "light at the end of the tunnel" that doesn't need to be there otherwise you won't see the main protagonist "in the dark". If you write a situation where your protagonist is supposed to get in a dark place and feel lost and you want to convey that feeling, you don't throw him a light BEFORE he gets in that place or the audience will never believe that he's truly in the dark and they'll just be expecting the obvious light that you gave him to play a role in that... There's no surprise there, it's cookiecutter.

I'd rather that they kept MJ out of the trilogy as much as they can and then MAYBE have her show up at the end of the trilogy in a similar manner to how 500 Days of Summer ended. Subtle and they could pay homage to MJ's first appearance in the comics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What?

Vader was the main antagonist of the movies. He was important but he was the resolution to the story they started out two movies ago. Of course they'll end with him. If Vader died in the second movie there would be no need of a third...

That's like saying you can lose Goblin late in the game... Of couse you can, and you should! You're building a story towards this conflict!

Gwen however is essential as the fuel to this story's turning point, not it's resolution.

Completely wrong. Vader ceases to be the main antagonist , or even really an antagonist, with the last 10 minutes of ESB. Hence the introduction of the Emperor earlier in the film and his physical presence in ROTJ from very early on. If he is broken man in the third film and it is apparent from the opening of the movie. He has let his feelings for his son sway him. It is why Vader doesn't go around murdering people with little thought in ROTJ, unlike the first two films. ROTJ is his redemption.

Will she? What do you know that we don't?

It's exactly that "light at the end of the tunnel" that doesn't need to be there otherwise you won't see the main protagonist "in the dark". If you write a situation where your protagonist is supposed to get in a dark place and feel lost and you want to convey that feeling, you don't throw him a light BEFORE he gets in that place or the audience will never believe that he's truly in the dark and they'll just be expecting the obvious light that you gave him to play a role in that... There's no surprise there, it's cookiecutter.

I'd rather that they kept MJ out of the trilogy as much as they can and then MAYBE have her show up at the end of the trilogy in a similar manner to how 500 Days of Summer ended. Subtle and they could pay homage to MJ's first appearance in the comics.

If Gwen dies in the second film, MJ will be in the third film. Logic and Hollywood dictates this. You are not going to make a solo Superhero flick without a love interest. It is just not going to work.

Having your hero in a dark place does not mean everyone else abandons them or that they must be completely alone. If anything, it would make more sense if Peter cut himself off from his loved ones. His friends and family. There is always light at the end of the tunnel, but it is up the the protagonist to see it.

And you talk of cookiecutter and then suggest they do something rather typical and based in conventional storytelling lore. That is a bit rich. t:

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Ah, Cinestar. The only Theater I know around here that shows the Movies in their original language. And that's why I always go there.

Where are you from?

 

[Michael Frost]

Completely wrong. Vader ceases to be the main antagonist , or even really an antagonist, with the last 10 minutes of ESB. Hence the introduction of the Emperor earlier in the film and his physical presence in ROTJ from very early on. If he is broken man in the third film and it is apparent from the opening of the movie. He has let his feelings for his son sway him. It is why Vader doesn't go around murdering people with little thought in ROTJ, unlike the first two films. ROTJ is his redemption.

How does this contradict anything I've said?

He's deeply involved in the resolution of that story so it's perfectly logical that he stays until the end... He can still be the main antagonist while being a broken man, that's what's so good about that film in particular.

If Gwen dies in the second film, MJ will be in the third film. Logic and Hollywood dictates this. You are not going to make a solo Superhero flick without a love interest. It is just not going to work.

I can name a couple where it did. And even so it would be breaking formula which would feel fresh for a change. I mentioned cookiecutter and you're telling me that Hollywood dictates it...

Having your hero in a dark place does not mean everyone else abandons them or that they must be completely alone. If anything, it would make more sense if Peter cut himself off from his loved ones. His friends and family. There is always light at the end of the tunnel, but it is up the the protagonist to see it.

Indeed it doesn't. But to convey that feeling cinematically, you wouldn't be showing a dark and griefing path and then having him getting all nervous and giddy for this new girl. Following your logic, if Peter cuts himself off from the world the last thing he'll do is go around meeting people... Yet we know that's what will happen the moment we see the girl he's been with in the comics and in the Raimi trilogy for the past years...

And you talk of cookiecutter and then suggest they do something rather typical and based in conventional storytelling lore. That is a bit rich. t:

Don't mix tropes with cookiecutter. Tropes aren't necessarily a bad thing when they're used to their right extent, they exist for a reason and if you're going to make something it's impossible you don't look at what others have done in the past. Cookiecutter however, means uninspired and generic and normally relates to something you can see coming from a mile away. I'm not preaching for any kind of formula here, all I'm saying is that this needs to keep some structure otherwise you'll be ending a trilogy either in a depressing hole or one without that much meaning...

 

[Spider-Who?]

Completely wrong. Vader ceases to be the main antagonist , or even really an antagonist, with the last 10 minutes of ESB. Hence the introduction of the Emperor earlier in the film and his physical presence in ROTJ from very early on. If he is broken man in the third film and it is apparent from the opening of the movie. He has let his feelings for his son sway him. It is why Vader doesn't go around murdering people with little thought in ROTJ, unlike the first two films. ROTJ is his redemption.

Vader is still the antagonist in ROTJ. Being redeemed at the end of it doesn't negate that. Yes, the Emporer is another antagonist, but the brunt of Luke's conflict is with Vader until the end, when he's tag-teamed by them both. Vader is an antagonist until the second he picks up the Emporer.

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As far as Gwen is concerned, having her die in the second is important for the hero's journey. Every hero's journey has that moment of loss and darkness to overcome.

In order to do it justice, you can't shoe-horn her death into the final film. Especially if we want the trilogy to end on a good note. If Marc does Gwen's death, it will happen in the second film.

Mary Jane can either be introduced in a minor role as the party-loving platonic friend in the second film to set the stage for the third - imo, this does not reduce the effect of Gwen's death; remember they were all friends in the comics - OR they can hold off introducing her until the third movie, where Aunt May is trying to set him up on a blind date in an effort to help his grief.

 

[Scarlettess]

Vader is still the antagonist in ROTJ. Being redeemed at the end of it doesn't negate that. Yes, the Emporer is another antagonist, but the brunt of Luke's conflict is with Vader until the end, when he's tag-teamed by them both. Vader is an antagonist until the second he picks up the Emporer.

--------------------

As far as Gwen is concerned, having her die in the second is important for the hero's journey. Every hero's journey has that moment of loss and darkness to overcome.

In order to do it justice, you can't shoe-horn her death into the final film. Especially if we want the trilogy to end on a good note. If Marc does Gwen's death, it will happen in the second film.

Mary Jane can either be introduced in a minor role as the party-loving platonic friend in the second film to set the stage for the third - imo, this does not reduce the effect of Gwen's death; remember they were all friends in the comics - OR they can hold off introducing her until the third movie, where Aunt May is trying to set him up on a blind date in an effort to help his grief.

Well even if her death is in the third doesnt mean it will be shoe-horned in, what if it's the first act? Though I would like Gwen not to be offed till the third, as it would give the audience that much more emotional impact but I agree, this is a trilogy, so the turning point should (and most likely will) come in the second.

I'd much rather the bolded part, have the hero for once without a love interest, myabe using Aunt May or Harry if they decide to bring him in instead in that place. As Mike Frost said above ending the trilogy on MJ's famous entrance would be amazing.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Er can we first see how the first movie turns out before speculating on what may happen in the 3rd?

 

[VenomSpawn]

Er can we first see how the first movie turns out before speculating on what may happen in the 3rd?

No. No we can't.

 

[roach]

No. No we can't.

infact lets start talking about the next reboot

 

[Troy_Parker]

 

[StarLord]

I take it everyone has seen the video with Ifans talking about Oscorp, Lizard etc?

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I take it everyone has seen the video with Ifans talking about Oscorp, Lizard etc?

Yes, everyone has seen that

 

[chamber-music]

http://youtu.be/57Y30I_Ndt8


Check out my music video for The Amazing Spider-Man. Any of you guys who loved the 90's animated series will like this. Check it out if you have a minute !

 

[Spider-Who?]

Well even if her death is in the third doesnt mean it will be shoe-horned in, what if it's the first act? Though I would like Gwen not to be offed till the third, as it would give the audience that much more emotional impact but I agree, this is a trilogy, so the turning point should (and most likely will) come in the second.

IMO, having her death in the first act is a bad idea. Killing Gwen is the worst thing that Goblin does, and you want his worst atrocity to take place in the first 30 minutes of the movie? It needs to happen at the end of Act 2/beginning of Act 3. We need time to let Gobby's character be given a chance to breathe - the audience needs to have as much of the movie as possibly worrying about what Goblin can and will do. We need that tension of not knowing what he has in store. Not only that, but you need the first half (at least) of the film to "prepare" the audience for her death - there needs to be a false sense of security there where we see how Peter and Gwen's relationship is unfolding after ASM1 and 2. And we need to see the emotional turmiol that Peter goes through, and we need to see his eventual redemption from it. IMO, that'll take more than 2/3s of ONE movie.

 

[RealIrOnMaN]

Hey guys, what's up?) 3 more weeks until I'll see the movie! Wow... it's really hard to believe that this is actually happening. It seemed like only yesterday I was at SDCC'11, observing the 'Amazing' panel, lol) I don't know how all of this is going to turn out in the end, but as a big Spidey-fan and one of the promoters of the movie it's exciting to see what Marc, Andrew, Emma, Rhys & others have in store for all of us.

 

[Web face]

Nice! Will you give us a spoiler free review for us after you see it?

 

[RealIrOnMaN]

Nice! Will you give us a spoiler free review for us after you see it?

Depends on the whole embargo thingy, but yes - I'm all up for it + I'm sure I'll be able to say a couple of words b4 that.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Hey RIM, been a while
Great new avvy

 

[Web face]

Depends on the whole embargo thingy, but yes - I'm all up for it + I'm sure I'll be able to say a couple of words b4 that.

Nice Thanks.

 

[GENERAL RAAM582]

I honestly don't see what's so bad about the CGI. The part when Lizard rips the seat looked bad, but other than that I think everything is looking really good. I guess I don't notice bad CGI. The only movies I have ever notice bad CGI was I Am Legend, Spawn, and The Hulk (2003). Otherwise, no other "bad" CGI looked bad to me. I guess I'm blind or something. lol

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

http://youtu.be/57Y30I_Ndt8


Check out my music video for The Amazing Spider-Man. Any of you guys who loved the 90's animated series will like this. Check it out if you have a minute !

That was ****ing awesome! Love the beginning where he's leaping and coming down while the guitar does that... thing. Don't know any rock lingo, but you understand what I mean hopefully.

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

Hey guys, what's up?) 3 more weeks until I'll see the movie! Wow... it's really hard to believe that this is actually happening. It seemed like only yesterday I was at SDCC'11, observing the 'Amazing' panel, lol) I don't know how all of this is going to turn out in the end, but as a big Spidey-fan and one of the promoters of the movie it's exciting to see what Marc, Andrew, Emma, Rhys & others have in store for all of us.

If it does have an embargo would you be able to at least say whether we will like it or not ?

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

That was ****ing awesome! Love the beginning where he's leaping and coming down while the guitar does that... thing. Don't know any rock lingo, but you understand what I mean hopefully.

Thanks buddy ! I am glad you liked it ! Thank you to everyone else as well !