The Amazing Spider-Man v.2

[Themanofbat]

How can I or anyone get interested in this subplot when it's just fanfic theory and absolute horse crap?! Yes, Peter CAN love and live with MJ and be happy and balance his Spidey life with his married life, and he can even have a job. He's had them before and Horizon could have happened to a married Spider just the same so that's not a big deal. We've seen this work for 20 years and now we're supposed to read this issue talking about how it didn't? And we're supposed to take that seriously or care about it?

If you read OMIT (and I think you did), you'll remember that it was MJ that didn't want to live with Peter while he was still going to be Spider-Man... after all these years, and with the recent craziness after Civil War, she had enough... and she was mad that Peter made her remember all of that stuff...

So while "Peter CAN love and live with MJ and be happy and balance his Spidey life", it was ultimately MJ who decided that she could not.

Hope this helps... though I doubt it...

 

[JewishHobbit]

If you read OMIT (and I think you did), you'll remember that it was MJ that didn't want to live with Peter while he was still going to be Spider-Man... after all these years, and with the recent craziness after Civil War, she had enough... and she was mad that Peter made her remember all of that stuff...

So while "Peter CAN love and live with MJ and be happy and balance his Spidey life", it was ultimately MJ who decided that she could not.

Hope this helps... though I doubt it...

No because you aren't getting my thinking here. Remove yourself from the plot within the pages and into the real world with the comic pages in your hands. In the 90's and 2000's Peter and MJ did everything just fine that she's jealous of Carlie over until Quesada pulled the rug out and pretended it didn't happen like that. Now Slott writes this scene from the plot of it NOT working due to the OMIT story. Plot-wise in the BND era it makes sense but us, the readers, KNOW that all of MJ's complaints are pointless because they did survive all that until history was changed. I'm having trouble caring about any subplot of her jealousy over Peter and Carlie being able to live this co-life with Peter and Spider-Man while she wasn't able to... though we saw in the pages we've read over the decades that they can and did.

Does that make sense? It's not a question in the current status quo (love it or hate it) as much as why is Slott going that route as if WE the readers didn't know it worked out already. It's kind of a rediculous plot thread.

It can once again fall in the category of the laughing scene in his debute issue of Big Time. He says he didn't mean it to be offensive to the anti-OMD crowd but it's obvious that it can be taken that way. Something like this can just as easily be mistrude as shoving it in our faces again that MJ and Peter couldn't work (despite that they did).

I'm not going to throw a fuss about it but as I said... it'd be better for fans if they just killed off MJ than give us this shadow of a mockery she's being written as now. And hey, with how much Slott likes killing off characters it could happen next month

 

[Themanofbat]

No because you aren't getting my thinking here. Remove yourself from the plot within the pages and into the real world with the comic pages in your hands. In the 90's and 2000's Peter and MJ did everything just fine that she's jealous of Carlie over until Quesada pulled the rug out and pretended it didn't happen like that. Now Slott writes this scene from the plot of it NOT working due to the OMIT story. Plot-wise in the BND era it makes sense but us, the readers, KNOW that all of MJ's complaints are pointless because they did survive all that until history was changed. I'm having trouble caring about any subplot of her jealousy over Peter and Carlie being able to live this co-life with Peter and Spider-Man while she wasn't able to... though we saw in the pages we've read over the decades that they can and did.

Does that make sense? It's not a question in the current status quo (love it or hate it) as much as why is Slott going that route as if WE the readers didn't know it worked out already. It's kind of a rediculous plot thread.

It can once again fall in the category of the laughing scene in his debute issue of Big Time. He says he didn't mean it to be offensive to the anti-OMD crowd but it's obvious that it can be taken that way. Something like this can just as easily be mistrude as shoving it in our faces again that MJ and Peter couldn't work (despite that they did).

I'm not going to throw a fuss about it but as I said... it'd be better for fans if they just killed off MJ than give us this shadow of a mockery she's being written as now. And hey, with how much Slott likes killing off characters it could happen next month

I think that you're over-thinking it... obviously, they were able to make their relationship work for 5 years (assumed Marvel time... or 20 years our time), but with every passing story, every crazy moment, moments like Peter passing out at MJ's side wimpering the name "Gwen" (see Sins Past), and all the craziness surrounding Civil War... it just got to MJ... to the point that she couldn't take it anymore unless Peter stopped being Spider-Man... which we all know is not going to happen anytime soon...

So she leaves Peter...

Those kinds of feelings don't go away overnight... I think both Peter & MJ have a bond/love for one another, but as long as he's Spider-Man, that's the fine line that keeps them apart... the Spectre of Spider-Man will always come between Peter Parker and those he loves...

Having said that, I can see where Peter's having a "good moment" with a career (not just a job), making some serious cash (when did THAT ever happen when they were together? MJ was the sugar mama), and managing his life properly... I think it's ok for MJ to be somewhat jealous... it demonstartes feelings as opposed to making her look like a ***** (like a LOT of people have suggested in recent years)... even long-time Spidey reader Spider-Gnome says as much...

The way I read it is, MJ really wants Pete to be happy and thought he could be with Carlie. Now that it is actually working, MJ still has feelings for him. I believe she still really loves him. It's just the Spider-Man thing that gets in the way.

I see it as a positive, because I think down the line, they will bring MJ & Pete back together (and no, I don't mean they'll bring the marriage back, but bring them back as a couple).

...and remember... even if Carlie manages to get as close and as deep with Peter like MJ did, whose to say that they would be able to "hold it together"? I don't really think that anyone could... it's that pesky Spectre again...nonetheless, I think it's ok for MJ to feel theway that she did in those panels...

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think that you're over-thinking it... obviously, they were able to make their relationship work for 5 years (assumed Marvel time... or 20 years our time), but with every passing story, every crazy moment, moments like Peter passing out at MJ's side wimpering the name "Gwen" (see Sins Past), and all the craziness surrounding Civil War... it just got to MJ... to the point that she couldn't take it anymore unless Peter stopped being Spider-Man... which we all know is not going to happen anytime soon...

So she leaves Peter...

Those kinds of feelings don't go away overnight... I think both Peter & MJ have a bond/love for one another, but as long as he's Spider-Man, that's the fine line that keeps them apart... the Spectre of Spider-Man will always come between Peter Parker and those he loves...

Having said that, I can see where Peter's having a "good moment" with a career (not just a job), making some serious cash (when did THAT ever happen when they were together? MJ was the sugar mama), and managing his life properly... I think it's ok for MJ to be somewhat jealous... it demonstartes feelings as opposed to making her look like a ***** (like a LOT of people have suggested in recent years)... even long-time Spidey reader Spider-Gnome says as much...

We're still not thinking on the same page here (perhaps I'm not explaining my thoughts properly). In the plot that's been given to us post OMD all that happened. As the reader who read the real plot on the page over 20 years, it's very different, ignoring the forcefed Quesada changes and ending of the marriage. I'm thinking in the confines of how thing splayed out previous to that, outside the plot.

As is usual, I've found a lot of BND supporters and anti-OMDers can't think within the same lines. They see Spidey's history as different and read the panels differently, and thus things like this just don't match in in our minds.

With that in mind there's no point in arguing about it (as it's prone to grow to) so I'll just move on.

...and remember... even if Carlie manages to get as close and as deep with Peter like MJ did, whose to say that they would be able to "hold it together"? I don't really think that anyone could... it's that pesky Spectre again...nonetheless, I think it's ok for MJ to feel theway that she did in those panels...

Honestly, if Marvel is so strong about this 'Spectre of Spider-Man' as you call it, I fail to see why they ever bother to even mess with a love life. There's no point or joy to failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship forever and ever on end. If that's the case then just write Spider-Man and be done with it. Honestly, I think this 'spectre of Spider-Man' severely limits the character, the comics, and the enjoyment they bring. Enjoy the new love... no, don't get attached she's got a time limit on her. Enjoy the new job at Horizon... no, wait, don't get too attached it's got a time limit. Enjoy this happy moment with Peter... no, wait, dn't get too attached it's got a time limit.

If they repeat this pattern over and over again because of the 'spectre of Spider-Man' then eventually they'll catch on and grow bored with the comic. They'll see how pointless the character is and will move on to other comics and companies who can provide a believable 'everyman' who actually gets happy endings mixed in with his failures. No one enjoys stagnation.

That's why the marriage worked. Peter broke out of the 'spectre' and won for once. Now that that's been foolishly erased we're back in the same old same old boring relationship struggles and failures. I can't and won't root for Carlie or anyone else because it can't and won't work, and the same goes for this job and anything else that goes good. And really, who wants to read a book about failures?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

We're still not thinking on the same page here (perhaps I'm not explaining my thoughts properly). In the plot that's been given to us post OMD all that happened. As the reader who read the real plot on the page over 20 years, it's very different, ignoring the forcefed Quesada changes and ending of the marriage. I'm thinking in the confines of how thing splayed out previous to that, outside the plot.

As is usual, I've found a lot of BND supporters and anti-OMDers can't think within the same lines. They see Spidey's history as different and read the panels differently, and thus things like this just don't match in in our minds.

With that in mind there's no point in arguing about it (as it's prone to grow to) so I'll just move on.




Honestly, if Marvel is so strong about this 'Spectre of Spider-Man' as you call it, I fail to see why they ever bother to even mess with a love life. There's no point or joy to failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship forever and ever on end. If that's the case then just write Spider-Man and be done with it. Honestly, I think this 'spectre of Spider-Man' severely limits the character, the comics, and the enjoyment they bring. Enjoy the new love... no, don't get attached she's got a time limit on her. Enjoy the new job at Horizon... no, wait, don't get too attached it's got a time limit. Enjoy this happy moment with Peter... no, wait, dn't get too attached it's got a time limit.

If they repeat this pattern over and over again because of the 'spectre of Spider-Man' then eventually they'll catch on and grow bored with the comic. They'll see how pointless the character is and will move on to other comics and companies who can provide a believable 'everyman' who actually gets happy endings mixed in with his failures. No one enjoys stagnation.

That's why the marriage worked. Peter broke out of the 'spectre' and won for once. Now that that's been foolishly erased we're back in the same old same old boring relationship struggles and failures. I can't and won't root for Carlie or anyone else because it can't and won't work, and the same goes for this job and anything else that goes good. And really, who wants to read a book about failures?

well said

 

[Themanofbat]

Honestly, if Marvel is so strong about this 'Spectre of Spider-Man' as you call it, I fail to see why they ever bother to even mess with a love life. There's no point or joy to failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship forever and ever on end. If that's the case then just write Spider-Man and be done with it. Honestly, I think this 'spectre of Spider-Man' severely limits the character, the comics, and the enjoyment they bring. Enjoy the new love... no, don't get attached she's got a time limit on her. Enjoy the new job at Horizon... no, wait, don't get too attached it's got a time limit. Enjoy this happy moment with Peter... no, wait, dn't get too attached it's got a time limit.

As per our mutual desire to not let this get turned into yet another stupid argument, I'll just comment on the above part of your post.

The reason the aforementioned "Spectre of Spider-Man" works, as it has for many years, is part of the fact that Peter keeps "trying" to make a normal life for himself... it's that continual effort put forth by Peter Parker that makes us all love him more and want him to succeed, even though we all know that his responsibilities as Spider-Man will interfere...

He's not Bruce Wayne, who uses that "false" image when he's not Batman... Bruce is Batman 24/7, whether he's wearing a costume or not... but when Peter Parker takes his costume off, he wants a normal life like everybody else, even though in the end, he will never get that while he has responsibilities as Spider-Man...

I hope that makes sense....

 

[JewishHobbit]

As per our mutual desire to not let this get turned into yet another stupid argument, I'll just comment on the above part of your post.

The reason the aforementioned "Spectre of Spider-Man" works, as it has for many years, is part of the fact that Peter keeps "trying" to make a normal life for himself... it's that continual effort put forth by Peter Parker that makes us all love him more and want him to succeed, even though we all know that his responsibilities as Spider-Man will interfere...

He's not Bruce Wayne, who uses that "false" image when he's not Batman... Bruce is Batman 24/7, whether he's wearing a costume or not... but when Peter Parker takes his costume off, he wants a normal life like everybody else, even though in the end, he will never get that while he has responsibilities as Spider-Man...

I hope that makes sense....

You do, I just find nothing appealing about that.

 

[K.B.]

Really loved this opening arc, it was a pretty good read overall and really has me interested in Spidey again especially after all the BND/OMD/OMIT suckfest.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I really enjoyed today's issue and even some moments with Carlie.

 

[iloveclones]

I really enjoyed today's issue and even some moments with Carlie.

That's it! She's dead. Dead, I tell you....D-E-A-D, dead. Dan, he was kidding! He still hates her.

Carlie, avoid bridges!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I still don't care enough about her. She just had some cute moments in this issue. So by all means walk towards the bridge, Carlie. Yes. Now conveniently trip.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Damn scoops on movies! It's bringing back the Hype lag. I blame Anne Hathway and Tom Hardy the most!

 

[shogunrua]

I liked the last issue, especially seing Gargan back as the Scorpion (it happened in the issue before I know lol), I was tired of seeing him as Venom. I also liked that little throwback to that old issue where Spidey saved Jameson's son

I also am not a fan of Marvel liking to keep on pummeling Peter to the ground, because it's so repetitive, maybe when he was in high school and college it was fine but as a young grown man, I think it has no more point. I know Marvel wants Peter to be their every man, but as someone already said, life isn't just about failures and bad ending. That said, I really enjoy Big Time so far, it's nice to see Peter finally having some sort of stability in his life, and I hope it will keep on going as long as possible (because I think it's pretty obvious that maybe Carlie will die and/or he'll get fired and/or his nice job is secretly evil bla bla bla...)

Now about MJ...well I'll be honest, in this issue she looked like "Spider Man 3" MJ to me. So when Peter has problems, is in deep trouble etc... she can't take it anymore (which I can understand, my professionnal life messed with some of my relations too), but when Peter has finally made some kind of a life for himself, she complaints it's not with her ? So she only wants the positive side but not the negative side ? What makes it even worse for her is that she's in this situation because she wanted it. So no she looked like an egocentrical prick to me in this issue.

 

[iloveclones]

Wow, that's some scathing comments on MJ.

I see her reaction as pretty realistic. It can't be easy to be the ex and continue to be friends (I know I sure as hell have never done it.) And I'm sure people that do that experience some pretty conflicting emotions, especially at the beginning.

I look forward to MJ dating someone Pete is convinced is a supervillain (but isn't). That should cause some fireworks.

 

[shogunrua]

Wow, that's some scathing comments on MJ.

I see her reaction as pretty realistic. It can't be easy to be the ex and continue to be friends (I know I sure as hell have never done it.) And I'm sure people that do that experience some pretty conflicting emotions, especially at the beginning.

I look forward to MJ dating someone Pete is convinced is a supervillain (but isn't). That should cause some fireworks.

I understand that it's hard to try to be friends and see its ex dating someone else, but that was not the point that bothered me. What bothered me is that after OMIT where she pretty much says she wants to be with Peter but that she can't because of his Spider-Man's life (which is understandable), now that he has found some sort of stability with everything in his life, she complaints that it's not with her...She "hasn't the right" to play the bitter ex girlfriend. It's kind of unfair for Peter, pretty much like Black Cat wanting Spider-Man, but not Peter Parker. She also asked why Peter won't tell Carlie his secret identity, which I found really hypocrite coming from her (she is the best placed to know why knowing Peter's secret isn't a good idea...she dumped him BECAUSE she knew that secret).

Let's put it this way, if in OMIT it was Peter who dumped MJ, I would have found her comments in last issue normal.
But yeah I hope she'll date someone soon, to see how Peter will react (I guess not that good lol), and to break that weird dynamic because I personnaly don't like it.

On another note, I really like the art, I think Caselli's art suits Spidey very well

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wow, MJ sounds like a real b**** after OMIT.

 

[iloveclones]

Wow, MJ sounds like a real b**** after OMIT.

She's not.

She's sounds *****y because she doesn't spend all of her time praising Pete and waiting by the window for him.

It's sad when people stop being the doormat we expect them to be.

 

[iloveclones]

I understand that it's hard to try to be friends and see its ex dating someone else, but that was not the point that bothered me. What bothered me is that after OMIT where she pretty much says she wants to be with Peter but that she can't because of his Spider-Man's life (which is understandable), now that he has found some sort of stability with everything in his life, she complaints that it's not with her...She "hasn't the right" to play the bitter ex girlfriend. It's kind of unfair for Peter, pretty much like Black Cat wanting Spider-Man, but not Peter Parker. She also asked why Peter won't tell Carlie his secret identity, which I found really hypocrite coming from her (she is the best placed to know why knowing Peter's secret isn't a good idea...she dumped him BECAUSE she knew that secret).

Let's put it this way, if in OMIT it was Peter who dumped MJ, I would have found her comments in last issue normal.
But yeah I hope she'll date someone soon, to see how Peter will react (I guess not that good lol), and to break that weird dynamic because I personnaly don't like it.

On another note, I really like the art, I think Caselli's art suits Spidey very well

I couldn't disagree more. She's trying to be a part of Pete's life, even to the point of going to the new g-f's event. Just because we can hear her internal thoughts, doesn't mean that she's going to act on them. There's nothing hypocritical at all. I find it to be completely expected. In fact, I would find it odd if she just easily moved on without regrets.

As far as MJ asking Pete if she's told Carlie about his secret id: again, here's a MJ that I can get behind. At some point, Pete will have to tell her, and maybe MJ thinks he should be honest from the get go. It doesn't mean she's right. It mean's she has her own idea on the matter.

 

[shogunrua]

I couldn't disagree more. She's trying to be a part of Pete's life, even to the point of going to the new g-f's event. Just because we can hear her internal thoughts, doesn't mean that she's going to act on them. There's nothing hypocritical at all. I find it to be completely expected. In fact, I would find it odd if she just easily moved on without regrets.

As far as MJ asking Pete if she's told Carlie about his secret id: again, here's a MJ that I can get behind. At some point, Pete will have to tell her, and maybe MJ thinks he should be honest from the get go. It doesn't mean she's right. It mean's she has her own idea on the matter.

I think we agree that we disagree

On another topic, I was reading this issue again and well, I'm sure it's already been discussed, but the teaser for issue 654.1 shows the new Venom which looks pretty much like when Gargan was bonded with the symbiote. But the art showing the new Venom from his ongoing series portrays him as some sort of black ops dude with a big white spider on his chest. What are the hypothesis on this topic ? Two different hosts ?

 

[iloveclones]

I think we agree that we disagree

My kinda guy. Let's run for Congress...

 

[Shockdingo]

What are the hypothesis on this topic ? Two different hosts ?

In the art for the new venom, he's also been shown as classic Brock-style. I think he'll cycle through looks before settling on the Black OPS look for missions. Upon first bonding I think he'll be briefly berserk as classic style, become Gargan-style as he slowly stabilizes (or vice versa) and then goes symbiote Spidey till he settles on his look.

 

[WolfCypher]

Like Gargan-Venom (and Toxin), he'll probably be able to "Hulk-Out" and grow to ridiculous porportions, teeth and tounge included, then go back to looking like GI Joe's Snake-Eyes with a symbiote. Eeeerrrhhh...!

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

anyone else getting sick of that one page being dedicated to why peter and mj can't be together at the start of each arc. they did it again with the new spider slayers story, only this time it's teased mj still wants to be with him

 

[Shockdingo]

*raises hand; wishes for the aid only the gin monkey can bring*

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, Marvel worked really hard on getting to that point. They've gotta get their money's worth.