The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spiderman 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 3

[jmc]

It's an oversimplification, but it seems to me the general sentiment about the directors is that Webb's strength is the romance and relationship aspect of Peter/Spidey, which emcompasses Gwen's fate, but that he's weak in regards to the characterization of his villains... Raimi is a master of horror and his strength might be the villains, but less the viewers' emotional investment in the hero characters, and Nolan is a master of gritty style and tone. I agree about the Rachel death, I hardly felt a thing about it. But Webb has played with my emotional strings in his films.

The villains thing is very interesting. Spider-Man is probably second only to Batman it terms of having the best rogues gallery in comics, yet in two films under Webb all three (four if you include Rhino) have come up well short of having interesting character arcs for any of them. It's kinda inexcusable IMO that a character with such a rich gallery of memorable villains has yet to in this series have a genuinely good or memorable adversary.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Spoiler

Gwen's death felt so sudden and should have been done in third movie.

After seeing 5 Spider-Man films on the big screen, I think going with one villain is the way to go. I think multiple villains can work when their stories can be told as one(Venom/Carnage, Lizard/Kraven, Goblins) or when you can develop their characters over time.

6/10

 

[matt47]

QFT

The Raimi films can be a campy as they want to much acclaim (the first 2 anyway) but the "camp" in this film is Batman and Robin 2.

When in this movie is it Batman and Robin?

 

[ironman29758]

When in this movie is it Batman and Robin?

I think he meant that when Raimi Spider-Man is campy people are okay but when this movie does it they complain it's like Batman and Robin and he feels it's hypocritical.

 

[matt47]

I think he meant that when Raimi Spider-Man is campy people are okay but when this movie does it they complain it's like Batman and Robin and he feels it's hypocritical.

I just don't get how anything in this movie is on B&R campy levels. Spider man needs jokes and fun, it's who the character is.

 

[DACrowe]

It's an oversimplification, but it seems to me the general sentiment about the directors is that Webb's strength is the romance and relationship aspect of Peter/Spidey, which emcompasses Gwen's fate, but that he's weak in regards to the characterization of his villains... Raimi is a master of horror and his strength might be the villains, but less the viewers' emotional investment in the hero characters, and Nolan is a master of gritty style and tone. I agree about the Rachel death, I hardly felt a thing about it. But Webb has played with my emotional strings in his films.

I would say Raimi does the villains better, but he did a great job of getting you to invest in his characters. Stone's Gwen is better than Dunst's MJ, but neither arc for Peter was as engaging as how Raimi invested audiences into Spider-Man: No More or even Raimi's take on the origin.

If you want to say Webb does something better, it is displaying the humor and smoothness of Spidey while in costume.

 

[grieven]

I would say Raimi does the villains better, but he did a great job of getting you to invest in his characters. Stone's Gwen is better than Dunst's MJ, but neither arc for Peter was as engaging as how Raimi invested audiences into Spider-Man: No More or even Raimi's take on the origin.

If you want to say Webb does something better, it is displaying the humor and smoothness of Spidey while in costume.

I enjoyed Raimi's Spider-Man films but never got into the Peter/MJ relationship anywhere near what I do with Webb's Peter/Gwen relationship. The budding relationship between Peter and Gwen in TASM was the best I've ever seen in a cbm, and by just about all accounts I've read, the dynamic between the 2 in TASM2 is magic. That's what makes Gwen's demise so heart wrenching.

There are some good moments between Maguire and Dunst in the first 2 SM movies, but unfortunately some of it was undone in SM3. I don't believe there was ever the type of chemistry that's shared between Garfield and Stone. That type of young love and heartache is what Webb excels at and is so well portrayed in the TASM movies.

Plus a majority of MJ's role was to scream and be a damsel in distress or dwell on some of her own selfish or petty issues, which made me invest less in her and her on-again-off-again relationship with Peter.

 

[Nemeres]

So, I FINALLY saw this. Talk about a slow-moving couple of weeks, huh? A quick review:

Spoiler

The lowered expectations helped. I had to problem enjoying this film during its first third. It flowed smoothly, didn't bore me and it was full-on colorful, lively, reasonably fun Spidey goodness. At every turn I kept expecting the dreaded and much talked-about flaws, but they took their time arriving... and when they did, it was a pretty sneaky transition.

It's funny watching a movie while being an active internet-using fanboy. You don't just watch it; you watch it while thinking, "Oh, this is what this reviewer meant", or "That's what that SHH user was talking about", or even "Ha, I bet HISHE is gonna spoof the crap out of this". So my first surprise was realizing that I just wasn't bothered by some of the things that so many had pegged as bothersome. The dubstep? Dr Kafka's accent and eyeliner? Cheesy one-liners? They just slid over me. I had no problem in accepting them as part of the film's stylistic choices. I didn't even think about them. It was similar with Max Dillon. While that wasn't the Electro I would have wanted to see, I went along with it. He's nerdy and he's a fanboy. Fine. But then the motivations came. And when a character's transformation is so clumsy and jarring, you just can't continue to go along, because what you think is, "Well, the film needs this to happen, so that's why this is happening". It's not smooth, it's not organic, and it's certainly not earned. A poor, ill-conceived and ultimately boring villain all around. Jamie Foxx does what he can, but... sigh. Harry is better, but when his GG comes, it's much too rushed for it to feel like the film needed him for anything OTHER than to kill a certain someone.

Then the whole Oscorp/Harry/parents intrigue kicked into gear... and that's when the film started to lose me. Before watching it I asked a couple of people if the film ever dragged. It does, as it turns out, at least for me. I realized that there was a lot happening (not TOO much, actually; the plot didn't feel as "tangled" as I was fearing), but none of it was particularly... interesting. It ties up its plot threads, it advances its story... but it felt like dead weight. "Baby fat", as one reviewer called it. It was no longer the delicious Spidey-ness that the film started out giving in spades (also, seriously, how does a kid like Harry get into Ravencroft so easily? Gtfo).

Of course all of this is sprinkled with the endlessly-praised scenes between Peter and Gwen, and a couple of him and Aunt May. Very good stuff. I think a big flaw in the film is how challenging it makes it to enjoy the goodness right after it gets so close to losing you with the blandness. But I guess it ultimately succeeds, because it was hard not to smile at how good the romance was. The humor works very well too. My theater ate it up like it was Cerelac with condensed milk. And when build-up started for The Scene (after a mostly meh final fight with Electro) I swear my heart started to race. Guys, there's no Scene without Garfield. Garfield IS The Scene. Thank God for him. It was beyond powerful (and not for nothing, but I don't even want to think about where this movie would be critically without that Scene. "Save it for the third film" my ass).

There's a lot to enjoy, but it's impossible to shake off the feeling that things could have been done much better. The film is still very fresh in my head -I still have chunks of popcorn in my teeth as I write this- and it's all bound to fluctuate upon subsequent viewings. But as it stands right now, I think I'll give the film a 7/10.

 

[miltonh]

Saw it twice and nice cinematography, 3D, AG / ES plus Giamatti and Jones could be fun in ASM3 however... this is clearly the worst Spidey movie yet! Max Dillon... like are they serious?? And Harry's storyline... Or the fact that villains are just some episodic characters with no plans or targets. Awful movie. Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Batman & Robin, Spider-Man 3... at least those movie were fun but this one is just awful. If Sony won't hire real screenwriters then I have literally no expectations for ASM3.

3/10

 

[Drz]

Also! one more thing before I forget! They played the 60s theme quite a bit in the movie as a wee easter egg. It was Peter's ringtone which I felt was a really cool touch.

He also whistles it when taking down Rhino.

 

[LizardMan07]

Saw it twice and nice cinematography, 3D, AG / ES plus Giamatti and Jones could be fun in ASM3 however... this is clearly the worst Spidey movie yet! Max Dillon... like are they serious?? And Harry's storyline... Or the fact that villains are just some episodic characters with no plans or targets. Awful movie. Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Batman & Robin, Spider-Man 3... at least those movie were fun but this one is just awful. If Sony won't hire real screenwriters then I have literally no expectations for ASM3.

3/10

Can you expand upon your ideas a little bit if you have time? No offense but you didn't really explain anything you liked or disliked about the movie.

3/10 is very harsh. Does that mean you thought that scene at the end, Andrew/Emma/Dane's performances and the way spiderman was portrayed on screen wasn't well done? As those are the elements that do seem to be universally praised

 

[matt47]

He also whistles it when taking down Rhino.

Wasn't a big fan of when he whistles it. That plus Paul's campyness was a bit too much...camp? in that scene. Other than that I loved him! Epecially when he says at the end, "You fight me! You fight me now...eeeeeahhhh!" While flopping his Rhino arms everywhere...made me think he was a little drunk on his russian vodka haha

 

[Leenie]

I still think that Webb has been extremely unlucky in terms of the villains. Raimi got to use all the A list villains and Webb is stuck with the B and C list ones and struggles to give them a personality. I wonder whether Harry is going to be the one and final GG or Norman will become the ultimate GG in the third installment.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I consider Lizard to be an A-list villain. Most people know who Lizard is without having read a Spider-Man comic, and the general audience had been waiting patiently for Lizard to show up in a Spider-Man film (that's why he was the first choice for the reboot). And Green Goblin is the A-list villain (yes, moreso than Venom), but it sounds like Webb dropped the ball on utilizing him properly (I still need to see the movie to form my opinion on this though).

Also, how is Norman as GG going to be Spider-Man's arch nemesis? It was Harry who killed Gwen, and it's established in the movie that Peter and Harry are "best friends." Introducing that history between the two characters leads me to believe that Harry is Peter's arch nemesis. If they make Norman the big baddy, it just wouldn't make sense at all in the context of these movies. Methinks the writers are shooting themselves in the feet.

 

[Levsky]

That was absolutely fantastic movie. I'm more impressed than I was after the first one came out. It's another proof of Webb's dominance over Raimi's vision.

Besides, I'd like to notice one thing I have already written about in the other thread. I presume everyone knows now that the man in the shadows is The Gentleman (just as some of us speculated here). The female voice from elevator calls him in one scene towards the end of the film "Mr Fiers" and The Gentleman's true name is Gustav Fiers. I don't think it's another
coincidence.

 

[Daywalker89]

When in this movie is it Batman and Robin?

I think its more in vain with batman forever to be honest but mainly it comes down to how Max is handled. Most people can't get over how campy his scenes are, how he looks and his score do him no such favours. His transitions from that to Electro will throw people off. Rhino's just over the top (i was ok with it) but again he was only in the film for a few minutes so that helped i guess. People applying the B&R comparrison to spidey need to get the **** out. His portrayal is one of the best on screen moments in CBM.

Its just some folks are getting abit tired of Spiderman's villians not getting the grade A considering his rouge of villians have such a rich history and the amount of films have just about scratched the surface.

 

[matt47]

To me these Webb films seem to be much more focused on the relationships rather than the good vs evil that every other superhero film does and I think people aren't used to that. I loved it personally.

 

[Daywalker89]

To me these Webb films seem to be much more focused on the relationships rather than the good vs evil that every other superhero film does and I think people aren't used to that. I loved it personally.

Yea true but it ain't as black and white as that. Another comparrison that gets thrown around by the public about this franchise is that the love story compares to twilight. Some fans say that the relationship between peter and gwen is the core part of the story which i agree with others want to see justice done with the villians is these movies. IMO they have been average.

Marc Webb has nailed that core story between those two but now [BLACKOUT]she's dead [/BLACKOUT] he has to build on the foundations again with a certain MJ. When TASM3 happens he can not afford to sideline the villians again for another apparent love story. Thanfully for him Sinister 6 may expliot his weakness in that regard.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

To me these Webb films seem to be much more focused on the relationships rather than the good vs evil that every other superhero film does and I think people aren't used to that. I loved it personally.

These movies need balance, and now that Gwen's out Webb's best element will be gone, so he'll have to pull himself together for the next one.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think he meant that when Raimi Spider-Man is campy people are okay but when this movie does it they complain it's like Batman and Robin and he feels it's hypocritical.

thats a good point though, raimis were just as or maybe even more campy then TASM2

[YT]nL8hVXSDmNM[/YT]

its weird its like people have suddenly opened their eyes now its a reboot and are like heeey this is kinda campy what the hell

 

[spider-neil]

Edit that SK before you can banned

 

[starkresilient]

in my opinion the campiness worked better with raimi's movies because of the general tone of his movies. though I don't mind campiness in CBMs unless the tone is all over the place and they sell it as a serious movie. then those scenes feel awkward and out of place.

Marc Webb has nailed that core story between those two but now [BLACKOUT]she's dead [/BLACKOUT] he has to build on the foundations again with a certain MJ. When TASM3 happens he can not afford to sideline the villians again for another apparent love story. Thanfully for him Sinister 6 may expliot his weakness in that regard.

That's why I am hoping for Webb to introduce MJ but just as friends so Spider-man can focus on some good developed villian(s) in TASM3. It will be very hard to find an actress to create the same chemistry between Gwen/Peter so I hope we absolutely see no romantic indications between Peter/MJ in TASM3

 

[AnneFan]

I hope what people call 'campiness' never, ever leaves Spider-Man films.

 

[Nathan]

I hope what people call 'campiness' never, ever leaves Spider-Man films.

As long as it's not random dancing on the street, it's fine.

 

[LaughingMage]

Jaaaaeeeesus, what a mess of a movie. 04/10

 

[Daywalker89]

in my opinion the campiness worked better with raimi's movies because of the general tone of his movies. though I don't mind campiness in CBMs unless the tone is all over the place and they sell it as a serious movie. then those scenes feel awkward and out of place.

Exactly my thoughts, thats why people are confused on the tone of this film.

That's why I am hoping for Webb to introduce MJ but just as friends so Spider-man can focus on some good developed villian(s) in TASM3. It will be very hard to find an actress to create the same chemistry between Gwen/Peter so I hope we absolutely see no romantic indications between Peter/MJ in TASM3

The best way to go Stark. Webb will make Gwen's death felt throughout ASM3. They need to build the MJ friendship/relationship carefully though there will be backlash if its not handled properly.