The Atheism Thread - Part 7

[KevanG]

I love my appendix and you can't force us apart!

 

[rodhulk]

You're missing the whole concept of mutations.

You don't have to buy into anything, but the evidence backs up evolution (micro and macro).

I'm not sure. What I'm trying to say is that I haven't seen or understood things the way evolutionists present them. I feel it important to test things so I can further my Christian understanding and this includes testing both the pro and con of evolution to get the best answer. We all should to make sure we're making the best decision to our ability.

My history is this. I used to not even believe in any form of evolution when I first became a Christian because that is what I was taught. But I like to search things out on my own to make sure that every decision I make is what I believe (scripture even says each person is responsible for themselves). When I researched things on my own to make my own decisions (and this included Christians doctrines like the rapture, etc...), I found evolution to be true and found that many Christians do, in fact, believe it. But I also found it was not to what is presented by the pro evolutionists to what I had found (and this was true with many Christians, as well).

And so to my searching, micro evolution is true. Small changes have been observed. Macro evolution is true, also. But only to something like a new breed of dog. But the dog remains a dog. I do not believe that over a vast amount of time species have evolved into something new from a common ancestor. The Bible says "after their kind" and that is what I have only found (to my understanding) in our world today, all life remains what it is already (inside the breed or perhaps family), hence why we have different breeds of animals like dogs. Even that fruit fly in the science lab remained a fruit fly despite some changes the scientists were able to do with it. I'm sure you're familiar with that story.

So, everything in evolution that I see as a fact is exactly what the Bible said life would be like. I personally find this amazing.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Crazy thought, but maybe you should stop trying to use the Bible as a science book, and start using a science book as a science book.

 

[rodhulk]

The Bible details the basic information on life on the planet. I have used other sources or else how would I know things like the micro and macro evolution with dog breeds, etc... No, I don't know science like a lot of you (and I do continue to study it) but as mentioned in an above post, it's all to my understanding and I find it remarkable that evolution fits exactly the basic details of the Bible, again, IMHO.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It fits because you want it to fit.

Right now you're just willfully ignoring all the indisputable evidence presented to you.

 

[rodhulk]

Could I not say the same about you? Perhaps you are scared of the truth.

But you also just say that ignoring the possibility that I was honest above and accepted things this way because that is how I view them and understand them. If this isn't good enough for you then nothing I say ever will. That's why what I say is not meant for you. My message is to those who are hungry, not full!

 

[Thundercrack85]

Could I not say the same about you? Perhaps you are scared of the truth.

But you also just say that ignoring the possibility that I was honest above and accepted things this way because that is how I view them and understand them. If this isn't good enough for you then nothing I say ever will. That's why what I say is not meant for you. My message is to those who are hungry, not full!

No you can't. I require evidence.

 

[rodhulk]

You have to admit that if that that does make cetaceans a rather oddly designed bunch of animals then.

It also raises some questions about bats.

And then there are vestigial organs... Was the creator just lazy when he left in the wisdom teeth and tailbones when he made humans?

Perhaps these vestigial organs are from when people lived hundreds of years in age.

 

[rodhulk]

No you can't. I require evidence.

I ask for the same since you accused me of choosing to fit things where I want them to fit.

EDIT: I do see where you went with the "require evidence," but things are the way they are...

 

[Doctor Evo]

Perhaps these vestigial organs are from when people lived hundreds of years in age.

How exactly does this make any sense whatsoever?

 

[Anubis]

Well, the Bible told him so.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Oh I misread that, never mind.

 

[rodhulk]

Well, the Bible told him so.

Source?

 

[Anubis]

Everything you ever posted here.

 

[rodhulk]

How exactly does this make any sense whatsoever?

At best, evidence of vestigial organs in man demonstrates deterioration and loss of information since the Fall. They are evolutionary relics of common ancestors with animals only if you begin with evolutionary presuppositions.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Honestly, given how even young earth creationists accept that poodles, chihuahuas, and great danes came from a wolf, and technically haven't speciated yet (is that a word?) I don't see why evolution is hard to believe.

Yes, speciated is indeed a word, and I'm not convinced that a Great Dane and a chihuahua could actually be considered the same species, depending upon the definition employed.

 

[rodhulk]

Everything you ever posted here.

That's not what I asked?

 

[Anubis]

And yet, it is.

 

[Doctor Evo]

I beg to differ if it's an "absolute" fact on the universe and earth being billions of years old but..... it's not one that I can really defend either way since the scripture leaves that open. If it is an absolute fact, note the "if," that's fine and that means nothing in changing the beginning of the earth and universe from a biblical perspective from what I read at the beginning of Genesis.

I am aware that macro evolution does not occur in a lifetime and we will not observe it. That was not the point I was trying to make. That said, we still haven't observed it so we need to look elsewhere for evidence as per macro evolution. Same with God. We're yet to observe him so we need to look elsewhere for that evidence. Prophecy is a piece of that. With that, I'm yet to see the 100% fact that macro evolution to the extent you are presenting it is a fact. What I am saying is not that macro evolution has never happened but that I do not believe people, for example and no matter how far back we go and through so many micro changes, that man is related to dolphins and foxes (via a common ancestor).

I believe in micro evolution as God said "after their kinds." Exactly what "after their kinds" he is referring to is debateable but as per above, I do not believe people can be traced back to dolphins and foxes or anywhere to the animal kingdom. The "after their kinds" seems to be in line with new breeds of dogs, for example. But the dog remains a dog.

Do me a favor. Please explain:

1) Your definition of "microevolution."

2) Your definition of "macroevolution."

3) Your understanding of the relationship between the two.

Be as specific (and concise) as possible.

 

[rodhulk]

And yet, it is.

Well, it wasn't but that's OK.

 

[rodhulk]

Do me a favor. Please explain:

1) Your definition of "microevolution."

2) Your definition of "macroevolution."

3) Your understanding of the relationship between the two.

Be as specific (and concise) as possible.

After having already talked about this with another poster or two above, if I said something wrong, then point it out.

In any case, you received an answer to the organ question above, obviously you are trying to take this somewhere else at this point and so I'll say the same to you as I said to thunder above, my message is for those who hunger, not for those who are full. I will keep you in prayer, though.

 

[Anubis]

Well, it wasn't but that's OK.

So you're saying you read some other magic book that says people lived for 100's of years?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Yes, speciated is indeed a word, and I'm not convinced that a Great Dane and a chihuahua could actually be considered the same species, depending upon the definition employed.

But they can still breed offspring that could breed right?

Provided the chihuahua has access to a ladder.

 

[Marvolo]

After having already talked about this with another poster or two above, if I said something wrong, then point it out. Nobody else did.

In any case, you received an answer to the organ question above, obviously you are trying to take this somewhere else at this point and so I'll say the same to you as I said to thunder above, my message is for those who hunger, not for those who are full. I will keep you in prayer, though.

Do you realize how smartass that sounds? Just the tone of it. This ranks high among my pet peeves. It's like Christians think they've won an argument just by tacking this onto the end of their rebuttals.

Idk maybe you meant nothing by it, but it sounds very smartass and insincere.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I ask for the same since you accused me of choosing to fit things where I want them to fit.

EDIT: I do see where you went with the "require evidence," but things are the way they are...

I accept inconvenient facts. Things I have believed that have been contradicted by evidence, and then I was forced to change what I accepted.