The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[shauner111]

Doesn't belong in a Batman movie

As you would say, well...you can make it belong in a Batman movie by making it work effectively! Want it to work? Just make it work!

It’ll never happen though. Not because it doesn’t belong. You can show how creepy Gotham is and how it’s a disgusting place to live in beyond the regular corruption. And you can also be smart about it and show what happens in real life without actually showing anything. Of course the suits in Hollywood might take offence to a filmmaker winking and outing their disgusting habits but that’s a talk for another time. But that would be the main reason why it’ll never be made or released. And they’ll use the excuse of “these movies have to be watched by kids too! They don’t wanna learn about that!” Nah you (the suit or critic or fan) just doesn’t wanna go there, even if they suggest it through dialogue. That level of abuse is hard to hear about but it does happen. “It has no place in a blockbuster!” umm but a rapist serial killer has a place? It’s all gross behaviour and we just choose which kind of filth is okay or not. As if it’s not all ****ed up.

Luckily we have other characters with different motives to choose from. Not to say that Reeves can’t add that into Riddler’s backstory in this. Or Selina’s. It’s possible. But Mad Hatter isn’t a good enough character to showcase such a taboo and f’d up idea. If you wanna take it there, it better be a heavy duty character where you can do it with meaning and lock up the bastard and tell a proper story that isn’t told just for the sake of being perverted. Not some Alice in Wonderland hat obsessed leprauchan idiot. What kind of name is Jervis Tetch anyway? What’s his power struggle gonna be in a sequel? Struggling to pick a top hat or Kangol?? **** outta here with Mad Hatter lmao.

 

[Captain Tired]

Remember the opening of Batman '89 where a prostitute basically propositions a ten year old kid?

Ah, simpler, more innocent times...

 

[Invader Joker]

I think that we're forgetting the fact that this incarnation of Batman is receiving at least 2 streaming spin-offs so a lot of villains that are not fit for a movie can easily be fit in there. This isn't like the Nolan films where if a villain can't fit in the main story there will be no space for it, the spin-offs can easily introduce some villains as side characters.

Hatter, for example, could just be a creep that Batman leaves beaten up in the Gotham PD show, and the police just spend an entire episode interrogating him about his encounter with Batman.

 

[JubJub86]

Yeah, but there's also no reason you only have to use the big-namers on the big screen. It'd be nice getting some "B-listers" we haven't seen cinematically yet.

Like, we're not talking Egghead here. But guys like Hatter or Ventriloquist can absolutely work in something like this. Probably less tricky than Poison Ivy or Killer Croc in a lot of ways. Stuff like Mad Monk's probably out of the realm of possibility (unless you're tempering it down, like there's no actual demonic **** going on but he's more just a crazy Anton LaVey type dude running a cult spreading violence), but there's a bunch of untapped material here.

Of course we'll get others in the show too, but it'd be a shame to limit the movies to you know, Riddler/Joker/Two-Face/Gangsters/Court etc.

 

[Invader Joker]

Yeah, but there's also no reason you only have to use the big-namers on the big screen. It'd be nice getting some "B-listers" we haven't seen cinematically yet.

Like, we're not talking Egghead here. But guys like Hatter or Ventriloquist can absolutely work in something like this. Probably less tricky than Poison Ivy or Killer Croc in a lot of ways. Stuff like Mad Monk's probably out of the realm of possibility (unless you're tempering it down, like there's no actual demonic **** going on but he's more just a crazy Anton LaVey type dude running a cult spreading violence), but there's a bunch of untapped material here.

Of course we'll get others in the show too, but it'd be a shame to limit the movies to you know, Riddler/Joker/Two-Face/Gangsters/Court etc.

Movies are only 2 hours and 30 minutes long at most. If there's no space for some villains in the main story there's no reason to put them there, the streaming shows do give a lot more terrain when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[JubJub86]

Yeah, 'cause the thinking here is use them all at once in a single movie.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

There is plenty of cool **** that you can do with Mad Hatter in a Batman movie. Why not do a Batman movie with him as the villain?

Do we want the same kind of Batman movies with the same villains used over and over again?

 

[Captain Tired]

Batman Forever should have been the Mad Hatter's movie, really.

 

[chintai80]

Batman Forever should have been the Mad Hatter's movie, really.

yup, the brainwave machine from riddler is totally a mad hatter thing.

gosh, i really dislike how riddler and 2face were portrayed in forever.

carrey doing a pale imitation of gorshin's riddler and it didn't work for me.

i'm hoping dano's riddler becomes a new benchmark for riddler. it looks like it will.

 

[shauner111]

Forever was definitely an amalgamation of Mad Hatter and Riddler. There’s plenty of cool stuff to do with Hatter? Name some.

 

[shauner111]

Movies are only 2 hours and 30 minutes long at most. If there's no space for some villains in the main story there's no reason to put them there, the streaming shows do give a lot more terrain when it comes to stuff like this.

Or Wesker can show up in Cobblepot’s show. Crane or Strange can be a main antagonist in a Arkham show. Alberto/Sofia Falcone showing in Catwoman’s show.

 

[Eddie Dean]

As you would say, well...you can make it belong in a Batman movie by making it work effectively! Want it to work? Just make it work!

It’ll never happen though. Not because it doesn’t belong. You can show how creepy Gotham is and how it’s a disgusting place to live in beyond the regular corruption. And you can also be smart about it and show what happens in real life without actually showing anything. Of course the suits in Hollywood might take offence to a filmmaker winking and outing their disgusting habits but that’s a talk for another time. But that would be the main reason why it’ll never be made or released. And they’ll use the excuse of “these movies have to be watched by kids too! They don’t wanna learn about that!” Nah you (the suit or critic or fan) just doesn’t wanna go there, even if they suggest it through dialogue. That level of abuse is hard to hear about but it does happen. “It has no place in a blockbuster!” umm but a rapist serial killer has a place? It’s all gross behaviour and we just choose which kind of filth is okay or not. As if it’s not all ****ed up.

Luckily we have other characters with different motives to choose from. Not to say that Reeves can’t add that into Riddler’s backstory in this. Or Selina’s. It’s possible. But Mad Hatter isn’t a good enough character to showcase such a taboo and f’d up idea. If you wanna take it there, it better be a heavy duty character where you can do it with meaning and lock up the bastard and tell a proper story that isn’t told just for the sake of being perverted. Not some Alice in Wonderland hat obsessed leprauchan idiot. What kind of name is Jervis Tetch anyway? What’s his power struggle gonna be in a sequel? Struggling to pick a top hat or Kangol?? **** outta here with Mad Hatter lmao.

 

[dhandler01]

View attachment 50357

Yeah that was my reaction as well.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I’m sure the reason that a studio wouldn’t want a child molestation sub plot in a PG-13 blockbuster franchise with LEGO tie ins is totally because they’re scared of being outted and not because that is just a lame, edge lord thing to do with a character like Hatter that fundamentally doesn’t make sense for this kind of movie.

I’m not that dogmatic about not having stuff like that in a Batman story if they were sensitive and artful about it, but I feel like making Hatter a straight up pedo is almost offensively lazy.

 

[Invader Joker]

I’m sure the reason that a studio wouldn’t want a child molestation sub plot in a PG-13 blockbuster franchise with LEGO tie ins is totally because they’re scared of being outted and not because that is just a lame, edge lord thing to do with a character like Hatter that fundamentally doesn’t make sense for this kind of movie.

I’m not that dogmatic about not having stuff like that in a Batman story if they were sensitive and artful about it, but I feel like making Hatter a straight up pedo is almost offensively lazy.

I feel it's the only thing that'd make that character remotely interesting tbh But even then I'd prefer to just keep it kinda on the subtext of it all like in the Arkham games, and in a streaming show rather than a movie. I doubt the Gotham PD show is gonna have LEGO tie-ins, so they have more freedom there in that sense.

 

[Captain Tired]

Isn't the twisted desire to subjugate people's minds interesting enough without the need for explicit kiddy fiddling?

I mean if some people are so hellbent on seeing the Hatter demonstrate that sort of proclivity, why not simply present his victims of brain control as feeling as though they've been raped on some level. It's not at all a stretch to imagine that people who've had their minds messed with would feel some deep, perhaps spiritual, sense of violation.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

If you’re looking for a way to make him a credible threat with some inspiration from real life villains, Mad Hatter could be the Ghislaine Maxwell to the Court of Owl’s Jeffrey Epstein. The Court recruited young circus performers, and perhaps Mad Hatter can be the drugged out creep that steals kids for the Court of Owls. This is similar to Mad Hatter’s schemes in Robin: Year One.

From wikipedia:

Robin proves to be a capable ally when he foils The Mad Hatter's plot to abduct and sell children into slavery. The story begins when the Mad Hatter is hired by Singh Manh Lee, the president of Rheelasia, to kidnap ten American girls for Lee's personal sex trafficking purposes. Batman and Robin are informed of the disappearances of eight girls by Captain Gordon and begin searching Gotham City for clues. After encountering difficulties in their search, Robin identifies one of the missing girls as Jennifer, a school acquaintance.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Shauner and Lazarus are officially the two craziest white boys on the hype

 

[shauner111]

If you can do it in True Detective, you can do it in Gotham City.

As far as I'm concerned this is supposed to be the grossest place you can possibly live in. If Riddler is a serial killer targeting ppl in power who take advantage of the poor, then I'd make Zsasz a rapist, Mad Hatter a pedo or someone involved in child trafficking, Joker a killer clown, Catwoman a prostitute/thief, Penguin a mobster, Court of Owls like the Illuminati who kidnaps children and brainwashes/trains them to be become assassins. Which segues back into Laz's Hatter working for the Court pitch. Which is actually something I also laid out to Trevino a couple months back in a DM. Had a scene in mind and everything. So more than one person thinking alike with Hatter/Court obviously means there's something there.

Everything that could frighten you should exist in Gotham. A collection of the worst of humanity. Don't want it in a PG movie? K change the rating. Stop being wussies. If I can watch this stuff in Taxi Driver where pedos, prostitutes, gangsters, crooked politicians, vigilantes all make up this cesspool that is New York. And yet ppl just want the watered down version of that movie it seems. Gotham should be even worse than what's depicted in NYC cuz it's supposed to be a nightmare city.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I wonder what the difference between Taxi Driver and a massive budget movie made by one of the biggest studios out there based on an intellectual property that’s existed for 80 years and has fast food tie ins and Lego sets and a cartoon where the main character is reimagined as a talking car is… hmm…

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Shauner and Lazarus are officially the two craziest white boys on the hype

I don’t think anyone wants to actually see child abuse in a Batman movie, I’m just saying the Mad Hatter has been portrayed that way in the comics. Mad Hatter can be used without that extra creepy angle. But if Reeves wants to tackle a real life Eyes Wide Shut/Illuminati type of story, then the Court could be behind that, with Hatter working for them. I don’t really want to see Mad Hatter as a primary villain, I’d like him as a side villain or a henchman.

The Court of Owls could be the scariest villains ever if they really lean into the Illuminati/Eyes Wide Shut influence. Obviously this would be a PG13 movie, and it couldn’t be too explicit. But there’s so much potential there. It really ties into the classicism themes that are being established in The Batman.

 

[shauner111]

Got a question for Mad Hatter fans. Older or younger actor? Someone who just started since Batman’s appeared or should he be around for a couple decades?

 

[Eddie Dean]

He’s the kinda character where I don’t think age really matters. Can see Barry Keoghan working just as well as Tom Waits.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Hatter was a incestuous pedophile in Gotham. Just throwing that out there. I wouldn’t want his character to go that far. Though I do want Hatter to be someone that targets kids (teens).

Maybe he’s hired to abduct the child of some elite figure, all the while harboring a dark obsession. This Hatter could even be one of Gotham’s biggest drug lord and holds someone’s kid as ransom. Or even do a version of Hatter kidnapping Barbra.

There are plenty of things that can be done with him that highlights his greatest and darkest elements without going too far. Even The Riddler is duct taping a guys entire head, so I would expect Hatter to be pretty dark too.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Counterpoint: He could just be a guy who really really likes Alice in Wonderland.

It ain’t that deep folks.