The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Invader Joker]

I hope Batman loses several fights along the way; learning to rely more on stealth. I don’t want this to be Affleck god tier type Batman. He should be losing fights if he’s up against several larger people in a large group. He should barely be making it through

Seeing how he literally took down all the thugs that were shooting at him during that hallway scene I don't think you'll get your wish.

 

[Invader Joker]

In what way, tho? What exactly looks and feels so radically different about this movie to you?

People seem to have a hard articulating this-- what feels different about it, aside from the cinematography

If the only difference is age, is it really worth retreading that particular arc, and THAT particular characterization of Batman again-- as this raging brute? I was expecting something closer to Year One:

View attachment 50445

A much creepier, spookier Batman. One who thrives in the theatricality of this legend that he's building. That's the vibe I got from this shot:
View attachment 50446

Which looks like it came straight out of a Halloween movie. I could've even seen Reeves incorporating shades of Brandon Lee in 'The Crow':
View attachment 50447
Into his Batman.

There are soooooo many ways you can present Batman to audiences. Sooo many ways you can (re)envision the character, and do something completely fresh

All of that can coexist with the angry Batman arc.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

This looks and feels nothing like any Batman movie we've ever gotten and I'm honestly taken aback that anyone could have that take.

Nah, we’re just too ignorant to see that Reeves is doing nothing different and its the same kind of Batman movie that we’ve already seen with Nolan and Snyder. Obviously we don’t have that keen eye to see that. A dang shame.

 

[ironwez20]

Actually, yes, unironically. A darker, more grounded version of Adam West would have been a fresh take... Whatever that may have looked like.

We're at the point in Batman's cinematic history, where some reinvention should be happening; some rediscovering of certain elements. The filmmakers should be finding new ways to present these elements-- a new way to present Batman's anger, a new way to present the Batsuit, a new way to present Gotham, and a new POV.

Because this is the second reboot of Batman in 6 years, and the third reboot overall. Time to start changing some things up.

I mean, look at Spider-Man: Homecoming for example, it was a complete reinvention, a completely fresh take; Marvel went out of their way to give us something new. Now was it everybody's cup of tea? No, but there's no denying that it was something different, which was much needed.

Man of Steel is another good example, and that film was similarly controversial to some fans. But there's no denying that it was a completely fresh take on Superman, which audiences had been BEGGING for.

It's a shame Reeves' take feels so.... Familiar, to what's been done with the character already. Specifically Snyder's take. It feels like Snyder 2.0

This feels nothing like Snyder whatsoever. I have no idea where your getting that from . Snyder Batman isn’t the only angry Batman

 

[shauner111]

I hope Batman loses several fights along the way; learning to rely more on stealth. I don’t want this to be Affleck god tier type Batman. He should be losing fights if he’s up against several larger people in a large group. He should barely be making it through

Disagree. He can whoop their ass just fine. Struggling yes. Ass kicked a bit sure. But losing several fights? No thanks. Just because you’re large doesn’t mean you’re tougher.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I feel like having him lose fights is more of an Earth One thing, literally as he's just starting out. But with where he is right now, having him be winning every fight, but without much finesse, fits best. As we get closer to prime Batman, he should get more refined and border on not taking a hit from common goons, though

 

[JubJub86]

I hope Batman loses several fights along the way; learning to rely more on stealth. I don’t want this to be Affleck god tier type Batman. He should be losing fights if he’s up against several larger people in a large group. He should barely be making it through

I'm actually really curious as to whether this version's done all the world travel and training. Obviously we're not going to see it (and shouldn't), but it'll be interesting to see how this pampered rich kid learned to use his fists.

Alfred training him is a take - it's not necessarily one I love in terms of explaining the full range of his skills though, seems a little limited. But at the same time, this guy certainly doesn't feel like Mr Martial Arts Master like Keaton/Bale. It'll be interesting to see which route Reeves takes with that, it would seem prudent he's had to have undergone *some* form of "toughening up" rather than just being a regular trust-fund-baby who's dumb enough to try this ****.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I'm actually really curious as to whether this version's done all the world travel and training. Obviously we're not going to see it (and shouldn't), but it'll be interesting to see how this pampered rich kid learned to use his fists.

Alfred training him is a take - it's not necessarily one I love in terms of explaining the full range of his skills though, seems a little limited. But at the same time, this guy certainly doesn't feel like Mr Martial Arts Master like Keaton/Bale. It'll be interesting to see which route Reeves takes with that, it would seem prudent he's had to have undergone *some* form of "toughening up" rather than just being a regular trust-fund-baby who's dumb enough to try this ****.

Honestly, I'd rather we just don't get any significant details into his training. Not knowing exactly how he was trained adds so much to the mystique of the character and what he's capable of.

 

[Rick190293]

In what way, tho? What exactly looks and feels so radically different about this movie to you?

People seem to have a hard articulating this-- what feels different about it, aside from the cinematography

If the only difference is age, is it really worth retreading that particular arc, and THAT particular characterization of Batman again-- as this raging brute? I was expecting something closer to Year One:

View attachment 50445

A much creepier, spookier Batman. One who thrives in the theatricality of this legend that he's building. That's the vibe I got from this shot:
View attachment 50446

Which looks like it came straight out of a Halloween movie. I could've even seen Reeves incorporating shades of Brandon Lee in 'The Crow':
View attachment 50447
Into his Batman.

There are soooooo many ways you can present Batman to audiences. Sooo many ways you can (re)envision the character, and do something completely fresh

I think we'll eventually get this creepier vibe from him, this shot is a clearly example. In the end, it all depends on the execution. If the character's arc is to grow into the calmer, methodic, Batman we know, it will be worth it without a doubt.

 

[DeadlyWest]

In what way, tho? What exactly looks and feels so radically different about this movie to you?

People seem to have a hard articulating this-- what feels different about it, aside from the cinematography

If the only difference is age, is it really worth retreading that particular arc, and THAT particular characterization of Batman again-- as this raging brute? I was expecting something closer to Year One:

There are soooooo many ways you can present Batman to audiences. Sooo many ways you can (re)envision the character, and do something completely fresh

The idea of an unhinged Batman isn't necessarily anything new, but it's how it's being done that's new.

This isn't a Batman who, like Nolan, or even really Year One (save for a few specific scenes in the beginning) comes into the job and immediately knows what he's doing or is even certain that he's making a difference. It's far more grounded than even Nolan took it, with showing how severe the physical ramifications and mental ramifications of being Batman would be. And what serious demons a man would need to be dealing with to even consider putting on a bat cowl and going out at night to fight crime. But it's then taking that and bringing that deeply broken and unhinged version of the character into the Symbol of Justice that his prime self will ultimately be. Snyder was more focused on turning him back into that Symbol of Justice. This is the story of how a severely broken and mentally ill man with enough demons to drive a man insane becomes that Symbol of Justice in the first place.

 

[JubJub86]

To Deadly you listen, yessss yessss.

Honestly, I'd rather we just don't get any significant details into his training. Not knowing exactly how he was trained adds so much to the mystique of the character and what he's capable of.

Yeah, agreed in a broad sense. Just wondering whether there might be like some throwaway line from Alfred about Bruce's "wilderness years" or backpacking around the globe to find himself or whatever. I think that'd be a nice way of doing it, you're not going full-on Begins with a specific origin and training with ninjas and all that jazz, just a kind of vague tip-of-the-hat to a way in which the guy's become so capable.

If Alfred's former military, it works - you can kind of do a Gotham show type of thing, Bruce got all obsessed with all this stuff in his teens and Alfred figured if he was going to do it anyway and couldn't be convinced otherwise, he might as well teach him some basics.

Certainly fits with the more "brawler" vibe we've seen from the fight scenes. I don't know, kind of do like the idea that Bruce has seen some of the world though, rather than having spent his entire life in Gotham but been shielded from all its problems through wealth and status. A billionaire's kid just putting on a costume and taking to the streets and taking his chances feels a little off to me, even with a more down-and-dirty take on it like here. Alfred teaching him how to throw a punch may not quite feel like enough.

 

[BatLobster]

This movie needs an homage to the Wicker people. That's all you need.

The idea of an unhinged Batman isn't necessarily anything new, but it's how it's being done that's new.

This isn't a Batman who, like Nolan, or even really Year One (save for a few specific scenes in the beginning) comes into the job and immediately knows what he's doing or is even certain that he's making a difference. It's far more grounded than even Nolan took it, with showing how severe the physical ramifications and mental ramifications of being Batman would be. And what serious demons a man would need to be dealing with to even consider putting on a bat cowl and going out at night to fight crime. But it's then taking that and bringing that deeply broken and unhinged version of the character into the Symbol of Justice that his prime self will ultimately be. Snyder was more focused on turning him back into that Symbol of Justice. This is the story of how a severely broken and mentally ill man with enough demons to drive a man insane becomes that Symbol of Justice in the first place.

In total fairness though, that basically does sound pretty close to the BvS arc, just with a younger Batman and minus all the Superman baggage (thankfully). It could essentially be the same root arc about a broken guy who is leaning far too much into vengeance and has to learn to balance it with compassion-- whether it's about going "back" to being prime Batman or about how he got there in the first place. Especially if he finds himself on the verge of crossing the line at the pivotal moment of his arc.

I think it sounds like a great take on a Batman film, the similarities are just result of the fact that the franchise got milked over the past decade rather than being allowed to sit on the shelf a bit. I'm not saying I think Reeves is "copying" Snyder, but I do feel like I could totally buy this movie as a Batfleck origin film and part of me does wonder if any of the Snyder stuff rubbed off on this movie just in the sense that when Reeves signed on, Affleck was still technically attached and things were very murky about what would happen with the DCEU.

 

[Kane52630]

This movie needs an homage to the Wicker people. That's all you need.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Went to RI Comic Con this weekend and ran into a Riddler cosplay from the new movie. He gave me a "to the batman" card, and I thought it was just a regular card inside, but there was a riddle, and everything! So cool lol.

 

[Marvel united]

This movie needs an homage to the Wicker people. That's all you need.



In total fairness though, that basically does sound pretty close to the BvS arc, just with a younger Batman and minus all the Superman baggage (thankfully). It could essentially be the same root arc about a broken guy who is leaning far too much into vengeance and has to learn to balance it with compassion-- whether it's about going "back" to being prime Batman or about how he got there in the first place. Especially if he finds himself on the verge of crossing the line at the pivotal moment of his arc.

I think it sounds like a great take on a Batman film, the similarities are just result of the fact that the franchise got milked over the past decade rather than being allowed to sit on the shelf a bit. I'm not saying I think Reeves is "copying" Snyder, but I do feel like I could totally buy this movie as a Batfleck origin film and part of me does wonder if any of the Snyder stuff rubbed off on this movie just in the sense that when Reeves signed on, Affleck was still technically attached and things were very murky about what would happen with the DCEU.

This. It's the same arc, no matter how the film re-contextualizes it, and by extension, the same characterization of Batman.

I just wish Reeves went in a different, fresher direction is all I'm saying

 

[JubJub86]

You should have stolen his bag and started dancing around like Carrey Riddler.

 

[shauner111]

I see Batfleck as a guy who traveled the world, trained, debuted the Batman in Gotham with total control and confidence in his mission and ability. And killed if he had to (since Snyder didn't think it was a big deal). As he met his rogues gallery, **** started hitting the fan and eventually Grayson dies as Robin. That plus Superman's arrival causes him to lose faith and he starts branding criminals like a cruel bastard. This is 20 years in. He even plots the murder of Superman when before it was probably more like "eh you die, you die, not my problem". But now he's planning murders. Supermans death makes him realize that he needs to....what? There's your brick wall. Make him realize what exactly? That he shouldn't be cruel to humans? But he never had a no kill rule to begin with. He was always cruel to humans. See what I'm getting at? When you say to your enemies "if you get killed because you're in my way, that's not a me problem. That's a YOU problem." Where's the humanity in that? I'd argue that he never had it and that's why most ppl didn't like that version of Bruce Wayne. The arc isn't really there. But it's presented as if it's some full arc. It ain't.

This is where it makes me laugh. Battinson wont have the same arc. I don't know if Battinson trained around the globe or not, but he sure as hell doesn't have all the answers right away. And he sure as hell doesn't kill ppl. He has never killed. But two years in, he almost does and stops himself. REINFORCING his strict no kill code and cementing it forever. A code he had in the first place. He cares about people, but not enough for his taste or for others. One Batman is just as bad as the villains he tracks down. The other (Rob) isn't, but he's on his way to becoming them if he's not careful. It's exactly the arc that Batfleck should have had. Never killed, almost kills, stops himself from doing it. It's not the same thing. It's almost as familiar as comparing Ben's version to Keaton (just because they both killed).

Batfleck may have stopped branding because of Superman (who showed him more humanity) "I'm acting like the alien god and Superman's the one acting like a human being". But getting back to who he once was, still means one thing "if you die, too ****ing bad". Lmao. Battinson on the other hand never killed and makes sure he won't come close to that extreme again because it'll make him no different than a serial killer. It's not just about being cruel, it's about preventing death. Getting to the "humanist" part IS the arc. You can't be a humanist if you've killed. You can't be a humanist if you kill.

One is a cloudy execution and I'm sure this will be clear. But that doesn't mean it's the same thing only with stronger execution. You're dealing with two very different people with different belief systems.

 

[BatLobster]

@shauner111
You're definitely right in the sense that Batfleck's arc is muddy because Snyder just can't seem to resist the idea of a Batman who kills so he keeps bringing it back there regardless of whatever emotional intent of the arc. And I have no idea what his attitude towards killing was in his prime, I can only sort of fill it in with my own image of what 'prime Batman' is. In any case, I am ready to move on from that version.

@Gothamsknight that's awesome man! How crazy would it be if they were sending Riddlers to cons now and the riddles were the start of a viral marketing campaign?

 

[Doctor Jones]

It's hard to say because the movie isn't out yet, but with the information, yes, there's similarities to Affleck and seemingly Pattinson in the broad sense they start out in a negative place to better versions of themselves. But the execution seems completely different. Pattinson is a young and pissed off Batman who doesn't have everything figured out yet while Affleck's Batman was an older, jaded Batman with a redemptive arc. It's just executed poorly. It's an invalid interpretation when Batman to the end is a psychopath committing manslaughter and murder. It's hard to tell what they were going for exactly. It's really messy and pretty salient in the end. Was he always crazy or has he gotten this way? The redemptive arc doesn't work because it's unclear, making the intentions kind of null and void. It's like the Tim Story FF films in my book. They never happened!

It's okay we're getting another unhinged Batman. Except we haven't gotten that interpretation correctly yet. It looks great. This looks like Reeves knows what he's doing, in making his rage the crux of his problems. The rage aspect is what gets me excited and is the fresh thing.

 

[Chris Reeves]

Back after my month-long banhammer for no reason. It's too bad I couldn't enjoy the experience with y'all the day the trailer dropped, but less time on SHH gave me more time to work on my book, so I guess there's that. Just got through reading about 50 pages of this thread, I hope I never have to do that again lol

Sorry if this has been brought up before elsewhere, but anyone else wonder why they went to such great lengths to obscure Dano's face when we already know what he looks like?

 

[DeadlyWest]

Back after my month-long banhammer for no reason.

Wasn't for no reason. We all know the reason why, I'd be very surprised if you don't too. Not worth it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Back after my month-long banhammer for no reason. It's too bad I couldn't enjoy the experience with y'all the day the trailer dropped, but less time on SHH gave me more time to work on my book, so I guess there's that. Just got through reading about 50 pages of this thread, I hope I never have to do that again lol

Sorry if this has been brought up before elsewhere, but anyone else wonder why they went to such great lengths to obscure Dano's face when we already know what he looks like?

The mods made it clear.

It's too bad that Chris won't be here to share FanDome with us because he decided to propagate dangerous vaccine misinformation...

There is no place for that dangerous propaganda here and anyone else who spreads it will be perma-banned without further warning.

 

[JubJub86]

Boobies & unicorns and such.

 

[DKDetective]

Back after my month-long banhammer for no reason. It's too bad I couldn't enjoy the experience with y'all the day the trailer dropped, but less time on SHH gave me more time to work on my book, so I guess there's that. Just got through reading about 50 pages of this thread, I hope I never have to do that again lol

Sorry if this has been brought up before elsewhere, but anyone else wonder why they went to such great lengths to obscure Dano's face when we already know what he looks like?

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Well thank god that return was short lived