The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Iceman]

In times like this you definitely keep the things that made you money. The Batman was too profitable (and Reeves is great at keeping to budgets) for anyone to not approve a sequel. It is probably the only lock for future films at this point along with Joker 2. If The Batman wasn't a huge success you would have a point, but Batman stuff is the most popular and makes the most money and the film was both critically and audience beloved. Even using basic box office equations (total budget = 2.5 production budget) the film made over $300 million in profit. And that was a reboot. A sequel will be a frontloaded cash cow that will make up for a lot of bad Kilar decisions.

tl;dr: Its coming unless Matt Reeves says otherwise.

I didn't know Reeves was great at keeping to budgets - they will absolutely love that part.

 

[dhandler01]

Haha, yeah they need to have a higher consistent quality given the quality of the best non CBM shows around these days.

If it's like that there are so many better ways of communicating their plan - and for DC they need to keep fans onside given all the turbulence since the TDK era. We've seen how well it's gone down and really these guys earning millions should have been aware of that possibility and how to better word their ideas to get people onside. Hopefully The Batman is one project they get fully behind given they like big event films, and give it the budget it needs and Reeves the freedom he needs to help achieve what they're looking for.

I don't think they have a lot of experience dealing with fandom...and I think we like to pretend we hold more sway than we do. We talk and talk and talk and post and post and post...and in the end we change our minds the second a cool trailer comes out. We are a minority. But yeah they should work on communicating their plan to us...my guess is Zazlov is not keen on being the voice of WBD but that is why he gets paid the big bucks.

 

[BatLobster]

It’s an unpredictable period where unprecedented things have been happening. Logic would tell you all is fine for Batman films at least, but you never know what's on the horizon with management changing and being aggressive in many directions and also likely under many simultaneous pressures, aggravated by the share price crash. There were no real fears about no sequel or about much in general until the new guys came and launched a nuke just before their earnings. They may not even get the time to see out their own plans.

You're not wrong. The writing has been on the wall for a long time that corporate control of these IPs is choking the life out of it (IMO), especially as the companies merge into bigger conglomerates.

I don't mean to be doom and gloom, I still definitely think The Batman sequel will happen and all signs point to that, but this is also the landscape that Reeves knowingly stepped into. He's aiming to be an outlier in an era where directors of these super valuable properties are simply not given the amount of creative control that he's looking to have. The good thing he has in his favor is history is on his side when it comes to the most successful Batman movies, and The Batman was one of the more successful recent DC movies. I hope he's able to maintain it, but I also don't ever think it was a given that he'd be able to over the long haul. So whatever happens, it's good that he made The Batman as a complete standalone film.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Can I be honest? I liked the general plan that Hamada and the previous regime were putting forward:

- A Batman Universe, featuring a young, fresh incarnation of the Caped Crusader that would be guided by a singular vision.
- The possibility for other unique/Elseworlds take on DC characters (Coates' Superman).
- A more diverse and streamlined DCEU with Batgirl and Supergirl leading the charge, including Wonder Woman and others.

All leading to a possible Crisis on Infinite Earths spectacular that could have brought back Cavill and Affleck, etc. Plus they were smartly playing the nostalgia card with Keaton as his Batman/the man in the chair. Maybe even a Kingdom Come Routh and more.

It could have offered variety. Different sized budgets, unique voices and a playground that didn't feel so homogenized. But now Zaslav just wants to cosplay at ''being Marvel'', where he'll always be 10 steps behind. I worry that anything he allows to continue will be heavily compromised anyway.

 

[Iceman]

I don't think they have a lot of experience dealing with fandom...and I think we like to pretend we hold more sway than we do. We talk and talk and talk and post and post and post...and in the end we change our minds the second a cool trailer comes out. We are a minority. But yeah they should work on communicating their plan to us...my guess is Zazlov is not keen on being the voice of WBD but that is why he gets paid the big bucks.

If they aren't that good in a certain area maybe take off 200k from their salary lol. Give the millions to the best who are all rounders and get up to speed in the areas they aren't. I don't know why entertainment seems to be an exception to other industries where the execs don't need to know their product well - maybe because their bosses also don't know it well and can't tell that they don't know lol. Fans are a minority of course, but friends of fans and friends of friends aren't. Any lore that a GA member knows either came from researching themselves (which means they aren't a total casual) or from word of mouth originated by a fan somewhere.

 

[BatLobster]

Can I be honest? I liked the general plan that Hamada and the previous regime were putting forward:

- A Batman Universe, featuring a young, fresh incarnation of the Caped Crusader that would be guided by a singular vision.
- The possibility for other unique/Elseworlds take on DC characters (Coates' Superman).
- A more diverse and streamlined DCEU with Batgirl and Supergirl leading the charge, including Wonder Woman and others.

All leading to a possible Crisis on Infinite Earths spectacular that could have brought back Cavill and Affleck, etc. Plus they were smartly playing the nostalgia card with Keaton as his Batman/the man in the chair. Maybe even a Kingdom Come Routh and more.

It could have offered variety. Different sized budgets, unique voices and a playground that didn't feel so homogenized. But now Zaslav just wants to cosplay at ''being Marvel'', where he'll always be 10 steps behind. I worry that anything he allows to continue will be heavily compromised anyway.

I don't disagree honestly. Again, this is why I talk about the issue we face with so much corporate control.

Zaslav has to "prove himself" to shareholders and try and come up with some plan that is going to differentiate the brand from what came before and take it to a new level of success. The common perception out there is that DC is behind Marvel when they should be on equal footing-- whether or not that's actually true or is a fair comparison. So he can dangle the carrot of "catching up".

The problem? Not a ton of downside for failure. He'll get a nice golden parachute on his way out the door. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Iceman]

You're not wrong. The writing has been on the wall for a long time that corporate control of these IPs is choking the life out of it (IMO), especially as the companies merge into bigger conglomerates.

I don't mean to be doom and gloom, I still definitely think The Batman sequel will happen and all signs point to that, but this is also the landscape that Reeves knowingly stepped into. He's aiming to be an outlier in an era where directors of these super valuable properties are simply not given the amount of creative control that he's looking to have. The good thing he has in his favor is history is on his side when it comes to the most successful Batman movies, and The Batman was one of the more successful recent DC movies. I hope he's able to maintain it, but I also don't ever think it was a given that he'd be able to over the long haul. So whatever happens, it's good that he made The Batman as a complete standalone film.

Yeah, I can't imagine the size of the backlash if it didn't, and it looks good for at least the first sequel (not sure about the shows) given the numbers first time. It's just a shame DC can't be housed in a more stable parent company with stable and long-tenured management that has full confidence in all the IPS within it (not just the biggest properties), and I also would have preferred for it not to be combined with something with very different priorities in Discovery (and taking ideas from people who ran that).

I think fans just want to ensure Reeves is protected after things were looking so good after The Batman's release, the related shows announced, and just hearing the dude talk so passionately about Batman. We got his vision first time and we want that again without suits interfering too much - the nerves have just got a bit jangly as the suits made their presence known so strongly recently.

 

[GothamCity]

The film made 770million at the box office, would be weird to not make a sequel.

 

[BatLobster]

To be clear, it would be STAGGERINGLY foolish, even for WB... to derail any of their successful franchises at this point. I'm as generally skeptical of 'the suits' as the next person, but for now I'm willing to at least give some baseline benefit of the doubt that they're not so clueless as to pull the plug on something with a strong foundation and a lot of upside. It would be defying basic business common sense.

 

[GothamCity]

If they cancel the sequel, no one would want to watch the next reboot, just boycot it.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I didn't know Reeves was great at keeping to budgets - they will absolutely love that part.

I mean The Batman pre COVID was said to have a budget of only 100 million. It was only after COVID that the budget shot up from that to 150, then from that to 185-200. As I said earlier in this discussion, The Batman was heavily disadvantaged by factors other than its overall quality which was to the detriment of its box office. Only a 45 day release window, without the third largest country superpower in the world, it might as well not have had the second largest country superpower in the world and it was a reboot which was the first solo Batman movie in a few months shy of ten years. Which also happens to be nearly three hours long and quite obviously has a more "niche" style that isn't trying to appeal to everyone MCU style. By all accounts, this movie should have been a box office disappointment. I wouldn't go as far as to say it should have been a failure, it's still Batman, but disappointment was very possible if not likely.

And yet it made 770 million dollars and had the second highest domestic gross for a superhero movie this year, as well as having a higher domestic gross than all but one DC movie released since The Dark Knight Trilogy (that one exception being Wonder Woman)

In 45 days. Completely without one global superpower and more or less without another. For a three hour long reboot.

Now imagine the sequel. Potentially cheaper (although Matt could also easily negotiate for the same budget but for actual production sans COVID's inflation of it), for a sequel to a reboot that most people loved, with China and a full release schedule. Billion dollars is more than reachable and there is not a single economist on planet Earth who would advise to cancel.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

We are definitely getting a sequel... but will the new powers that be force Reeves to compromise his vision? Will he be willing to play that game?

That DeLuca fellow sounds smart, so I'm hoping he has enough sense to leave Reeves alone.

 

[BatsAndNights]

We are definitely getting a sequel... but will the new powers that be force Reeves to compromise his vision? Will he be willing to play that game?

That DeLuca fellow sounds smart, so I'm hoping he has enough sense to leave Reeves alone.

They try, he walks. He walks, any possibility of a billion is practically gone because of the reaction it would generate in the aftermath of #ReleaseTheSnyderCut.

They might be stupid enough to try but they'd objectively lose money if they did

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Pattinson has an overall deal with WB too, so I imagine they would want to keep him sweet.

 

[shauner111]

Nothing will stop this train. *puts Heisenberg hat on head*

 

[Gothamsknight]

I feel like Reeves is gonna surprise us with how the 2nd film will be in comparison to the first. I just feel like it's gonna be a different beast all together.

 

[shauner111]

Agreed. Just like Dawn and War were quite different from each other. Just like Begins-Knight-Rises were all different from each other. T1-T2 etc.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I definitely think 2 will inadvertently appeal to more than The Batman did. Not necessarily intentionally, but 2 is definitely gonna see the introduction of stuff that people expect from a Batman movie that was missing. A lighter relationship between Bruce and Alfred, Bruce himself being more outgoing and having the two personas dynamic, etc. Combine that with (what I and I'm sure all of you are hoping) the fact that the storyline is gonna focus on developing Bruce's compassion?

Like, seriously, the potential of this sequel is ****ing cataclysmic.

 

[shauner111]

I definitely think 2 will inadvertently appeal to more than The Batman did. Not necessarily intentionally, but 2 is definitely gonna see the introduction of stuff that people expect from a Batman movie that was missing. A lighter relationship between Bruce and Alfred, Bruce himself being more outgoing and having the two personas dynamic, etc. Combine that with (what I and I'm sure all of you are hoping) the fact that the storyline is gonna focus on developing Bruce's compassion?

Like, seriously, the potential of this sequel is ****ing cataclysmic.

Potential to be another TDK type event.

 

[dhandler01]

You're not wrong. The writing has been on the wall for a long time that corporate control of these IPs is choking the life out of it (IMO), especially as the companies merge into bigger conglomerates.

I don't mean to be doom and gloom, I still definitely think The Batman sequel will happen and all signs point to that, but this is also the landscape that Reeves knowingly stepped into. He's aiming to be an outlier in an era where directors of these super valuable properties are simply not given the amount of creative control that he's looking to have. The good thing he has in his favor is history is on his side when it comes to the most successful Batman movies, and The Batman was one of the more successful recent DC movies. I hope he's able to maintain it, but I also don't ever think it was a given that he'd be able to over the long haul. So whatever happens, it's good that he made The Batman as a complete standalone film.

This is very true. Look at what Di$ney is doing with Marvel and Star Wars for example. Directors for these films are becoming like directors on TV shows. Sure they say "action" but the showrunner on TV shows is really in charge. The studios control way too many aspects of how these things work. It has happened before post 60/70s auteur movement the 1980s was very studio driven until indys became big again in the 90s/00s. It sucks...

 

[dhandler01]

Can I be honest? I liked the general plan that Hamada and the previous regime were putting forward:

- A Batman Universe, featuring a young, fresh incarnation of the Caped Crusader that would be guided by a singular vision.
- The possibility for other unique/Elseworlds take on DC characters (Coates' Superman).
- A more diverse and streamlined DCEU with Batgirl and Supergirl leading the charge, including Wonder Woman and others.

All leading to a possible Crisis on Infinite Earths spectacular that could have brought back Cavill and Affleck, etc. Plus they were smartly playing the nostalgia card with Keaton as his Batman/the man in the chair. Maybe even a Kingdom Come Routh and more.

It could have offered variety. Different sized budgets, unique voices and a playground that didn't feel so homogenized. But now Zaslav just wants to cosplay at ''being Marvel'', where he'll always be 10 steps behind. I worry that anything he allows to continue will be heavily compromised anyway.

I agree, the plans themselves were great...the problem was how Kilar was executing them. They were gambling (like many were) that the theater experience was dying and wanted to get ahead of it. They also saw what Di$ney+ was doing and thought they could do that without an extra tier charging to watch the films. If HBO Max was available everywhere that might have worked (likely not) but since it isnt that is a lot of money for very little return and unlike say making a bad film that bombs they were doing this on purpose! If they had made Batgirl with the idea of making it theater quality it would have survived cause they would have put it in the theaters to offset The Flash nonsense. They bought into the Netflix hype...and got burned.

Hamada had good ideas...they were not the problem.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

With all of these award nominations and I’m sure more is coming for the Oscars (make up and cinematography ) Zaslav will look real stupid if he doesn’t let Reeves do his Batverse

 

[HydraSith12]

I wouldnt be surprised if in the Batman 2 there is a cameo of a new Superman in the Reeves universe maybe the Batman has been thought of as a Batman only universe but i think the vision could evolve

 

[shauner111]

Will never happen.

 

[Jermobooka]

The status of Batman in film is so confusing right now.

The Batman 2 is happening, but apparently not greenlit, but still definitely happening. But also apparently won’t happen until many years down the line.

Keaton’s Batman was supposed to return in grand fashion and become a fixture of the future DCEU, but 2 of his 3 projects have been cancelled while the third is in limbo and in danger of also being cancelled.

Then there’s Batfleck who’s maybe-kinda-possibly-maybe back but only in a small way but maybe also in a big way? Who also might just be replaced for the newer DC cinematic universe the new WB regime want to establish?

I can’t tell if this a great time to be a Batman fan or a horrible time to be a Batman fan.