The Batman General News & Discussion Thread

[Fincher]

I prefer Batman to not feel grounded, that's where my concern lies, not with it being the exact same thing.

 

[Captain Tired]

I've always preferred my Batman stories to have a feel of being grounded, which i think Reeves will, but I don't think it's gonna be a copy of Nolans world.

I thought you always just liked what was most popular.

 

[shauner111]

I don’t want to come off like Nolan makes clear cut “plot over character” films because he obviously spends a lot of time on character development. But as each act evolves into the next, you can see the grandiose, often times fantastical plotting take over the ride. And everything is then in service of that plot. Reeves’ approach feels different. The mystery itself is the plot in The Batman (who was murdered + who is the murderer + what is their motive + maybe one scenario is connected to another).

This can be achieved without weird, often physical plot devices. Putting focus on your protagonist as he walks us through the city, we meet his enemies through his eyes. Is there enough room, at least in this movie, for a truly “out there” experience where Batman runs into a fantastical force? I don’t think so. Do any of us really believe he’s going to encounter a shapeshifter or vampire as he steps foot into Arkham Asylum for an interrogation? I’ll be VERY surprised.

 

[Invader Joker]

I wouldn't be so sure. It's not impossible, of course, but after revisiting some older interviews with Reeves, I've grown to have a clearer understanding of how he approaches 'fantastical elements vs realist elements' in his films.


Director Matt Reeves Returns to the Planet of the Apes Franchise, Leading Caesar and Company Into an All-Out War - Boxoffice

Reeves seems to prefer approaching one or two fantastical elements in his stories and using them as a metaphor for something else. And with it being apparent that Reeves wants to focus heavily on telling an emotional journey for Bruce Wayne/Batman in these films, I'd wager that he won't push very heavily into the more supernatural or fantastical sides of that world.

It's not impossible, of course, and there's certain ways in which it can work... but I just don't see him going all in on that side of the spectrum.

Funny enough is exactly because of that quote that I think he'd be willing to cross into the supernatural territory with JLD.
We don't even knowing Abrams is doing Superman so there's no point in talking about that.

But a lot of the characters in JLD operate the same way described there. Swamp Thing and Deadman are very much grounded in enmotional depth. Same with a lot of Constantine stories and Zatanna has a personal connection with Bruce Wayne

And as far as a detective grounded a realistic Batman encountering things he doesn't really understand the science of, I do think that's the most obvious metaphor I can think of. And again, it's one thst Reeves has dabbled into before; most recently with his Tales from the Loop series.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I thought you always just liked what was most popular.

I have no clue where that rumor came from.

 

[Invader Joker]

Funny enough is exactly because of that quote that I think he'd be willing to cross into the supernatural territory with JLD.
We don't even knowing Abrams is doing Superman so there's no point in talking about that.

But a lot of the characters in JLD operate the same way described there. Swamp Thing and Deadman are very much grounded in enmotional depth. Same with a lot of Constantine stories and Zatanna has a personal connection with Bruce Wayne

And as far as a detective grounded a realistic Batman encountering things he doesn't really understand the science of, I do think that's the most obvious metaphor I can think of. And again, it's one thst Reeves has dabbled into before; most recently with his Tales from the Loop series.

Here's also my deal with the paranormal elements found in a potential JLD - Batman crossover: The metaphors really, really write themselves.

And many people already believe that supernatural elements like that exist in real life (Granted, they're nutjobs, but because of that reason it's not that hard to imagine a realistic world that still has that sort of things) so you'd really have to tackle it from the perspective of "What if all these things like ghosts and monsters and magic were true?", which again, is a perspective that Matt himself has tackled before.

If a realistic grounded Batman deals with someone like Riddler, he can find it challenging, and it'll probably cost him sweat and blood, but to some extent he was already prepared to deal with a threat like that. He presumably knows the sciences in and out (He has to, he's the world's greatest detective) but if he suddenly has to deal with a supernatural case; a Batman that's realistic, that's never had to deal with this and never even imagined he'd, then that's putting Batman in a situation he wasn't prepared for at all. That's one metaphor you could use that'd push this Batman emotionally. If he suddenly has to team up with a bunch of people that he also has absolutely zero idea as to how they're able to do the things they do and how they live the way they live, that's also a profoundly obvious metaphor that'd push him emotionally. If suddenly, this expert, this genius, has to adapt and just learn and keep an open mind that's also a metaphor.
If he discovers that one of his girlfriends from childhood/his teenage years was someone that knew literal magic this whole time, that can also lend itself to a story full of emotional depth. And let's not even get started on the possibilities about what if he was literally tormented by his parents past or by the dead he failed to save.
Of course, I wouldn't want Batman to deal with this on the daily. I think Gotham City itself should stay very grounded in real crime and evil, and any human elements have to be grounded in reality, that'd make any crossover have more depth.

Nothing of what I mentioned seems out of place with Reeves track record; he used an alien invasion as a metaphor of what it's like to try to adapt in chaotic scenarios (hell, if you actually read more of his interviews on Cloverfield used it as a metaphor for what it's like to direct a film lmao), he used vampires to explore a coming of age story and what it's like to be lonely and isolated, he used talking Apes to explore not only the human condition but also what it's like to see a being grow and evolve into something so complex (he said mannierisms of his newborn son inspired a lot of that and as far as emotional metaphors go that's the most abstract thing ever, so even when it comes to the emotional metaphors he talked about they can be really abstract ), and he produced Tales from the Loop which was a metaphor of dealing with the things you don't understand in life, so all the things I just mentioned line very much with that past track record. And it's not only his past record, he's literally said a main objective of his 6th and Idaho production company was to specifically explore sci fi and other-worldly stories with those sorts of metaphors so he's quite obviously still interested in exploring all that.

And the fact that he loves JJ Abrams and has expressed wanting to work with him before. I just really don't think he'll pass on the opportunity.

 

[shauner111]

Did you just call me a nutjob? Lol

 

[Invader Joker]

Did you just call me a nutjob? Lol

You believe in the supernatural? Then not intentionally

But wait... do you literally believe that ghosts and stuff like that literally exist in real life, but they're somehow too unrealistic for a Batman live action universe?

 

[shauner111]

Yes literally. I’ve had my fair share of experiences with ghosts. So I do believe in the supernatural. But until there’s proof on a grand scale, and the majority of people/filmmakers treat it like it’s the norm...then it will continue to be treated on film as “fantasy”. So from the filmmaker’s perspective, Man Bat etc may not be realistic enough for this world.

 

[Green Goblin]

Everything looks more realistic than Nolan’s so far. Just more style.

I think that's more to do with this being an early years Batman story.

Year One and The Dark Knight Returns take place in the same universe. One is a very barebones kind of story with mobsters and smoke grenades and the other has a flying alien and an Iron Man suit.

 

[Juke Box Hero]

idk why anyone would want a super grounded/realistic & sans supernatural take again, or would want to go down that rabbit hole even further than before.

 

[Green Goblin]

The main reason Matt Reeves was my first preference for director of this reboot was because he has the ability to take fantastical concepts but present them in a more grounded way that makes them more "digestible" for the general audience.

He was able to sell a 2010's audience on the idea of talking apes overthrowing humans so I think he can give us a Batman universe where the supernatural exists and people will still take the film seriously.

 

[divan]

Year One was mostly Serpico with Batman in it. It was more Gordon's story than it was Bruce's (though of course he's primordial to the story). So I think a prequel during Batman's early days (or just before his introduction), with perhaps a Pattison appaerance at the season finale, could work.

I'm not really interested in something that goes too many years back, though. It'd be basically a crime drama playing dress-up.

 

[antsman41]

Reeves can easily pull of grounded realism with heightened sci-fi elements... aka pretty much every Batman comic post-1992.

 

[shauner111]

idk why anyone would want a super grounded/realistic & sans supernatural take again, or would want to go down that rabbit hole even further than before.

Speaking for myself, I can answer that question. I get nervous when films deal with monsters because of the level of CG required. Since I’m not much of a fan of heavy CG use. That’s one reason. Another is, I feel like Nolan didn’t go far enough. I’ve always been intrigued with a Fincher-esque detective Batman. And tbh i didn’t grow up a fan of those monster villains or when Batman was working with Superman. Not my cup of tea. I just don’t want an American City as Gotham anymore.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

The main reason Matt Reeves was my first preference for director of this reboot was because he has the ability to take fantastical concepts but present them in a more grounded way that makes them more "digestible" for the general audience.

He was able to sell a 2010's audience on the idea of talking apes overthrowing humans so I think he can give us a Batman universe where the supernatural exists and people will still take the film seriously.

I agree! I can't wait for the first trailer to come out.

Reeves is good at character development, he made people care about CGI apes. Gets me hype that all of the actors on this movie are saying that The Batman script is special.

 

[cryptic name]

I think there's room for supernatural elements in a tone like what Reeves is going for. Especially when focusing on character arcs for Batman as a protagonist. Taking this ultimate pragmatist and critical thinker and putting him in a position where he has to consider the supernatural would be a cool place to take his character.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I honestly hope the first scene is Batman chasing Penguin on a giant typewriter while Penguin shoots him with an umbrella gun.

 

[WatchProtect]

I dotn need Superman or Anything like that, I think there's a way to make supernatural characters work, it just takes creativness. The norm in Reeves world could be that experiments have been going on or that people are simply just born different, there's literally no way of knowing at this point

 

[Boom]

Truth be told, a lot of my favorite Batman villains aren't the overtly supernatural ones. So I guess the "realism" angle sort of works out for my sensibilities.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

I honestly hope the first scene is Batman chasing Penguin on a giant typewriter while Penguin shoots him with an umbrella gun.

I am curious to see what kind of look they're going to give Penguin in this. Colin hinted that he will wear prosthetics.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

idk why anyone would want a super grounded/realistic & sans supernatural take again, or would want to go down that rabbit hole even further than before.

Nolan’s movies are super, super big. They’re melodramatic, crazy Bond homages with giant microwave weapons and nukes. They have their own internal sense of realism and no overt supernatural elements, but the only particularly down to earth one is The Dark Knight.

A fairly straight but exaggeratedly weird crime drama with costumes is pretty ideal for my sensibility. I would even be cool with something like Aronofsky’s year one (minus the incredibly dumb parts) that’s totally devoid of traditional comic book tropes.

 

[thebatfan5194]

I don’t need Reeves to make a live action cartoon, I just hope the desire for realism doesn’t require omitting things like Robin, the rest of the Batfamily, etc as those can easily be said are too fantastical to work in the real world.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I also think on an aesthetic level a more realist look makes the strange and colourful stand out more. Batman feels much more striking to me in a realistic, with some gothic elements ideally, urban environment rather than super stylized like Burton’s.

 

[Invader Joker]

Yes literally. I’ve had my fair share of experiences with ghosts. So I do believe in the supernatural. But until there’s proof on a grand scale, and the majority of people/filmmakers treat it like it’s the norm...then it will continue to be treated on film as “fantasy”. So from the filmmaker’s perspective, Man Bat etc may not be realistic enough for this world.

I don't want Man-Bat. I'd reserve the supernatural elements exclusively for crossovers. Gotham itself and Batman's rogues would be better to keep grounded, that way the crossovers would put Batman in situations he isn't regularly in and the clash and conflict that'd arrive from those would be more intriguing.