The BATSUIT Thread

[BatLobster]

Yeah, always hated the TDK bat-bike thingamajig.

The tumbler's exaggerated with all the jumping crap, and just how durable/invincible it seems, but at least it makes some basic "movie" sense. That wheel-rolling stuff with the bike though is pretty lame.

This new Batmobile seems to be pretty invincible based on what we're seeing in the new trailer (possibly with jumping abilities?), and it's not like it's even meant to be a military vehicle or anything. And the Tumbler actually does get destroyed.

I think this whole convo is just proving the point that we all sometimes pick and choose what we're willing to suspend disbelief for when it comes to this stuff.

 

[JubJub86]

Ehh, it seems pretty banged up coming outta the fireball to me. Gonna need more context of course. I can buy him driving through flames for a few seconds, if that's all it amounts to. Tumbler took worse, not to mention killing that innocent dude in the semi-truck and Bruce just going "meh".

 

[chintai80]

batman was channeling dominic toretto when the batmobile jumped out of that fireball.

FAMILY.

 

[Brother Jack]

For me, the issue is the rest of the set piece is shot for real and has such weight and palpable reality to its physics to it, that I find that moment very jarring.

But yeah, a lot of these things are to each their own.

The difference is that's just a button on an action set-piece that has no real consequence to the story, whereas this has the potential to do harm to the narrative stakes. If Batman can tank machine gun fire at close range like that, it makes him less human by making him too invulnerable and it lessens the dramatic weight of the action scenes.

 

[DKDetective]

The difference is that's just a button on an action set-piece that has no real consequence to the story, whereas this has the potential to do harm to the narrative stakes. If Batman can tank machine gun fire at close range like that, it makes him less human by making him too invulnerable and it lessens the dramatic weight of the action scenes.

You obviously did not care to read my post in its totality as you snipped the first three lines rather than actually engaging with the remaining 5 paragraphs have have to do with issues of character, narrative stakes, and dramatic weight.

 

[Brother Jack]

You obviously did not read the rest of the post as it is specifically about the narrative stakes and dramatic weight.

I did. And this paragraph I agree with 100%

If the movie shows this as a moment of extreme recklessness and that Bruce takes serious damage from it (ie. Basically bruised all over, possible broken bones, internal bleeding, etc.), I can accept the fantasy of it for storytelling purposes.

It *only* works if there are real consequences to it, if he does actually suffer significant damage from it. But the trailer does not and cannot give that kind of context, so we are playing guess work. As it stands, it appears as though Bruce is able to shrug off more gunfire than we've ever seen him take before without consequence, and if that's how it's presented in the film I think it will be a problem.

 

[DKDetective]

I did. And this paragraph I agree with 100%



It *only* works if there are real consequences to it, if he does actually suffer significant damage from it. But the trailer does not and cannot give that kind of context, so we are playing guess work. As it stands, it appears as though Bruce is able to shrug off more gunfire than we've ever seen him take before without consequence, and if that's how it's presented in the film I think it will be a problem.

I disagree with this as this shot of Bats' heavily damaged armour very clearly shows the story is treating that reckless march down the hallway as causing significant damage and consequences:

(not only is the chest piece Swiss cheese, but the emblem is also missing).

Also, as Bats clearly seems to be leading a bunch of abduction victims to safety in that shot (based on the wide angle shot that follows), I think it is pretty clear that Bruce basically is charging kamikaze into action in that scene because he is racing against time to save innocent lives. I would bet more than a dollar that it is one of the most climactic and high stakes moments of the film.

 

[JubJub86]

Don't know how "serious" I'd cause some scuffmarks & dents after being blasted with two Uzis or whatever for 5 seconds. But yeah, it's hardly a big concern for me.

 

[DKDetective]

Don't know how "serious" I'd cause some scuffmarks & dents after being blasted with two Uzis or whatever for 5 seconds. But yeah, it's hardly a big concern for me.

If you expand the screenshot to full resolution and zoom in, they go beyond dents. There is at least one that looks like it made it clean through the chest plate.

 

[metaphysician]

You calling those thugs experienced marksman? You telling me those dudes, not one can just hold the trigger and aim for the face...

Telling me Bruce doesn't worry about his jaw line not being an open invitation?

If anything he should be walking through that alley like dracula, cape in fist, forearm over face... cape down and marching forward...
That's ofcouse, how every experienced trained military personnel would move...........

Um, if they are not experienced marksmen, its even *less* likely they are going to hit a small target like the jaw. Or, really, anything else, the accuracy of untrained gunmen is generally pretty terrible. Especially in the dark, when scared ****less. *cough*

 

[Brother Jack]

Also, as Bats clearly seems to be leading a bunch of abduction victims to safety in that shot (based on the wide angle shot that follows), I think it is pretty clear that Bruce basically is charging kamikaze into action in that scene because he is racing against time to save innocent lives. I would bet more than a dollar that it is one of the most climactic and high stakes moments of the film.

That's probably a safe bet. But what I think is necessary to drive the point home is a morning after scene where he's back at the Manor practically bed-ridden with severe bruising, cracked ribs, lacerations, etc. We've already seen the battle scars on his back, this would be a step beyond to show visually how his recklessness is wreaking more serious damage to his body. Just trying to emphasize that despite his bulletproof suit and near-superhuman determination, underneath he's still a vulnerable flesh and blood man.

 

[Enriquespy]

Count me in as a guy who also loved the Bat-pod flipy shenanigans.

As for the armor moment, It's ok, its special bat armor. It can do those things.

 

[DKDetective]

That's probably a safe bet. But what I think is necessary to drive the point home is a morning after scene where he's back at the Manor practically bed-ridden with severe bruising, cracked ribs, lacerations, etc. We've already seen the battle scars on his back, this would be a step beyond to show visually how his recklessness is wreaking more serious damage to his body. Just trying to emphasize that despite his bulletproof suit and near-superhuman determination, underneath he's still a vulnerable flesh and blood man.

I strongly suspect we will get something like the scene between a heavily beat up Indy and Marion after the truck chase:

Except less played for laughs and more Alfred seriously dressing down Bruce for having death wish or something.

 

[BatsAndNights]

View attachment 50006
(not only is the chest piece Swiss cheese, but the emblem is also missing).

The fact it's only partially missing certainly lends credence to the theory that it's potentially a weapon of some kind, too

 

[Razor Crest]

I disagree with this as this shot of Bats' heavily damaged armour very clearly shows the story is treating that reckless march down the hallway as causing significant damage and consequences:
View attachment 50006
(not only is the chest piece Swiss cheese, but the emblem is also missing).

Also, as Bats clearly seems to be leading a bunch of abduction victims to safety in that shot (based on the wide angle shot that follows), I think it is pretty clear that Bruce basically is charging kamikaze into action in that scene because he is racing against time to save innocent lives. I would bet more than a dollar that it is one of the most climactic and high stakes moments of the film.

With the emblem empty, I’m still convinced that’s where he keeps throwable batarangs. Based on the promos too, the size and shape of them line up with the chest emblem.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Now this hallway scene of Batman doesn't bug me in the same way... At least not yet. First, despite JubJub being totally right about kinetic trauma of those shots when wearing conventional bodyarmour, we don't know everything about Bruce's armour in this movie. There is real advanced fabric bodyarmour in development that uses nanofibers to dissipate the kinetic impact of a shot. Bruce could have an undersuit of that on this movie.

Second, that can be combined with the idea that this Bruce is unhinged and hyped up on adrenaline, etc. It reminds me of the line in The Terminator when the cops explain away Arnie's imperviousness to gunfire as the combo of body armour and being hopped up on PCP.

That nanofiber armor sounds pretty interesting. I guess I'd be willing to meet them half-way if that's what they're doing. As long as it's in moderation. This shouldn't be used as an excuse not to write scenes where he has to outwit his opponents.

 

[BatsAndNights]

With the emblem empty, I’m still convinced that’s where he keeps throwable batarangs. Based on the promos too, the size and shape of them line up with the chest emblem.

View attachment 50016

View attachment 50017

Nah, they look a hair too small to me. The symbol's wider. I reckon they could be batarangs, just backup ones for emergencies

 

[metaphysician]

You know, on the matter of bulletproof costumes, I did some looking online to confirm my suspicions. . . honestly, I think the degree that "even with armor being shot should be crippling!" is exaggerated. A bullet only carries so much kinetic energy. Think about the amount of recoil a gun generates; that is the maximum amount of force said bullet can deliver to the target. In the case of a rifle round this might be enough force to crack ribs and cause trauma ( see also: what happens if you fire a rifle without properly bracing it ), but for a small calibre pistol? Bruising, mostly. Which doesn't mean you want to go out of your way to get shot, but there is a reason people can and have done actual tests of "shoot me with a gun on my armor" without being suicidally insane.

In the real world, there are two main limiting factors to body armor. The first is scope of protection- if armor takes a hit from a round that exceeds its protection? You go very rapidly from "survivable blunt trauma" to "you have a hole in your body", with very little margin in between. A vest rated against large caliber pistol rounds does virtually nothing against a rifle round. The second is durability- basically, body armor does really well against the first hit, but its protection plummets after that. Kevlar fibers get distorted, ceramics get cracked, and its much more likely that the next hit in the area will go through, which is bad.

Edit: Which, natch, doesn't mean walking through a bunch of SMG fire is a great idea. Just that it doesn't stretch plausibility too much if the result is "Batman's chest looks like he's been in a boxing match and his chest plate needs a refurb", as opposed to "Batman needs a paramedic for internal bleeding and broken ribs".

 

[Invader Joker]

With how much money goes into the military I wouldn't be surprised if a super-expensive armor like Batman's already existed in real life even if it's only in prototype form, honestly.

 

[chintai80]

With how much money goes into the military I wouldn't be surprised if a super-expensive armor like Batman's already existed in real life even if it's only in prototype form, honestly.

i wouldn't be surprised if they're already experimenting with armor even more advanced than what battinson got. lol

 

[FunkMiller]

You know, on the matter of bulletproof costumes, I did some looking online to confirm my suspicions. . . honestly, I think the degree that "even with armor being shot should be crippling!" is exaggerated. A bullet only carries so much kinetic energy. Think about the amount of recoil a gun generates; that is the maximum amount of force said bullet can deliver to the target. In the case of a rifle round this might be enough force to crack ribs and cause trauma ( see also: what happens if you fire a rifle without properly bracing it ), but for a small calibre pistol? Bruising, mostly. Which doesn't mean you want to go out of your way to get shot, but there is a reason people can and have done actual tests of "shoot me with a gun on my armor" without being suicidally insane.

In the real world, there are two main limiting factors to body armor. The first is scope of protection- if armor takes a hit from a round that exceeds its protection? You go very rapidly from "survivable blunt trauma" to "you have a hole in your body", with very little margin in between. A vest rated against large caliber pistol rounds does virtually nothing against a rifle round. The second is durability- basically, body armor does really well against the first hit, but its protection plummets after that. Kevlar fibers get distorted, ceramics get cracked, and its much more likely that the next hit in the area will go through, which is bad.

Edit: Which, natch, doesn't mean walking through a bunch of SMG fire is a great idea. Just that it doesn't stretch plausibility too much if the result is "Batman's chest looks like he's been in a boxing match and his chest plate needs a refurb", as opposed to "Batman needs a paramedic for internal bleeding and broken ribs".

Look up ‘non Newtonian fluid armour’ if nobody else has mentioned it yet. Being able to withstand automatic rifle fire like that might not be that unbelievable.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

There's also the fact that's he's not just wearing Kevlar but what looks to be heavy reinforced armor. It doesn't mean he's completely bullet proof but I think it works.

 

[godisawesome]

I’m thinking we should also consider Bruce being amped up and moving on adrenaline and raw rage in that sequence as well; he stagger more at the first gun shot shown, and he definitely seems to be jerking around when tanking the automatic fire in a more berserk fashion.

I’d laugh hard if the next scene shows him grumbling and growling about how sore he is after that… particularly if Selina is the one hearing about it and teasing him for it.

 

[cryptic name]

I think the more important thing to take away from these shots is that Bruce at this point is reckless and even has a death wish he "doesn't care what happens to him". This isn't meant to be a sustainable way of fighting or to show off how badass his armor is. He's getting lucky and he's going to have to change as his understanding of his mission changes. Besides, it being experimental material that most people wouldn't have access to isn't hard to believe.

 

[DKDetective]

With how much money goes into the military I wouldn't be surprised if a super-expensive armor like Batman's already existed in real life even if it's only in prototype form, honestly.

i wouldn't be surprised if they're already experimenting with armor even more advanced than what battinson got. lol

Look up ‘non Newtonian fluid armour’ if nobody else has mentioned it yet. Being able to withstand automatic rifle fire like that might not be that unbelievable.

I’m thinking we should also consider Bruce being amped up and moving on adrenaline and raw rage in that sequence as well; he stagger more at the first gun shot shown, and he definitely seems to be jerking around when tanking the automatic fire in a more berserk fashion.

I’d laugh hard if the next scene shows him grumbling and growling about how sore he is after that… particularly if Selina is the one hearing about it and teasing him for it.

Guys, while I am always glad to have people agree with me, I'm pretty sure I did cover all of these points on the last page (although I slightly.confused the non Newtonian fluid armour with nanofibers armour, they are on the same episode of Future weapons back in the day):

Yeah, I totally get the criticism of the scene and it is perfectly legitimate. When filmmakers lean into a veneer of realism and set limitations or rules for their world, more fantastical moments that seem to break the rules established by the filmmakers will seem dissonant and take people out of the illusion. I mean I cannot watch the big truck chase scene in TDK without cringing when the blatantly CGI Bat-Pod drives up the wall and flips around at the end seemingly against all rules of physics. It bugs me in particular because it is a cheap thrill and looks really bad and fake.

Now this hallway scene of Batman doesn't bug me in the same way... At least not yet. First, despite JubJub being totally right about kinetic trauma of those shots when wearing conventional bodyarmour, we don't know everything about Bruce's armour in this movie. There is real advanced fabric bodyarmour in development that uses nanofibers to dissipate the kinetic impact of a shot. Bruce could have an undersuit of that on this movie.

Second, that can be combined with the idea that this Bruce is unhinged and hyped up on adrenaline, etc. It reminds me of the line in The Terminator when the cops explain away Arnie's imperviousness to gunfire as the combo of body armour and being hopped up on PCP.

Third, the fantasy of it will seem less objectionable if the movie shows the consequences of it, which I have every expectation it will. We have shots of Bats in the trailer where his chest armour is shot and dented to hell. We also have Alfred expressing to Bruce that if he keeps going like this, he will die, to which Bruce basically makes it sound like he has a death wish and doesn't care.

If the movie shows this as a moment of extreme recklessness and that Bruce takes serious damage from it (ie. Basically bruised all over, possible broken bones, internal bleeding, etc.), I can accept the fantasy of it for storytelling purposes.

Also, Reeves has been hanging out with JJ Abrams for the last 20 years, although he is a much smarter and detail oriented filmmaker, JJ's devil may care attitude when it comes to physics and science has probably rubbed off on the guy through no fault of his own.