The Last Jedi The Biggest Problem with The Last Jedi is The Force Awakens.

[FunkMiller]

The higher-ups have to be responsible for that stupid sojourn Rose and Finn took to the one planet with the giraffe-steeds through what must surely be a Star Trek-styled trans-temporal warp.

I can't imagine Johnson came up with that nonsense. If he did...that's appalling.

That was the main flaw with the movie, certainly. It actually felt like something from the prequels.

 

[random_havoc]

The BvS comparison holds zero water. It’s entirely the other way from what’s happening with TLJ.

TLJ is popular with the audience, reviewed extremely well by critics, is expected to have great box office legs, and is part of the most successful franchise ever. It is also hated by a small but vocal minority.

BvS was deeply unpopular with the audience, reviewed extremely poorly by critics, had terrible box office legs, and is part of a failing franchise. It is also loved by a small but vocal minority.

Yeah! A better comparison for TLJ is The Phantom Menace! It was well reviewed at the time, fans came out of the theatre saying they liked it, and it made a ton of money.
TLJ is part of Star Wars which means that, just like all the terrible prequel films, it doesn't matter whether it's good or not it will make a ton of money. Heck, a ton of people still won't admit the prequels were bad (even Menace) because "but it's Star Wars!".

 

[Tony Stark]

The more I hear from Rian Johnson, the more pissed off I get. I get the feeling like he just went off and did his own thing with little direction or consultation from anyone and his response to what will happen in the next movie is "well JJ will have to figure that one out".

I may not like the sequels very much, but at least Lucas had a singular vision for what he wanted to do, even if he changed a lot of the existing canon when doing so.

 

[Mandon Knight]

The higher-ups have to be responsible for that stupid sojourn Rose and Finn took to the one planet with the giraffe-steeds through what must surely be a Star Trek-styled trans-temporal warp.

I can't imagine Johnson came up with that nonsense. If he did...that's appalling.

I think it was a 'they need to bond to fake that they care about each other after only five minutes together on screen'' problem many films have. They then took the Phantom Menace for inspiration. Bad call !

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah! A better comparison for TLJ is The Phantom Menace! It was well reviewed at the time, fans came out of the theatre saying they liked it, and it made a ton of money.
TLJ is part of Star Wars which means that, just like all the terrible prequel films, it doesn't matter whether it's good or not it will make a ton of money. Heck, a ton of people still won't admit the prequels were bad (even Menace) because "but it's Star Wars!".

Oh god no. Oh no no no no. TLJ has flaws, but it doesn’t descend into the depths of The Phantom Menace. I don’t think people will be saying the same about it.

 

[Patchwork Man]

That was the main flaw with the movie, certainly. It actually felt like something from the prequels.

As did the Porgs and the Lactating Lobster Cows and Snoke's OTT lines.

 

[Consona]

Oh god no. Oh no no no no. TLJ has flaws, but it doesn’t descend into the depths of The Phantom Menace. I don’t think people will be saying the same about it.

TLJ is worse than Menace.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Oh god no. Oh no no no no. TLJ has flaws, but it doesn’t descend into the depths of The Phantom Menace. I don’t think people will be saying the same about it.

Its not far off it, bar an anti-Semitic ant eater and some appalling anti-Japanese fish.

 

[BatLobster]

The more I hear from Rian Johnson, the more pissed off I get. I get the feeling like he just went off and did his own thing with little direction or consultation from anyone and his response to what will happen in the next movie is "well JJ will have to figure that one out".

It's quite fascinating to me how people are making these assumptions and making it so personal against Rian.

From everything I've read...

He was in talks with JJ and was writing while JJ was shooting TFA (he was given the TFA script and was watching dailies as he wrote).

He consulted with JJ and had talks about the significance of certain things in TFA (IE- Rey's parents were decided when they shot TFA)

JJ was an executive producer on VIII.

JJ himself gave him some notes, but Rian said JJ was excited by the choices he was making.

Greg Grunberg said that JJ was so impressed with the script for VIII that he was jealous he wasn't directing it, which was a rare thing for him to say.

JJ himself is accepted the offer to return, so clearly he doesn't think the story is broken beyond repair and he feels he'll be able to wrap it up in a satisfying way. I'm assuming the best of JJ here that he's doing it to tell a story he wants to tell and not just a paycheck, which I think is fair...who needs that kinda pressure if your heart isn't in it?

There are quotes to back up all of the above, but I don't have time to Google it all now. I've been paying close attention to this side of the story though. I'm just kind of stunned by how many people are jumping right to "Rian Johnson hated TFA and is a total a-hole!". I'm seeing it all over the place. It's honestly hilarious to me.

 

[Patchwork Man]

TLJ is worse than Menace.

Well, TLJ has Mark Hamill, though. So it's definitely better. How much better is open to debate.

 

[Brother Jack]

TLJ is worse than Menace.

Dude, I have issues with this movie, but if you honestly think it's worse than any of the prequels you're outta your mind. On an aesthetic level alone it's leagues above the PT.

 

[JOE]

This is the problem with switching the director every movie. I still really enjoyed TLJ, but it's not exactly the best transition. JJ finishing out the trilogy will be messy. He either plays off TFA, or off what RJ did with TLJ.

 

[BatLobster]

This is the problem with switching the director every movie. I still really enjoyed TLJ, but it's not exactly the best transition. JJ finishing out the trilogy will be messy. He either plays off TFA, or off what RJ did with TLJ.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

To me, a good trilogy tends to follow the thesis, antithesis, synthesis type of model. You do the thing, you flip the thing on its head, and then ideally you bridge that gap. That's probably why third films are always the trickiest, in addition to other things.

But hey, that's where creativity and inspiration hopefully come in.

 

[random_havoc]

Well, TLJ has Mark Hamill, though. So it's definitely better. How much better is open to debate.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that they crapped all over Luke. Heck, if you really respect Hamill, even he said to Rian "I fundamentally disagree with everything you did with Luke and I'm shocked that you see him that way" (look it up on youtube).
In case you didn't get it, that's Hamill saying politely that he thought they way they went with his character was ****

 

[Consona]

Dude, I have issues with this movie, but if you honestly think it's worse than any of the prequels you're outta your mind. On an aesthetic level alone it's leagues above the PT.

Look, the script was a total mess; plot holes, large and small scale continuity and coherency problems everywhere, atrocious character writing, awful humor, purposeless and anticlimactic scenes and subplots, and a top of that, totally butchered "Luke". TPM at least had some hints of a story. I don't care about aesthetic level (yea it looked very nice) when I want to turn the movie off literally ever other minute. Seriously I've never ever experienced a movie where I wanted to leave the cinema like the whole time I was watching it. It's mind-boggling to me how this was even possible to happen.

 

[Patchwork Man]

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that they crapped all over Luke. Heck, if you really respect Hamill, even he said to Rian "I fundamentally disagree with everything you did with Luke and I'm shocked that you see him that way" (look it up on youtube).
In case you didn't get it, that's Hamill saying politely that he thought they way they went with his character was ****

I'm well aware of Mark re-marks (har, har), and I've no doubt he's on the money.

But some Mark Hamill is better than no Mark Hamill. That's the gist of it.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I don't know if TPM is better than TLJ, but RotS is certainly much better.

 

[random_havoc]

That's sad that TLJ is bad enough that it has to be compared to any of the prequels. They shoud've/could've done so much better

 

[Consona]

I don't know if TPM is better than TLJ, but RotS is certainly much better.

I'd love to agree with you but your sig prevents that.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Revenge of the Sith is awful. Dreadful. The entirety of the PT is.

 

[Romannen]

And even if TLJ was mainly aimed at a general audience, the script was horrible nonetheless.

Keep in mind that many do genuinely consider TLJ a masterpiece. And not just critics.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Keep in mind that many do genuinely consider TLJ a masterpiece. And not just critics.

Such a notion is laughable. The '77 film > TLJ.

 

[Consona]

Keep in mind that many do genuinely consider TLJ a masterpiece. And not just critics.

Sure, why not. Just to me, it's a gut-wrenching pile of porg crap.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

TLJ is worse than Menace.

Terribly funny.

 

[DACrowe]

This is what happens when you plan a trilogy of movies without actually planning them out. JJ literally 'pitched' SW9 to Lucasfilm today. No plan, no direction, the DCEU method of making Star Wars.

To be fair, other than the Darth Vader twist, I'm pretty sure Lucas made it up as he went along too. If he didn't, we would not have wound up with Death Star 2.0 and "She's my sister, I've always known!" in Jedi.