BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 1

[Light]

Ok,I want to ask this question respectfully because I think I've been seeing this come up a lot, why is it that people see Cavill's Superman as "unrecognizable?" Because he doesn't yet have the warmth and confidence of his comic book counterpart? Why is it that people will not look at Superman's actions in the past two films? Actions speak louder than words.

One of my favorite moments from Man of Steel was when he was about to go stop the World Engine and Lois says to him "If that thing is from Krypton, won't you be weaker around it?" and then he replies "Maybe....but I'm not about to let that stop me from trying." I mean, damn, is that NOT SUPERMAN in a nutshell? An alien with a good heart thats out to do the right thing no matter what? Without the slightest hesitation the guy gave his life to stop a monster that was going wreak tons of havoc. Thats pretty Superman, imo. I get that people want more warmth from the character and I even agree that he could be written a little less serious all the time. But, to say that this is an "unrecogizable" Superman, I'm sorry, I dont see it. Judging from this guy's actions, he's pretty Superman.

They do indeed, I was put of from MOS regarding this Superman's indifference to the destruction around him or a lack of empathy for those being killed while he engaged in a slug fest. A simple scene highlighting how all the destruction wrought around him affected him greatly would have quelled any criticism I had regarding his actions. Not to mention (I don't care how much you all try and justify it) he let his father die, no decent human being would let their parents die if they had the power to stop it despite the repercussions to themselves. Some people will risk their life for a loved one and will happily die in order to ensure their loved one is safe, that's heroic and selfless not this crap we was presented for the sake of melodrama.

Another thing is the constant brooding and frowning he seems upset all the time and his life seems so dreary no joy in it whatsoever. We have one scene in this trilogy of him relishing and enjoying the abilities that his blessed with and after that its more misery. This Superman lacks charisma and doesnt seem like someone that can inspire heroes, Superman is a hero of heroes and this version just seems like someone with power. What happens when guys with similar abilities come on the scene? He cant awe them simply with his power and he lacks no personality. Can you really see this Superman leading the league? Who would follow him? He cant even get his life straight let alone lead a team of metas. After two movies can you even say what this Superman stands for? Besides saying "I am here to help" what drives the character besides his love for Lois and his mum? Trust me guys it pains me to hate a version of Superman this much but I absolutely cant stand this interpretation of the character and the more I examine whats being done with him the more I hate him.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

The thing is, most reboot trilogies are doing what Snyder is doing with Superman. Lencho mentioned the Daniel Craig Bond films, and that's a perfect example. We never really saw Batman in his prime in the Nolan trilogy. He went from learning the ropes in BB/TDK to being older in TDKR. And we've yet to see Chris Pine's Captain Kirk become the archetypal version.

However, the thing with Bale/Craig/Pine is, their performances still have the iconic traits of their respective characters. For many people, that's not the case with Cavill's Superman. IMO, he seems more like a generic 21st Century Film Superhero than Superman.

Agreed. Cavill worst version of Superman in movies.

 

[Light]

Pushing Doomsday further into space and accepting he'll be nuked too.
Saving Lex by catching Doomsday's fist.
Driving the spear into Doomsday while the spike pushes further into himself.
The Day of the Dead montage and pulling the ship.
Clark's views about Batman thinking he's above the law.
The aftermath of the Senate bombing.

The character is Superman to me. Selfless, heroic and saving the day.

You state all of that but presentation is a big part and some of them were presented poorly especially the little montage we got. No good stating a bunch of things if they were poorly presented and the character looks like he would rather be anywhere but there while performing said feats. This Superman look disinterested most of the time, the most I saw him animated was when he was saving Lois in Africa...............right before slamming the terrorist into the wall.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

You state all of that but presentation is a big part and some of them were presented poorly especially the little montage we got. No good stating a bunch of things if they were poorly presented and the character looks like he would rather be anywhere but there while performing said feats. This Superman look disinterested most of the time, the most I saw him animated was when he was saving Lois in Africa...............right before slamming the terrorist into the wall.

1. Of all the things you know of Superman, why would you say he slammed someone in the wall? Superman would have broken the wall first and the man flew threw with Superman. Superman even said he didn't kill anyone in Africa. I grow tired of that silly complaint.

2. What you state is poorly presented is an opinion. I did not think it was poorly presented. I saw a Superman that was in internal conflict with himself. He couldn't save everyone. The world was beating him down because of it. It's not easy...

3. For years we hear that Superman is boring and no one likes him because he's too powerful and too much of a boy scout. Snyder comes in and gives Superman an interesting internal conflict about what he should do and when and everyone loses their ****. Can.not.win.

 

[Light]

Superman is judged and doubted, but he remains firm in his ideals. It's Batman and the rest of the world that comes over to his side. They realise he really was a good man with good intentions. That's a strong portrayal of Superman in my mind. He doesn't budge even though it's a rocky road.

Unfortunately he does not, this movie has him waver and outright drop these so called ideals (I say so called ideals because we dont know what they are). "No one stays good in this world" Superman also implies that if he cannot convince Batman he will have to kill him. This was not a ruse as it was a dire moment where he actually was contemplating this...................how very Superman like.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

1. Of all the things you know of Superman, why would you say he slammed someone in the wall? Superman would have broken the wall first and the man flew threw with Superman. Superman even said he didn't kill anyone in Africa. I grow tired of that silly complaint.

2. What you state is poorly presented is an opinion. I did not think it was poorly presented. I saw a Superman that was in internal conflict with himself. He couldn't save everyone. The world was beating him down because of it. It's not easy...

3. For years we hear that Superman is boring and no one likes him because he's too powerful and too much of a boy scout. Snyder comes in and gives Superman an interesting internal conflict about what he should do and when and everyone loses their ****. Can.not.win.

Exactly. Superman cannot win. If you're a director just choose Thor over Superman every day, twice on Sunday. Thor can slam a thug through a wall and crack a joke and the audience will laugh and eat it up. Superman smashes through a wall with a thug and people lose their mind! You will never win with Superman. He has to be perfect. And when he becomes so, you still lose because he is boring.

 

[kguillou]

That's kinda how I feel, too. I kinda feel like Superman is damned if he does damned if he doesn't. The guy makes the ultimate heroic sacrifice and the general sentiment is "good, now stay down, mother****er."

Again, I understand people just want more warmth and confidence from the character and honestly, I want it, too and I'm confident we will get that in Justice League. But I can't ignore that everything he's done in the past two films are nothing but selfless acts for mankind. Other than sacrificing his own life, he sacrificed his own moral integrity because he couldn't bear to see Zod take the lives of an innocent family. The guy's been instinctively saving people since he was a boy, and all he gets in return is criticism, yet he still continues to do the right thing. Just because we do not seem him enjoying his heroic feats doesn't make those feats any less heroic. At least imo.

 

[Light]

1. Of all the things you know of Superman, why would you say he slammed someone in the wall? Superman would have broken the wall first and the man flew threw with Superman. Superman even said he didn't kill anyone in Africa. I grow tired of that silly complaint.

2. What you state is poorly presented is an opinion. I did not think it was poorly presented. I saw a Superman that was in internal conflict with himself. He couldn't save everyone. The world was beating him down because of it. It's not easy...

3. For years we hear that Superman is boring and no one likes him because he's too powerful and too much of a boy scout. Snyder comes in and gives Superman an interesting internal conflict about what he should do and when and everyone loses their ****. Can.not.win.

1. Oh the irony, of all the things I know of Superman indeed. As stated I do not believe this Superman is Superman hence his action of slamming someone through a wall makes sense. What he says and what he does conflict, maybe humans are more durable in the Synderverse (might explain how Batman can spray people with bullets and they don't die hence Batman is not a killer).

2. Yes it is an opinion as is all things I state, like I said nothing awe inspiring in the presentation. I want to be in awe when I witness a being moving a ship around like he is lugging a tire behind him. Look at Civil war and the scene with Cap holding the helicopter how amazing was that and it fit withing the narrative of the story. Cap knows if he let Bucky go it might well be the last time he sees him and in sheer desperation holds on to the helicopter for dear life because if he lets his friend go chances are he will be killed by one of the many people after him. Context and narrative can truly uplift a scene, Snyder seems to not realize this.

3.Again Snyder gave an unrecognizable version of the character to the fanbase, nothing wrong with internal conflict but don't let it define the character and be all that he is.

 

[Light]

Exactly. Superman cannot win. If you're a director just choose Thor over Superman every day, twice on Sunday. Thor can slam a thug through a wall and crack a joke and the audience will laugh and eat it up. Superman smashes through a wall with a thug and people lose their mind! You will never win with Superman. He has to be perfect. And when he becomes so, you still lose because he is boring.

Wow compare Superman to Thor..............good lord.

Do I need to explain how both characters are not comparable?

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Wow compare Superman to Thor..............good lord.

Do I need to explain how both characters are not comparable?

There is no incentive for a director to direct Superman when people lose their **** over so many things with him. He has to be perfect. Thor was thrown out just as an example that if a director had to choose between the two, that he is better off with Thor.

 

[gdw]

I would have said personally TASM2.

I wouldn't, but that's probably because I thoroughly enjoyed BvS, LOVED IM3, and did not care for ASM 2 at all.

 

[gdw]

But let's be honest, the people who like Batman and Robin probably enjoy the film on an ironic level. Batman and Robin is an incredibly fun film to watch when you have friends over and play drinking games with. Its a great film to laugh at. I dont think you'll find much people who like the film because they think its a genuinely good film.

It's fun to watch with the director's commentary on, if only so you can listen to Schumacher walk out of his own film near the end.

 

[Light]

There is no incentive for a director to direct Superman when people lose their **** over so many things with him. He has to be perfect. Thor was thrown out just as an example that if a director had to choose between the two, that he is better off with Thor.

And I quote "Thor can slam a thug through a wall and crack a joke and the audience will laugh and eat it up. Superman smashes through a wall with a thug and people lose their mind! You will never win with Superman" that right there is an attempt to compare the two characters which simply doesn't work. Thor is accepted by audiences because he is done well and he embodies the spirit of Thor in the comics (Great noble God warrior) despite humor thrown in. I shouldn't have to put this out there as it should be a given but you cant compare people like Thor to Superman due to their moral compass and what they embody.

 

[gdw]

. . .

I have never seen on film, a Superman that struggles with madness. I have never seen a Superman on film that showcases some of the aspects of humanity we typically look to escape when we watch a movie. That's not bad characterization to me. That was perhaps the most human representation of any CBM character I've ever seen. So much of the human experience is defined by suffering. So to see a character not traditionally associated with that, though traditionally considered to be the most relatable by fans, actually dealing with that for an entire film was incredibly new for me.

. . .

I just wanted to focus on this part, as this was what I found was their way in for Superman. While many fans may find Superman relatable, he is actually generally viewed as one of the most UNrelatable characters. That's always the criticism people throw at him, especially when talking about making a "modern" live action Superman.

This is why I loved this aspect of MOS and BvS and Cavill's Superman. He STRUGGLES. Not physically, but emotionally, both with his place, and his purpose. THAT is a character EVERYONE should be able to relate to.

Instead people just *****ed that he's too moody, and now they just want a Superman who's all hope and optimism. You, precisely the unrelatable flat note they spent so much time criticizing him for before.

 

[gdw]

I think I prefer not to have the scene. It would have been interesting to watch and added a layer of complex humanity to Supes but.....to see Superman hear all those cries and ignore them is maybe a bridge too far. I'd rather just assume that Superman is in panic mode and not thinking totally clearly and goes to Batman for help.

The thing is though, that was already a major theme of the film, so it actually would have fit right it.

He's been criticized for choosing who lives, and who dies, and such a scene would put the audience in his position, and allow us a glimpse of the reality of that choice for him. The burden such power is, especially in the face of an already horrific situation.

 

[souperman]

They're the longest origin story I've ever seen.

Ok yes...CR origin, Bond - QoS origin,QoS (aka Spectre) -Skyfall origin, M - Spectre origin Blofeld/Spectre...

“It’s about going back to the source material,” Cavill replies when asked how he approached the role a second time around. “There’s an awful lot of psychology in Superman, because it’s the one way that you can find to crack the shell. When it comes to playing the character – especially in this movie, because we still get to see the growth of Superman before we see the fully developed character that we know and love from the comic books – it’s about delving into the psychology and discovering the weaknesses therein. It’s about playing upon the conflicts that he has.”
How has Superman changed in Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice? “For me, this felt very much like the development of Superman, and the development of the character that we know and love from the comic book,” Cavill replies. “We’re still not there yet. We’re looking at the guy growing up. He’s become this super man after discovering that he was Kal-El in the first movie, and now he’s facing off against this second guy. It’s a tough outing for him, because it’s against a psychological enemy, as opposed to a physical enemy like General Zod was. We see him make mistakes, and we see him grow from those mistakes.”


Basically the whole arc of Clark is growing to be the Superman we know from MOS-BvS-JL.

And the guys saying he didnt do anything hopeful in the movie : Did you miss the last thing he did?Declaring this world as his own and sacrificing himself for it?And then the whole world accepting him as "If you seek his monument,look around you".If thats not hopeful nothing is.

Amen brother

Not a fan of trilogies are you?

Also the vast majority want a lot of things that are ****. It won't kill them to watch a few films dealing with the development and evolution and growth of a character. It's not like WB and Zack are taking 9 hours to give the charactes his powers. He has them and he is Superman. JuBut he is an emotionally complex and growing character. Not some prepackaged cookie cutter archetype from the get go, and nor should he be after a single film.

I'm not sure what I hate more. That origin films happen as much as they do or that they try to cram a complex journey and massive character growth into only two-thirds of a film. A character should never stop growing and evolving. And they shouldn't go from being one type of person to being a flawless superhero in only 90 - 120 minutes.

That is the crux of the matter - 90 minute gratification ! But some just want to see what they want to see.

Ok,I want to ask this question respectfully because I think I've been seeing this come up a lot, why is it that people see Cavill's Superman as "unrecognizable?" Because he doesn't yet have the warmth and confidence of his comic book counterpart? Why is it that people will not look at Superman's actions in the past two films? Actions speak louder than words.

One of my favorite moments from Man of Steel was when he was about to go stop the World Engine and Lois says to him "If that thing is from Krypton, won't you be weaker around it?" and then he replies "Maybe....but I'm not about to let that stop me from trying." I mean, damn, is that NOT SUPERMAN in a nutshell? An alien with a good heart thats out to do the right thing no matter what? Without the slightest hesitation the guy gave his life to stop a monster that was going wreak tons of havoc. Thats pretty Superman, imo. I get that people want more warmth from the character and I even agree that he could be written a little less serious all the time. But, to say that this is an "unrecogizable" Superman, I'm sorry, I dont see it. Judging from this guy's actions, he's pretty Superman.

Maybe if he stood, fists on hips - akimbo and surveyed the landscape they would recognize him?

The thing is, most reboot trilogies are doing what Snyder is doing with Superman. Lencho mentioned the Daniel Craig Bond films, and that's a perfect example. We never really saw Batman in his prime in the Nolan trilogy. He went from learning the ropes in BB/TDK to being older in TDKR. And we've yet to see Chris Pine's Captain Kirk become the archetypal version.

Wasnt Batman in his prime in TDK ? How much more prime could he get in that universe? Pine was all Kirk at the end of ST and all thru ITD.

However, the thing with Bale/Craig/Pine is, their performances still have the iconic traits of their respective characters. For many people, that's not the case with Cavill's Superman. IMO, he seems more like a generic 21st Century Film Superhero than Superman.

Generic hero?

I dunno, he looks pretty iconic to me.
Yesetrday I watched MOS again and it struck me that his greatest moment was him destroying the World Enigine. It took everything he had and just as in BvS he was willing to give his live for the people on earth.
Sure he doesn't hug anyone or rescues a kitten out of tree, but there's no other Superman movie that shows Superman actually willing to give up his life to save the human race other than MOS and BvS twice.

To me it doesn't get more Super than that.

But he didn't smile or have fun "being" Superman.

Pushing Doomsday further into space and accepting he'll be nuked too.
Saving Lex by catching Doomsday's fist.
Driving the spear into Doomsday while the spike pushes further into himself.
The Day of the Dead montage and pulling the ship.
Clark's views about Batman thinking he's above the law.
The aftermath of the Senate bombing.

The character is Superman to me. Selfless, heroic and saving the day.

Better believe it...

1. Of all the things you know of Superman, why would you say he slammed someone in the wall? Superman would have broken the wall first and the man flew threw with Superman. Superman even said he didn't kill anyone in Africa. I grow tired of that silly complaint.

2. What you state is poorly presented is an opinion. I did not think it was poorly presented. I saw a Superman that was in internal conflict with himself. He couldn't save everyone. The world was beating him down because of it. It's not easy...

3. For years we hear that Superman is boring and no one likes him because he's too powerful and too much of a boy scout. Snyder comes in and gives Superman an interesting internal conflict about what he should do and when and everyone loses their ****. Can.not.win.

Too true.

Unfortunately he does not, this movie has him waver and outright drop these so called ideals (I say so called ideals because we dont know what they are). "No one stays good in this world" Superman also implies that if he cannot convince Batman he will have to kill him. This was not a ruse as it was a dire moment where he actually was contemplating this...................how very Superman like.

You have totally misread the intentions and inflection IMO. When saying that, he was disgusted by human nature, that someone could be so evil and cruel. He never had any intention to kill Batman. How do I know this? Because I "know" Superman's credo. I trust in his moral compass. In the film, he says it that way to create a question and make people wonder how far he will go, but if you knew Superman you would know that that action is just not in his wheelhouse. He could not do it. He would have let his mother die rather than be manipulated into killing an "innocent" man and destroying all that his Mother instilled in him. She would not accept it any more than his father and Clark would not disappoint his mother...even to save her. She couldn't live with it and neither could he. Your problem IMO is that you do not trust this Superman, just like many in the film. You are unsure of his real and future intentions which is why you doubt his moral fiber. I know Superman and therefor trust and understand that he is doing the right and best thing whenever he can.

 

[souperman]

That's kinda how I feel, too. I kinda feel like Superman is damned if he does damned if he doesn't. The guy makes the ultimate heroic sacrifice and the general sentiment is "good, now stay down, mother****er."

Again, I understand people just want more warmth and confidence from the character and honestly, I want it, too and I'm confident we will get that in Justice League. But I can't ignore that everything he's done in the past two films are nothing but selfless acts for mankind. Other than sacrificing his own life, he sacrificed his own moral integrity because he couldn't bear to see Zod take the lives of an innocent family. The guy's been instinctively saving people since he was a boy, and all he gets in return is criticism, yet he still continues to do the right thing. Just because we do not seem him enjoying his heroic feats doesn't make those feats any less heroic. At least imo.

Exactly. And exactly the point of the films. Snyder is showing that even with best intentions people still resent. He shows that Clark is confused by this love hate relationship with humanity. Here he is, always doing the right thing and sacrificing himself over and over to save people that may not appreciate or understand him. (sounds familiar for many men and women in service)

Clark is shown to "wonder" about his place in the world and IF the world is ready and will accept him in MOS. He shows humility and does not use his great power to force his will as he easily could. In BvS he finds that it is a mixed bag and considers withdrawing if only to eliminate the "problems he is seen to have created" and only after the father scene does he conclude that even if some hate him, he will stay and do what he can to help humanity.

 

[kguillou]

Well said Souperman, it's internal conflict, that's all. EVERY hero goes through it. Spiderman hung up his costume for a portion of Spiderman 2. There was even that scene where Peter witnesses the mugging and does nothing about it because he convinced himself he could no longer be Spiderman. Reeve did the same thing in Superman II, which could be argued is way more selfish, he gave up his powers just so he could be with Lois. Its these things that make these larger than life characters human and relate-able.

I think a lot of the criticism towards this interpretation is valid and debatable but what irks me is when people blatantly ignore the plain fact that Cavill's Superman retains the core heroic, selfless aspects and claim he some twisted bastardization of the character. He's a Superman that does Superman things. He's conflicted, he's not 100% sure of himself and his place in the world but at the end of the day when he sees a burning building in Mexico on tv, he will rip his shirt open and go to help them.

 

[Lencho01]

Ok yes...CR origin, Bond - QoS origin,QoS (aka Spectre) -Skyfall origin, M - Spectre origin Blofeld/Spectre...

That and how with each film, they're always saying something to the effect of "Ok, guys! Now, he's gonna be the Bond you know and love!"

I was slightly making jest of the argument used for this Superman among some fans that the next film is going to be with the one "We know and love."

 

[idiot09]

You have totally misread the intentions and inflection IMO. When saying that, he was disgusted by human nature, that someone could be so evil and cruel. He never had any intention to kill Batman. How do I know this? Because I "know" Superman's credo. I trust in his moral compass. In the film, he says it that way to create a question and make people wonder how far he will go, but if you knew Superman you would know that that action is just not in his wheelhouse. He could not do it. He would have let his mother die rather than be manipulated into killing an "innocent" man and destroying all that his Mother instilled in him. She would not accept it any more than his father and Clark would not disappoint his mother...even to save her. She couldn't live with it and neither could he. Your problem IMO is that you do not trust this Superman, just like many in the film. You are unsure of his real and future intentions which is why you doubt his moral fiber. I know Superman and therefor trust and understand that he is doing the right and best thing whenever he can.

You dont even have to infer it.Clark said it himself.

"If I wanted it,you would be dead already".

 

[Spider-jedi]

i have been reading this thread for a while and i wanted to add my 2 cents. Im not a fan of the movie but i still told people to see it cuz i want more cbm. I didnt like alot about the movie but my biggest issue was not the portrayal of superman but that of clark kent. Clark was almost non existent in the movie. Hes only friends were lois and his mom. Hes been at the daily plant over a year and made no friends. I saw this character and i though who does he share a beer with? its not Perry, Jimmy is dead(thanks obama) also he doesn't do his job and yet he still has it.

I truly believe that if they had a better color filter it would have been better. imagine if when superman is on screen the filter is a bit brighter while its dark for batman to show how different their worlds are. For me the movie showed them as the same side of one coin.

Im fine with him not smiling think about it how many do you smile while doing your job. do you see fire fighters smiling while saving people.

 

[StormC]

My biggest problem is I feel like I don't know Clark at all. What his life was like growing up before he was Kal-El. What are his likes and dislikes? His hopes and dreams? I honestly couldn't quote a single line he says in MOS besides the horrible "YOU'RE A MONSTER ZOD AND I'M GONNA STOP YOU."

 

[The Joker]

They do indeed, I was put of from MOS regarding this Superman's indifference to the destruction around him or a lack of empathy for those being killed while he engaged in a slug fest. A simple scene highlighting how all the destruction wrought around him affected him greatly would have quelled any criticism I had regarding his actions. Not to mention (I don't care how much you all try and justify it) he let his father die, no decent human being would let their parents die if they had the power to stop it despite the repercussions to themselves. Some people will risk their life for a loved one and will happily die in order to ensure their loved one is safe, that's heroic and selfless not this crap we was presented for the sake of melodrama.

Another thing is the constant brooding and frowning he seems upset all the time and his life seems so dreary no joy in it whatsoever. We have one scene in this trilogy of him relishing and enjoying the abilities that his blessed with and after that its more misery. This Superman lacks charisma and doesnt seem like someone that can inspire heroes, Superman is a hero of heroes and this version just seems like someone with power. What happens when guys with similar abilities come on the scene? He cant awe them simply with his power and he lacks no personality. Can you really see this Superman leading the league? Who would follow him? He cant even get his life straight let alone lead a team of metas. After two movies can you even say what this Superman stands for? Besides saying "I am here to help" what drives the character besides his love for Lois and his mum? Trust me guys it pains me to hate a version of Superman this much but I absolutely cant stand this interpretation of the character and the more I examine whats being done with him the more I hate him.

And I quote "Thor can slam a thug through a wall and crack a joke and the audience will laugh and eat it up. Superman smashes through a wall with a thug and people lose their mind! You will never win with Superman" that right there is an attempt to compare the two characters which simply doesn't work. Thor is accepted by audiences because he is done well and he embodies the spirit of Thor in the comics (Great noble God warrior) despite humor thrown in. I shouldn't have to put this out there as it should be a given but you cant compare people like Thor to Superman due to their moral compass and what they embody.

1. Oh the irony, of all the things I know of Superman indeed. As stated I do not believe this Superman is Superman hence his action of slamming someone through a wall makes sense. What he says and what he does conflict, maybe humans are more durable in the Synderverse (might explain how Batman can spray people with bullets and they don't die hence Batman is not a killer).

2. Yes it is an opinion as is all things I state, like I said nothing awe inspiring in the presentation. I want to be in awe when I witness a being moving a ship around like he is lugging a tire behind him. Look at Civil war and the scene with Cap holding the helicopter how amazing was that and it fit withing the narrative of the story. Cap knows if he let Bucky go it might well be the last time he sees him and in sheer desperation holds on to the helicopter for dear life because if he lets his friend go chances are he will be killed by one of the many people after him. Context and narrative can truly uplift a scene, Snyder seems to not realize this.

3.Again Snyder gave an unrecognizable version of the character to the fanbase, nothing wrong with internal conflict but don't let it define the character and be all that he is.

Well said

 

[idiot09]

i have been reading this thread for a while and i wanted to add my 2 cents. Im not a fan of the movie but i still told people to see it cuz i want more cbm. I didnt like alot about the movie but my biggest issue was not the portrayal of superman but that of clark kent. Clark was almost non existent in the movie. Hes only friends were lois and his mom. Hes been at the daily plant over a year and made no friends. I saw this character and i though who does he share a beer with? its not Perry, Jimmy is dead(thanks obama) also he doesn't do his job and yet he still has it.

I truly believe that if they had a better color filter it would have been better. imagine if when superman is on screen the filter is a bit brighter while its dark for batman to show how different their worlds are. For me the movie showed them as the same side of one coin.

Im fine with him not smiling think about it how many do you smile while doing your job. do you see fire fighters smiling while saving people.

There is a lot more of Clark in the ultimate cut.

 

[Sleiek]

i have been reading this thread for a while and i wanted to add my 2 cents. Im not a fan of the movie but i still told people to see it cuz i want more cbm. I didnt like alot about the movie but my biggest issue was not the portrayal of superman but that of clark kent. Clark was almost non existent in the movie. Hes only friends were lois and his mom. Hes been at the daily plant over a year and made no friends. I saw this character and i though who does he share a beer with? its not Perry, Jimmy is dead(thanks obama) also he doesn't do his job and yet he still has it.

I truly believe that if they had a better color filter it would have been better. imagine if when superman is on screen the filter is a bit brighter while its dark for batman to show how different their worlds are. For me the movie showed them as the same side of one coin.

Im fine with him not smiling think about it how many do you smile while doing your job. do you see fire fighters smiling while saving people.

Larry Fong is upset you used that term.
--

I just watched the final act of Man of Steel. Did that feel a little different. As soon as they crash into the building, I was like Bad Move. Years from now, when I show the movie to my kids, I am gonna tell them it is Bruce Wayne's building.