BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 2

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I think they got it right, the tracker was right to be Plan B. He didn't know how guarded it was gonna be when it got to it's destination. It would definitely be easier, if Superman hadn't gotten involved, to take out the truck and the guards and take it then, rather than assume "I'll just break in and take it when it gets to it's destination, I'm sure it will be easy enough."
Which is why he should've taken it BEFORE they ever loaded it into the truck. He had scoped out the area, he had the vantage point and the element of surprise. He clearly didn't have any problem breaking into LexCorp and taking the thing. It's not like he didn't know where it was going, either; he knew Luthor was behind it.

It was dumb and it only existed to have a Batmobile action sequence. Gotta sell those toys!
 
UC didn't change anything for me. I wanted my friend (who is CBM fan) to see and he was bored after an hour wanted to do something else. We stopped the movie.

He doesn't even high standards like me. Not just hated Lex, found some scenes bad but mostly got bored. That's alarming part. I felt same in theatre.

I thought it might be a bad movie but never thought it can be boring one. I thought it was impossible to make a boring movie with Superman & Batman in it, promising a fight between them. (Not to mention Lex, Wonderwoman, Doomsday and cameos from JL)

I hope suicide squad is nothing like that.
 
That was kind of the point though, in terms of this Batman who had "lost his way". He was not only callous and reckless, but also unsympathetic. All of his focus was on his misguided mission to destroy Superman, rather than on attempting to preserve life or giving these criminals the chance to be rehabilitated/redeemed.



I disagree. The UC has much more of an even balance between Batman and Superman's equally-important arcs, with neither of them truly dominating the story. It's actually much more of a 3-person triangle (Batman, Superman, Lex) than the TC was.



IMO, one of the smartest things this film did was using the MOS Metropolis as the inciting incident that turned Batman against Superman. It gives him a real, legitimate reason to fear Superman and the power he possesses. But that was really just the "straw that broke the camel's back" in terms of pushing Batman over the edge, and part of his distrust from Superman did stem from all of his past experiences and failures as Batman, which is what you just suggested. The movie explicitly states this:

Alfred: You're gonna go to war?

Bruce Wayne: That son of a ***** brought the war to us two years ago. Jesus, Alfred, count the dead... thousands of people. What's next? Millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty... and we have to destroy him.

Alfred: But he is not our enemy!

Bruce Wayne: Not today. Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?


The film also paints the picture of a Batman who feels he hasn't accomplished much in his 20-year crusade. He's lost faith in himself and in humanity. He's watched good people turn bad (as expressed above). He's lost a friend and partner (Robin) at the hands of his greatest enemy. He feels that criminals are like weeds, and also describes himself and Alfred as having always been criminals (as opposed to heroes). The existence of Superman and the Metropolis battle (in which he was powerless to stop the senseless violence just as he was powerless to stop his parents' murder) are like big exclamation points on top of his already cynical point of view.

He tells Alfred that killing Superman might be the only thing he does that will matter and it will be his "legacy". He misguidedly feels that this is the only thing he can do to truly make a difference and save people at this point, but subconsciously, I imagine he felt that doing this would fill the void in his soul.

Personally, I think it was a really interesting take on a veteran Batman. It was the portrait of a man who had become a shell of his former self. A man consumed by cynicism who had fallen into darkness and despair, and needed to find a way to crawl back out of that darkness, to be saved from himself, to learn to feel hope again and believe in the inherent goodness of people, to remember the kind of hero he once was and why he ever became Batman in the first place -- not to hunt people, but to save people.

Superman, on the other hand, was someone who had an idealistic point of view, truly believed in the good of others, and had faith in humanity. He was a man trying to do the right thing and help people however he could (both as Clark and as Superman), but he existed in a world that was much more cynical and jaded than himself. In BvS, his idealism is tested every step of the way. He bears witness to people (Lex) committing truly evil acts that he never imagined or expected ("I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking"), he deals with the unintended consequences of his good deeds, he's questioned/rejected by his people and told that he shouldn't intervene as he sees fit, he's manipulated, he's hunted and nearly killed by men, the lives of his loved ones are threatened because of him, etc.

And although he does question his idealism and nearly falls into that Batman-level of cynicism at one point ("Nobody stays good in this world"), he doesn't give in or give up. He never loses his faith in humanity, he winds up reaffirming his belief that this world is worth fighting for, and in turn, Superman and his actions are ultimately what save Batman.

Well said. :up:
 
I'll be honest, and this is coming from someone who really enjoys the film, especially the UC, I feel there still needed to be that "enough is enough!" moment for both Batman and Superman to really fuel the duel between them. I mean, I guess Superman knocking over Batman's car was the declaration of war (to Batman) but I think there needed to be...I dunno, some kind of incident that painted Superman as directly culpable in which leads Batman to go "I was right, this guy is evil, he needs to go down."

I assumed that was what the Knightmare/dream sequence was for.
 
UC didn't change anything for me. I wanted my friend (who is CBM fan) to see and he was bored after an hour wanted to do something else. We stopped the movie.

He doesn't even high standards like me. Not just hated Lex, found some scenes bad but mostly got bored. That's alarming part. I felt same in theatre.

I thought it might be a bad movie but never thought it can be boring one. I thought it was impossible to make a boring movie with Superman & Batman in it, promising a fight between them. (Not to mention Lex, Wonderwoman, Doomsday and cameos from JL)

I hope suicide squad is nothing like that.

Not gonna lie, I was a great hater of this movie and the theatrical cut is still bad. But I've watched the UC twice now and I have to say... I really like it.

There's still stupid stuff I wish they had not done, but overall I think it's good.
 
I assumed that was what the Knightmare/dream sequence was for.

But Bruce can't go to war with this guy over a dream. Bruce doesn't even fully understand it himself. What I would have done is, have Batman involved in some kind of incident orchestrated by Lex in which people die and it LOOKS like Batman killed innocent people. This gives Clark the push to directly confront Batman. Superman initiates a small physical confrontation with Batman and Batman takes it as a declaration of war and gives him that extra push to build the mech suit and fight Superman for real.
 
Not gonna lie, I was a great hater of this movie and the theatrical cut is still bad. But I've watched the UC twice now and I have to say... I really like it.

There's still stupid stuff I wish they had not done, but overall I think it's good.
Wow. That's surprising. I drop by these boards usually only post-movie releases, so usernames tend to stick in my mind. I do remember you really, really hated it. I mean, I get you still don't love it, but I'm still surprised, most people seem to be still in the same camps as before.

Well, in the forums at least.

I assumed that was what the Knightmare/dream sequence was for.

Honestly, the only thing the Knightmare was for was Justice League. The fact that it died to the story at all was probably out of necessity (and misdirect the audience into thinking Bruce may after all be right).

Can't blame you for that, though; given the chance, I'd cut out all of the JL teases.

As far as the story goes, Bruce is mostly passive to Superman until he crashes the Batmobile. He has a plan for the Kryptonite, but he hasn't really decided to go up against Superman yet. The Black Zero is Strike 1, crashing the car is Strike 2 (Superman is violating his personal space at that point) and the Capitol bombing is Strike 3.
 
I felt very out of place while watching the knightmare sequence but then Flash said"I'm too soon" so I guess it was like that by design so I didn't mind it because its supposed to be this out of place confusing scene that pays off later.

I really liked how they tied in the JL stuff to the whole WW investigation side of the movie so they didn't feel shoehorned in,but the scene placement was off.Same with the communion scene,it felt out of place tonally.But overall I think all of the JL teases were done well,and I don't get why people complain about the JL stuff considering the movie had literally Dawn of Justice in the title.
 
Not gonna lie, I was a great hater of this movie and the theatrical cut is still bad. But I've watched the UC twice now and I have to say... I really like it.

There's still stupid stuff I wish they had not done, but overall I think it's good.

Good to see that.

Wow. That's surprising. I drop by these boards usually only post-movie releases, so usernames tend to stick in my mind. I do remember you really, really hated it. I mean, I get you still don't love it, but I'm still surprised, most people seem to be still in the same camps as before.

Well, in the forums at least.

Not all movies have to be great or worst, there are many movies that lie in between, for instance, X-Men First Class and Iron Man 3 are not very good but not bad either, there are some things in them that I like.
 
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Not all movie have to be great or worst, there are many movies that like in between, for instance, X-Men First Class and Iron Man 3 are not very good but not bad either, there are some things in them that I like.
I know, I'm just saying, this kind of change in opinion is fairly rare in fansites.
 
True.Ive seen a lot of people going fro meh to like for the bvs uc on the internet.Surprisingly in real life,I haven't met a single person who hated the film(I live in a college dormitory know a lot of people).Theres a group the liked the film and there are people who thought it was decent but nothing special.

I was avoiding the internet for days before the movie came out so that jt wouldn't cloud my judgement.I saw the movie and the whole theatre clapped at the end.I was left breathless and gave it a solid 8.(later reduced to 7.5 and after uc 8.5).

I was shocked to see the hate and vitriol against this movie on the internet.I never liked a movie so much before that the critics didn't so much so I was absolutely flabbergasted.
 
It's funny how theater crowds differ. I had an interesting theater experience. You could tell my crowd WANTED to like it and was willing to go with it, they laughed at the few moments of levity like when Martha met Batman and cheered when Wonder Woman came onscreen. But the most interesting moment was when we got that Trinity shot, I distinctly remember there was a few people in the audience who started to clap but then backed down because no one else was, and I think it was because that moment was played so serious and, let's be honest, the musical cue wasn't exactly on point during that moment unlike the Avengers circle shot when Alan Silvestri's theme swells.

It felt like my crowd was trying to get into it but the dark tone put them off unfortunately.
 
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It felt like my crowd was trying to get into it but the dark tone put them off unfortunately.

The dark criticism really irks me because a) it wasn't really that dark, and b) what did you expect?! I wouldn't expect a bright and colorful movie where Batman and Superman fight, and Superman dies after defeating Doomsday.

Plus, since we knew JL was going to be brighter, I was reminded of the quote from The Dark Knight: "The night is darkest just before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming."
 
The dark criticism really irks me because a) it wasn't really that dark, and b) what did you expect?! I wouldn't expect a bright and colorful movie where Batman and Superman fight, and Superman dies after defeating Doomsday.

Plus, since we knew JL was going to be brighter, I was reminded of the quote from The Dark Knight: "The night is darkest just before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming."

Yeah you are absolutely right.The crowd I went to went wild on two four occasions :
-Superman saving that girl witht the epic music
-do you bleed
-superman steeling up to batmans punches
-ww entrance

The last one the most.
 
While I otherwise liked the UC (didn't like the theatrical that much but didn't hate it either) there's one change (an admittedly small one but still useless and superflous) that irks me:

- In the theatrical movie, there's a scene in which Doomsday sends Superman flying (they're in Hero's Park) through a building. A helicopter approaches, Doomsday looks at it and jumps. He misses the helicopter but his jump still sends him flying to LexCorp tower. It was all fine. Then, for some reason, the UC decided they wanted to have that helicopter explode. And it was just so obvious they did it for gratuitous destruction...
 
I've watched the UE. Now I regret watching the TC
 
I distinctly remember there was a few people in the audience who started to clap but then backed down because no one else was, and I think it was because that moment was played so serious and, let's be honest, the musical cue wasn't exactly on point during that moment unlike the Avengers circle shot when Alan Silvestri's theme swells.
I don't think it was the tone. I think the ones who started clapping are comic book fans. Those that didn't probably aren't. But no, I don't mean only fans would clap at a good team shot-- you mentioned Avengers, after all. Thing is, when that shot in Avengers happened, there was a whole movie of developing the entire team, so when you get that shot it's the moment when the heroes have overcome their conflict. It's by design (and definition) clap-worthy.

Batman v Superman doesn't have that. Wonder Woman is an after-thought and the Trinity really isn't the point of this movie. Hell, Superman and Diana don't exchange more than one line. Unless you spent your life waiting for that moment, it's hard to cheer for it, regardless of tone.

The running time probably didn't help either.

I saw the TC 3 times and in every single one my experience was different. In the first one little boys loved it, adults were on the middle. In the second one, with less people (and no kids), everyone seemed to like it quite a lot (most of the audience were under the age of 25, in the first showing we had parents and 50yr olds as well). The third screening was more along the lines of the second, though at that point I had stopped paying attention.

My best friend (in my second screening) didn't say anything to presumably not hurt my feelings, but I could tell he didn't really like. He didn't hate it or anything, but I'm pretty positive he was confused AF. I *know* that Knightmare didn't work, because when it happened he literally said (in the theatre, loudly) "I have no idea what the f-- I just watched". He had liked MoS, though and when I told him about the UC he was very receptive to watching it again.

Honestly, though, we see the fan-reaction and the RT score (which doesn't mean what most people think it means) and believe this movie was hated by most people or something. Just like most people don't nitpick details on forums for the movies they like, they don't do that for the ones they don't like either. Chances are they're just okay with it, but have forgotten all about it and the promotion of Justice League will be the point that that movie's success will be decided. The consensus was that it was average. Nothing more, nothing less.

What I'm concerned with is the home release. DO NOT RELEASE THE THEATRICAL CUT. Please, WB, that'll do more harm than good. Just... don't. Don't. You won't be able to wash that away. Just... no. Go straight to the UC. Flip the tables. Make the UC the proper release and switch the TC to "redacted" or "the PG-13 version" or something.
 
That's what I have been saying for the past few weeks. WB shouldn't be releasing the Theatrical cut. If you have two versions and one of those versions is clearly superior then that's the only version you should be releasing. But the Ultimate Cut is goddamn R rated.
 
^ See, the thing is, they're treating the UC as if it's a "special edition". But we're not talking cute deleted scenes that are just fun to watch. This isn't the Extended edition of Fellowship of the Ring. The UC is the ONLY proper movie. What it includes is literally the backbone of the entire film.

And the thing is, they want the PG-13 rating to attract sales and rentals for children. Well... honestly, I wouldn't show the TC of BvS to any kid under the age of 12 and at that age you can cut straight to the UC. Those rating systems are ridiculous and arbitrary AF, but there is nothing in the full movie that a 13 or a 15 year old can't process.

So, essentially WB is putting out the butchered version of the movie, an overlong trailer, to attract customers on the PG-13 rating-- which financially makes sense short term, but in reality makes very little difference.
 
^ See, the thing is, they're treating the UC as if it's a "special edition". But we're not talking cute deleted scenes that are just fun to watch. This isn't the Extended edition of Fellowship of the Ring. The UC is the ONLY proper movie. What it includes is literally the backbone of the entire film.

And the thing is, they want the PG-13 rating to attract sales and rentals for children. Well... honestly, I wouldn't show the TC of BvS to any kid under the age of 12 and at that age you can cut straight to the UC. Those rating systems are ridiculous and arbitrary AF, but there is nothing in the full movie that a 13 or a 15 year old can't process.

So, essentially WB is putting out the butchered version of the movie, an overlong trailer, to attract customers on the PG-13 rating-- which financially makes sense short term, but in reality makes very little difference.

Hence the fight I had with this one guy from another thread, because he sees director's cuts as novelty items, and doesn't think BvS could be better with it.

And he's a reviewer for a podcast, and I trusted him before, and he called me a fanboy! :cmad:
 
Hence the fight I had with this one guy from another thread, because he sees director's cuts as novelty items, and doesn't think BvS could be better with it.

And he's a reviewer for a podcast, and I trusted him before, and he called me a fanboy! :cmad:
He is wrong, but again, I can't blame him! Warner goes about this in all the wrong ways. They released a butchered movie in theatres, now they're releasing the proper movie and they give it a delay and treat it as an extra, a deleted scenes special.

And now people interested will buy the TC, will get confused and unless they're fans or at least cinephiles, they will just dismiss the UC altogether. Because why wouldn't they?
 
I don't think it was the tone. I think the ones who started clapping are comic book fans. Those that didn't probably aren't. But no, I don't mean only fans would clap at a good team shot-- you mentioned Avengers, after all. Thing is, when that shot in Avengers happened, there was a whole movie of developing the entire team, so when you get that shot it's the moment when the heroes have overcome their conflict. It's by design (and definition) clap-worthy.

Batman v Superman doesn't have that. Wonder Woman is an after-thought and the Trinity really isn't the point of this movie. Hell, Superman and Diana don't exchange more than one line. Unless you spent your life waiting for that moment, it's hard to cheer for it, regardless of tone.

The running time probably didn't help either.

I saw the TC 3 times and in every single one my experience was different. In the first one little boys loved it, adults were on the middle. In the second one, with less people (and no kids), everyone seemed to like it quite a lot (most of the audience were under the age of 25, in the first showing we had parents and 50yr olds as well). The third screening was more along the lines of the second, though at that point I had stopped paying attention.

My best friend (in my second screening) didn't say anything to presumably not hurt my feelings, but I could tell he didn't really like. He didn't hate it or anything, but I'm pretty positive he was confused AF. I *know* that Knightmare didn't work, because when it happened he literally said (in the theatre, loudly) "I have no idea what the f-- I just watched". He had liked MoS, though and when I told him about the UC he was very receptive to watching it again.

Honestly, though, we see the fan-reaction and the RT score (which doesn't mean what most people think it means) and believe this movie was hated by most people or something. Just like most people don't nitpick details on forums for the movies they like, they don't do that for the ones they don't like either. Chances are they're just okay with it, but have forgotten all about it and the promotion of Justice League will be the point that that movie's success will be decided. The consensus was that it was average. Nothing more, nothing less.

What I'm concerned with is the home release. DO NOT RELEASE THE THEATRICAL CUT. Please, WB, that'll do more harm than good. Just... don't. Don't. You won't be able to wash that away. Just... no. Go straight to the UC. Flip the tables. Make the UC the proper release and switch the TC to "redacted" or "the PG-13 version" or something.

I both agree and disagree with what your saying. You're right, Avengers was actually about these 6 people coming together and that circle shot was the triumphant payoff for the movie and for the audience.

But.

I think it's very telling that in a movie where Batman and Superman are the stars, almost unanimously, audiences all over went wild for Wonder Woman. I guarantee you even people who didn't know or didn't like Wonder Woman loved her entrance. And I think that is a result of 1) Gadot's badass presence onscreen and 2) Zimmer's energetic score that kicks in. I think that trinity shot lacked that epic heroic musical cue that would make people want to stand up and clap.
 
He is wrong, but again, I can't blame him! Warner goes about this in all the wrong ways. They released a butchered movie in theatres, now they're releasing the proper movie and they give it a delay and treat it as an extra, a deleted scenes special.

And now people interested will buy the TC, will get confused and unless they're fans or at least cinephiles, they will just dismiss the UC altogether. Because why wouldn't they?

Well the people who know the praising the movie is getting has Ultimate Edition as its title. I would assume once the blu ray is popped in, they would go for the thing that says "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Ultimate Edition".
 
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i really wish they got rid of the dream sequence because it just confuses the audiences if your gonna tease the audience atleast have it make sense or dont show it at all

i showed my dad the movie and he had no idea WTF was going on

The knightmare, the crypt and the superman mountain sequence made no sense to my father-in-law. He also kept asking why they were fighting.
 
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