BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 1

[StormC]

I don't want to and can't relate to Superman. He is awesome in every way we are not.

I should be able to relate to Clark Kent.

 

[Da-Scribe]

They're the same thing in the DCEU though. Their hopes and fears come from the same places. I'm not condemning the separation of the two. I just think there's merit to a version of Clark/Superman that can't turn it off. He cares either way. He doubts either way. No coping mechanisms in play. Just dealing with life. There's so much strength in that.

 

[gdw]

So, is there any way to get a notification for when discussion turns back to the ultimate edit?

 

[The Batman]

The kind of Batman you describe is boring!

Damn. I guess you didn't like the Batman from the Bruce Timm Series. Or the Arkham Games. Or most of the comics, for that matter.

In TDKR he overcomes again and regains his strength and resolve. Why is this bad?

No one said this is bad. Nobody. You asked how Nolan Batman wasn't in his prime in TDK, and I answered. I never said Nolan's portrayal of Batman was bad, just that he wasn't depicted as being in his "prime".

He did all the Kirkish things including sacrificing his life for his crew...He was a brilliant, witty ladies man who loves to fight...the only thing I'm not sure if he did yet is the flying double leg kick ! Pretty Kirkish to me.

You seem to have a problem with either remembering things, or you've decided to start making strawman arguments, so let me remind you of something:

However, the thing with Bale/Craig/Pine is, their performances still have the iconic traits of their respective characters. For many people, that's not the case with Cavill's Superman. IMO, he seems more like a generic 21st Century Film Superhero than Superman.

 

[jmc]

I really hate that I have to bring this up but I've just completed watching the first Supergirl season and it really showcases just how easy it is to have compelling arcs and stories for a god-like character. That show tackles the struggles of being a hero and even brings up the same questions that are asked upon Superman in MoS and BvS. The difference between the two interpretations is one is always remembering their hero is suppose to represent something whilst the other is too busy trying to disprove something. Despite its light tone and at times silliness and lame plot devices, from a character perspective Supergirl is a better representation of what can be done with these character concepts.

 

[Marvolo]

This is exactly it. How old is Clark supposed to be in MOS? 30? He acts half that age.

You must not know any 15 year olds if you think Kal acts like a 15 year old.

 

[Da-Scribe]

You must not know any 15 year olds if you think Kal acts like a 15 year old.

Pretty much. That's not teenage behavior in any of these films b

 

[idiot09]

Speaking of the Ultimate Cut,

A lot of people who have seen it are saying that this edition,the narrative flows a lot more smoothly,the pacing is a lot better,there are no jarring edits(like in the TC) and the story is a lot more coherent.

For the sake of argument,considering its true,would this vindicate Snyder of the blame that he is not a good storyteller?Would you be more confident about the Justice League?

Also I would like to state this,its not Snyder's fault that the script was 3hrs long.The script was written by Terrio and Goyer.Snyder was just the director.So lets not say "yeah but he cant take 3hrs to tell a coherent story".

 

[matt47]

Speaking of the Ultimate Cut,

A lot of people who have seen it are saying that this edition,the narrative flows a lot more smoothly,the pacing is a lot better,there are no jarring edits(like in the TC) and the story is a lot more coherent.

For the sake of argument,considering its true,would this vindicate Snyder of the blame that he is not a good storyteller?Would you be more confident about the Justice League?

Also I would like to state this,its not Snyder's fault that the script was 3hrs long.The script was written by Terrio and Goyer.Snyder was just the director.So lets not say "yeah but he cant take 3hrs to tell a coherent story".

Wasn't Snyder's name on the script also at the start of pre production? He and Goyer came up with the overall story too and we know that it was Snyder's who wanted the Knightmare scene and the Death of Superman so while it's not all his fault that there was a 3 hr movie, you can't not blame him.

 

[idiot09]

Wasn't Snyder's name on the script also at the start of pre production? He and Goyer came up with the overall story too and we know that it was Snyder's who wanted the Knightmare scene and the Death of Superman so while it's not all his fault that there was a 3 hr movie, you can't not blame him.

I am sure he had some input of where the story would go.But to blame it one Snyder that the film is 3hr long is not fair,since it was Terrio and Goyer who were credited for the script,and with all that is happening its kind of justified.Think about it,he was basically asked by the studio to :

-Continue Superman's arc from MOS
-Introduce a new Batman
-Introduce the villain Lex Luthor
-Set up the whole BvS aspect
-Introduce Diana/WW
-Have JL cameos
-Have a villain,so that we can have the trinity in ACTION

Considering all that,the script had to be pretty long.Its not right to blame Snyder for it.

 

[matt47]

I am sure he had some input of where the story would go.But to blame it one Snyder that the film is 3hr long is not fair,since it was Terrio and Goyer who were credited for the script,and with all that is happening its kind of justified.Think about it,he was basically asked by the studio to :

-Continue Superman's arc from MOS
-Introduce a new Batman
-Introduce the villain Lex Luthor
-Set up the whole BvS aspect
-Introduce Diana/WW
-Have JL cameos
-Have a villain,so that we can have the trinity in ACTION

Considering all that,the script had to be pretty long.Its not right to blame Snyder for it.

How do we know the studio wanted Lex? Anyway, even if they did, he didn't need to be such a dominate character in this movie.

 

[idiot09]

How do we know the studio wanted Lex? Anyway, even if they did, he didn't need to be such a dominate character in this movie.

Well you need a villain right?That will pull the strings in the background to instigate the fight?Also a very imp part of Lex was to put a very negative public opinion of Superman,which leads to Clark's development in this film.You can disagree with this ofcourse.But can you really disagree with the fact that he really had a lot to do in this time period?Even if you dont count Lex,there is still a LOT to do.

 

[chintai80]

Well you need a villain right?That will pull the strings in the background to instigate the fight?Also a very imp part of Lex was to put a very negative public opinion of Superman,which leads to Clark's development in this film.You can disagree with this ofcourse.But can you really disagree with the fact that he really had a lot to do in this time period?Even if you dont count Lex,there is still a LOT to do.

the movie definitely was spinning multiple plates at once.
this is probably why it needed a 3 hour cut!
and that's why the theatrical cut probably suffered -- trying to do too much with too little time.

 

[idiot09]

the movie definitely was spinning multiple plates at once.
this is probably why it needed a 3 hour cut!
and that's why the theatrical cut probably suffered -- trying to do too much with too little time.

Agreed.

and what do you think,considering its true that the UC is lot more coherent and smooth,would this vindicate Snyder of the blame that he is not a good storyteller?Would you be more confident about the Justice League?

 

[Nemeres]

I'm not blaming Superman, I'm blaming the writers for writing Superman like an aimless high schooler.

Same. It's hard not to consider alternatives to what is given, when those come up as immediate questions.

 

[Kanye West]

The Superman montage is top 5 scene out of all comic book movies

 

[The Batman]

Also I would like to state this,its not Snyder's fault that the script was 3hrs long.The script was written by Terrio and Goyer.Snyder was just the director.So lets not say "yeah but he cant take 3hrs to tell a coherent story".

....Snyder "was just the director"?

You understand that the director is usually the main creative force behind a movie, right? Story, editing, costumes, cinematography, etc. Ultimately filter through him. He helped co write the story. The Russo's cut down Civil War to an acceptable screentime...before they started filming. The Dark Knight Rises script was allegedly massive before Nolan cut it down. So yeah, Snyder can take the blame for making a three hour film in the first place, just as WB can take the blame for approving it.

I've never seen people conjure up so many excuses for a guy who consistently making polarizing product. It's never Snyder's fault for anything, ever, even when he's clearly the common denominator for the mediocre-to-negative reception to most of his films.

 

[idiot09]

....Snyder "was just the director"?

You understand that the director is usually the main creative force behind a movie, right? Story, editing, costumes, cinematography, etc. Ultimately filter through him. He helped co write the story. The Russo's cut down Civil War to an acceptable screentime...before they started filming. The Dark Knight Rises script was allegedly massive before Nolan cut it down. So yeah, Snyder can take the blame for making a three hour film in the first place, just as WB can take the blame for approving it.

Firstly,I dont know why people keep saying Snyder wrote the story...he didnt.He is not credited for it in the film,trailers interviews etc.From what we know,Snyder and Geoff Johns sat down and decided where the DCEU would go.Goyer wrote the initial draft of the script.Terrio came in to rewrite it.Then WB approved that script.Its a 3hr script which is very long,and they approved it.From whats been reported,Snyder was told to make this 3hr story,which the WB liked.However (and this has been confirmed by Snyder),WB decided to cut down and make it 2.5 hrs at the last minute and that was the theatrical cut we got.

The difference is for CA:CW and TDKR is that the directors are credited and worked on the script for those movies.From what we know,Snyder didnt.And lets not pretend that making 3hr movies is a bad thing.Many directors have made movies which are this long,and maybe even longer,and those are good/great movies.

 

[The Batman]

Firstly,I dont know why people keep saying Snyder wrote the story...he didnt.

1. Because we all know there's never been a time in Hollywood where someone contributed to a script without getting credit for it.

2. http://batman-news.com/2013/07/21/watch-this-batmansuperman-comic-con-announcement-video/

Snyder is co-writing the story with David S. Goyer, who will then pen the screenplay. Production is expected to begin in 2014, with an anticipated release date in Summer 2015.

 

[idiot09]

Its the same with other movies like Kingdom of Heaven,Blade Runner,Daredevil or Watchmen.You cant just hack 30 mins off a movie and think it wont make a difference.Isnt Ridley Scott a good director?Yes he is,yet for so many of his movies,his theatrical cuts dont work but directors cuts do.Thats what happens with studio interference.Think about it.Can you take a film like LOTR/Godfather 2 3 hrs cut,chop 30 mins off,and expect it wont make a difference?Ofcourse not.Does Snyder take some of the blame for being involved in it and maybe even having choosed which scenes get left out,POSSIBLY YES,Snyder can take the blame for that.Ofcourse he isnt the best director or something,but to blame him because the studio decided to chop off 30mins of a 3hr film and expected it to work,is not fair at all.

 

[idiot09]

1. Because we all know there's never been a time in Hollywood where someone contributed to a script without getting credit for it.

2. http://batman-news.com/2013/07/21/watch-this-batmansuperman-comic-con-announcement-video/

Okay lets forget the fact that that report was in 2014 much before Terrio came in to do a complete rewrite of the story.Forget that.

Help me understand this better.What's exactly your complaint ?

1.Snyder/Terrio shouldnt have made a 3hr movie?

2.You can cut 30mins off a 3 hr movie and it doesnt make a difference,and its Snyders fault that he couldnt do so?

Which exactly is your complaint?

 

[The Batman]

Okay lets forget the fact that that report was in 2014 much before Terrio came in to do a complete rewrite of the story.Forget that.

Where is this proof that Terrio did a complete re write of the story? And even if Terrio did a complete re write, he and Snyder still put themselves in a room and worked out the story together. In other words, acting like Snyder isn't in some way responsible for the 3 hr script is ridiculous. He is the main creative force behind the picture.

 

[idiot09]

Where is this proof that Terrio did a complete re write of the story? And even if Terrio did a complete re write, he and Snyder still put themselves in a room and worked out the story together. In other words, acting like Snyder isn't in some way responsible for the 3 hr script is ridiculous. He is the main creative force behind the picture.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/batman-superman-chris-terrio-write-666735

Ofcourse Snyder is responsible.But so are Goyer and Terrio.But Snyder always seems to be the fall guy.Infact it was Snyder and Geoff Johns who were the main creative force over where DCEU would go.

Also you didnt answer my question :

Help me understand this better.What's exactly your complaint ?

1.Snyder/Terrio shouldnt have made a 3hr movie?

2.You can cut 30mins off a 3 hr movie and it doesnt make a difference,and its Snyders fault that he couldnt do so?

 

[The Batman]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/batman-superman-chris-terrio-write-666735

Obviously Terrio was brought in for a new draft, but you're acting like Terrio did a page one rewrite.

Ofcourse Snyder is responsible.

Then why are you saying things like this to begin with:

Also I would like to state this,its not Snyder's fault that the script was 3hrs long.The script was written by Terrio and Goyer.Snyder was just the director.So lets not say "yeah but he cant take 3hrs to tell a coherent story".

 

[idiot09]

I should have phrased it better.Snyder was ofcourse involved,but the whole blame shouldnt go to him,as Terrio/Goyer were the main influence on the script.

I see once again you have avoided my question.