The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian Official Discussion Thread

[Hush]

That's strange, seeing as how Tolkien and Lewis were friends. I know Tolkien disliked how Lewis combined many forms of mythical creatures into it's world (hence him making the comment that Narnia was a "mismash of a world") but I've never read anywhere that he hated them.

They were friends, very dear friends for a long time but Tolkien was also very stubborn on certain things and one of those things was allegory and metaphors. He could not stand that and always wanted the story to stand by itself, which is kinda funny cause in many cases LOTR's has many parallels to World War I.

 

[BloodyWolverine]

Yeah The Mummy 3 has a good slot after everything big was released . Caspian was slapped in between Iron Mans reign and Indy 4 which should blow the door off the box office . I didn't expect like last years numbers for movies for i always considered the recession may play a part.
I think studios should have paid attention to Transformers 150million dollar movie and it did well. Maybe studios will consider lowering down budgets for films so its more easy to break even.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

I kinda hope they stop at the silver chair...and then maybe do the Magican's nephew. I really don't want to see A horse and his Boy or Last Battle turn into a movie. Last Battle is just do damn depressing to me

 

[Tag279]

What is depressing about the last battle? Not trying to argue or anything but I have not read it and I am unfamiliar with the title.

The books from what i remember about the ones I have read are darker and more brutal than the movies depict.

 

[Matt]

What is depressing about the last battle? Not trying to argue or anything but I have not read it and I am unfamiliar with the title.

The books from what i remember about the ones I have read are darker and more brutal than the movies depict.

Spoiler

turns out all the kids who are main characters throughout the series (save Susan who apparently has become a ****) die in a train derailment and go back to Narnia, which is heaven

 

[Matt]

I disagree with you here and its for two reasons. The first is the aforemention which is that this is not Lord of the Rings where the film-makers intentionally are changing the story to echo western-christian values, this is how the book is. Have you read the books? They're far from subtle, I mean if you have a problem with that then your entitled to that but it is unfair to blame the film-makers for that when its basically stated up front what this story is about. Secondly, it doesn't subtract from the story at all and if anything makes it more poignant. When Lucy asks Aslan why he hasn't come to save them like before, okay its obviously an illusion to God but on the same token if you knew nothing about God, it still makes perfect sense within the context of the story. I feel as if this is they type of complaint that you're justify to have but you really shouldn't expect the movies to be any different than they are since it comes with the territory.

Well, I haven't read the books, but does that really excuse the lack of subtlety from the film makers? I mean, we see adaptations every day that endure massive changes. Being a tad bit more subtle in your dialogue really wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[Hush]

Well Matt, you havent read the books and they are like many have said as blunt as Aslan's roar. I mean these movies are very toned down and to be honest this was a big part of the books, you know what your getting into when you see Narnia in the title so I would just expect that they won't be so overbearing but not completely devoid of there allegory. Caspian I hardly noticed it if you ask me I was really excited about the battles.

 

[Movies205]

Well, I haven't read the books, but does that really excuse the lack of subtlety from the film makers? I mean, we see adaptations every day that endure massive changes. Being a tad bit more subtle in your dialogue really wouldn't be the end of the world.

And you have stumbled on an age old question... Is it okay to change the source material to make it more entertaining/mainstream. I feel you can't have it both ways. That's like saying its okay that the film-makers wanted to change the ending to the Watchmen so it ends happy, it completely destroys the point of hte book. I mean what's wrong with being Pro-Christian? I had no problem with Golden Compass being Anti-Christian/Religious, as much as I don't have a problem with being Pro-Anything. As long as you can view the film sans the allegory, meaning is soap boxing or is it a story that simply uses the allegory, I feel chronicles of narnia is the latter, as compare to say something like "Lions for Lambs" which is the first (I actually quite enjoy it anyway though). I mean I feel as if you can't blame the film-makers for staying faithful to the book while making it more acceptable, they did there best and I approve of it.

Let me present to you Lord of the Rings: Two Towers. The King of Rohan was so drastically change but because it was changed to fit cinema convention its okay? I'm actually glad they had the balls to buck some cliche drivel. I mean beginning with Gandalf performing a highly CHRISTIAN act of an exorcism thus the many allusions to christianity stuffed needlessly into Lord of the Rings. THe fact that King Rohan is turned into they typical stock self-serving protagonist whose hubris almost leads to his downfall, while in the books he's a proud angelo-saxon King who proudly marches into battle with no argument with Gandalf nor does he spend a scene lamenting over his dead son, which was simply put in to conform to western civilization tastes. The reason I present all of this is to show you the opposite side of the coin which is that its always a travesty when film-makers change the tone of the book simply to make it more mainstream.

 

[Movies205]

Well Matt, you havent read the books and they are like many have said as blunt as Aslan's roar. I mean these movies are very toned down and to be honest this was a big part of the books, you know what your getting into when you see Narnia in the title so I would just expect that they won't be so overbearing but not completely devoid of there allegory. Caspian I hardly noticed it if you ask me I was really excited about the battles.

I'm probably going see it again tonight, very rarely do I ever feel like seeing a movie twice. Either the beginning really going drag or it goign be better... The second viewing is always a true test of a movie's actual quality.

 

[Matt]

Well Matt, you havent read the books and they are like many have said as blunt as Aslan's roar. I mean these movies are very toned down and to be honest this was a big part of the books, you know what your getting into when you see Narnia in the title so I would just expect that they won't be so overbearing but not completely devoid of there allegory. Caspian I hardly noticed it if you ask me I was really excited about the battles.

Okay, I'm sorry, but I have to call bull **** on that. There is no way you did not notice it. A six year old can notice it when Aslan says "Why didn't you have faith in me when others did not?" or Lucy says something like "Maybe he will only say us once we prove ourselves to him." Not to mention his little wave that looks exactly like the Judeo-Christian version of God. There is no way to not notice it.

And you have stumbled on an age old question... Is it okay to change the source material to make it more entertaining/mainstream. I feel you can't have it both ways. That's like saying its okay that the film-makers wanted to change the ending to the Watchmen so it ends happy, it completely destroys the point of hte book. I mean what's wrong with being Pro-Christian? I had no problem with Golden Compass being Anti-Christian/Religious, as much as I don't have a problem with being Pro-Anything. As long as you can view the film sans the allegory, meaning is soap boxing or is it a story that simply uses the allegory, I feel chronicles of narnia is the latter, as compare to say something like "Lions for Lambs" which is the first (I actually quite enjoy it anyway though). I mean I feel as if you can't blame the film-makers for staying faithful to the book while making it more acceptable, they did there best and I approve of it.

Let me present to you Lord of the Rings: Two Towers. The King of Rohan was so drastically change but because it was changed to fit cinema convention its okay? I'm actually glad they had the balls to buck some cliche drivel. I mean beginning with Gandalf performing a highly CHRISTIAN act of an exorcism thus the many allusions to christianity stuffed needlessly into Lord of the Rings. THe fact that King Rohan is turned into they typical stock self-serving protagonist whose hubris almost leads to his downfall, while in the books he's a proud angelo-saxon King who proudly marches into battle with no argument with Gandalf nor does he spend a scene lamenting over his dead son, which was simply put in to conform to western civilization tastes. The reason I present all of this is to show you the opposite side of the coin which is that its always a travesty when film-makers change the tone of the book simply to make it more mainstream.

I see your point Movies, and I am really in no position to argue film-making techniques with you, because as your signature shows, I am quite sure you would kick my ass in such a debate . Never the less, I'm not really asking it conforms or does away with the allegory. I actually enjoy a good allegory. I simply felt that when the writers shove it down your throat to the point they did, it becomes a distraction from the rest of the movie. I wish they would've taken a more subtle approach.

I'm probably going see it again tonight, very rarely do I ever feel like seeing a movie twice. Either the beginning really going drag or it goign be better... The second viewing is always a true test of a movie's actual quality.

I dunno about seeing it again. I saw Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe a second time on DVD and was supremely disappointed. While I did not hate it upon my first viewing, I didn't exactly like it either so I gave it a second chance...and despised it. I felt it to be horribly anticlimactic (the entire movie they are building up to this battle with the Witch, and the Lion's army is greatly out matched and you're expecting a massive, Helmsdeep-esque battle...and instead the Lions army wins in about 2 minutes. And I know, thats supposed to represent that evil cannot defeat the power of God, but still...from a consumer perspective, I wanted my eight bucks back if that was the best I got). And you're probably saying "Then why the hell did you see Prince Caspian?" To be honest, the trailer sold me. And while I did like it better than the first movie (and felt the action was definitely a step up), I feel that if I watch it again, the boring first hour which drags to no end will kill it for me.

 

[Hush]

Okay, I'm sorry, but I have to call bull **** on that. There is no way you did not notice it. A six year old can notice it when Aslan says "Why didn't you have faith in me when others did not?" or Lucy says something like "Maybe he will only say us once we prove ourselves to him." Not to mention his little wave that looks exactly like the Judeo-Christian version of God. There is no way to not notice it.

I didnt say I didnt notice it I just said I hardly noticed it because that wasnt my focus. What is wrong with a character saying "Why did you not have faith in me?". Is it a allegory? Yes, but is it so blatant that a six year old would notice? In my opinion, no. Many characters show themselves like this, if they are wise beyond the others I mean if you really looked through all the history of cinema you would find plenty of these situations that are far more blatant. Oh and no i have no examples but i do remember instances of this in my childhood where there were cases of that type of dialogue.

I just didnt see it the way you did Matt but to say that im full of **** is just rude man. I have read the books up to Dawn Treader, and i have to say that they are simply full of this stuff and the movies have toned it down severly. I'll give you "the wave" argument but over all i just thought that was cool. I see your point Matt dont get me wrong I just have a different perspective.

 

[chaseter]

Hooray for my post being mysteriously deleted.......

Anywhoha, some people in here need to realize these books and these movie series are made for younger children and teenagers. Being subtle with a kid does not work. With adult movies, a knife left in the background with blood on it can aid adults in making conclusions but a younger person may need dialogue to help make the connection.

As for the Christian connection...how many times in the Bible does God or Jesus say 'I am the light, I am the way, I am the truth, trust in me, etc...etc...?" to which this series is closely modeled after???

 

[javphonic]

can't wait 'til the next one,
Spoiler....






kinda sad that they all won't be in Narnia again

 

[Movies205]

Okay, I'm sorry, but I have to call bull **** on that. There is no way you did not notice it. A six year old can notice it when Aslan says "Why didn't you have faith in me when others did not?" or Lucy says something like "Maybe he will only say us once we prove ourselves to him." Not to mention his little wave that looks exactly like the Judeo-Christian version of God. There is no way to not notice it.



I see your point Movies, and I am really in no position to argue film-making techniques with you, because as your signature shows, I am quite sure you would kick my ass in such a debate . Never the less, I'm not really asking it conforms or does away with the allegory. I actually enjoy a good allegory. I simply felt that when the writers shove it down your throat to the point they did, it becomes a distraction from the rest of the movie. I wish they would've taken a more subtle approach.

I'm not disagreeing with its lack of subtly but that's the way the books are. C.S. Lewis is one of the most famous Christian writers of the last hundred years and at the very least at least its good.

I dunno about seeing it again. I saw Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe a second time on DVD and was supremely disappointed. While I did not hate it upon my first viewing, I didn't exactly like it either so I gave it a second chance...and despised it. I felt it to be horribly anticlimactic (the entire movie they are building up to this battle with the Witch, and the Lion's army is greatly out matched and you're expecting a massive, Helmsdeep-esque battle...and instead the Lions army wins in about 2 minutes. And I know, thats supposed to represent that evil cannot defeat the power of God, but still...from a consumer perspective, I wanted my eight bucks back if that was the best I got). And you're probably saying "Then why the hell did you see Prince Caspian?" To be honest, the trailer sold me. And while I did like it better than the first movie (and felt the action was definitely a step up), I feel that if I watch it again, the boring first hour which drags to no end will kill it for me.

The first hour was boring and at the same time sucked me in. I think the reason being that I'm so sick of highly cgi world, the fact that the kids are exploring around Narnia and there in an actual forest was really great. I also love the way the characters talk and interact, the thing that I like about this a lot better than LWW was that it sucked me into another world and it was fascinating. I'll admit LWW to me was all right but this I really liked. I will say I found the Christian allegories far more prevalent in this film than in LWW. Also I'm going because my little brother wants to see it and its tuesday so its only 6 bucks tonight

 

[Movies205]

can't wait 'til the next one,
Spoiler....




kinda sad that they all won't be in Narnia again

Next time use the spoiler tags

Spoiler

QUOTE My Post to see the tags and how they work

I personally remember as a kid hating the Dawn Voyager and that one about the stupid horse.... Magician Nephew for life is the one I personally liked the best.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Spoiler

turns out all the kids who are main characters throughout the series (save Susan who apparently has become a ****) die in a train derailment and go back to Narnia, which is heaven

In regards to your spoiler

Spoiler

I'd say that's going a little far. Susan wasn't a ****, she just decided to start acting like a "grown up" of our society. She was interested in fashion and men like any 20-something of her age would be. And we can only infer this from passing comments about her.

And in regards to your comments about the obvious Aslan/god relationship, as I said before. It was never subtle in the books, why would you expect it to be in the movie? Little children catch the reference. I was in 4th grade when I first read the Narnia stories, and I understood that Aslan was supposed to be god/Jesus. Even a little child would get that after reading The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. The reference to Jesus's sacrifice was about as subtle as getting hit by a train.

I don't think Lewis ever wanted his books to be subtle, so why would you expect the movies to be?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Next time use the spoiler tags

Spoiler

QUOTE My Post to see the tags and how they work

I personally remember as a kid hating the Dawn Voyager and that one about the stupid horse.... Magician Nephew for life is the one I personally liked the best.

I actually liked the Voyage of the Dawn Treader and the Horse and his boy. Magician's Nephew was my least favorite as a child. To each his own I suppose.

Though I did like the part when they were on the planet by the dying star and accidentally awakened one of the Witch's ancestors. On a side note, do you think they'll actually make every book, including Horse and Nephew?

I will say I found the Christian allegories far more prevalent in this film than in LWW. Also I'm going because my little brother wants to see it and its tuesday so its only 6 bucks tonight

You found them more prevalent? That's really surprising, because I always thought LWW had by far the most blunt allegory to Christ then any other book. I mean, Aslan sacrificing himself willingly, his torture and degradation before his execution, his death at the hands of his enemies, then rising and bringing salvation to Narnia.

I mean, it's hard to get any more obvious then that.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

I hope we get at least one more sequel

 

[Movies205]

I actually liked the Voyage of the Dawn Treader and the Horse and his boy. Magician's Nephew was my least favorite as a child. To each his own I suppose.

Though I did like the part when they were on the planet by the dying star and accidentally awakened one of the Witch's ancestors. On a side note, do you think they'll actually make every book, including Horse and Nephew?



You found them more prevalent? That's really surprising, because I always thought LWW had by far the most blunt allegory to Christ then any other book. I mean, Aslan sacrificing himself willingly, his torture and degradation before his execution, his death at the hands of his enemies, then rising and bringing salvation to Narnia.

I mean, it's hard to get any more obvious then that.

More in the dialouge I mean... But then again it might be that I went to two different catholic schools as a kid so I had to read the book twice and we went over it both times so I know that book in and out when it comes to the christian allegories...

 

[Marx]

I didn't like Narnia that much. It was well made, but the story just didn't do anything for me.

It seemed...underwhelming I guess. Maybe if the Christian allegory wasn't forcefed down the viewers throat the entire time, I would've liked it more. I mean, it gets to the point where it is like "OK! WE GET THAT ITS BASED ON CHRISTIANITY, ENOUGH IF E-****ING-NOUGH!"...It just annoyed me, and I'm a Christian. Maybe if I had read the books I would've liked it more. I dunno.

They built up to that final battle so much and yet it was very underwhelming and quick. The plot dragged at times.

I dunno, I can see why it was well made...but it still did absolutely nothing at all for me. It's probably not the movie, it's me.

I just saw Prince Caspian today, and I loved it. I thought it was done very well. (There are differences between the books and the movies, but that can be said for any adaptation.)

 

[EML]

Just saw it last night. Was way better than I expected it to be, but went a little overboard on the Christian mythology at the end. Why don't they just have Aslan wear a crown of thorns?

 

[Marx]

Just saw it last night. Was way better than I expected it to be, but went a little overboard on the Christian mythology at the end. Why don't they just have Aslan wear a crown of thorns?

It is a Christian-inspired story, what did you expect?

 

[Dr. Fate]

Just saw it. I thought it was pretty decent. Probably could have been shorter and maybe featured shorter battles, but overall it was a decent film viewing experience.

Anna Poppelwell (Susan) is very cute.

 

[EML]

It is a Christian-inspired story, what did you expect?

I know it's a Christian-inspired story. but the scene towards the end with Aslan and the younger girl was just ridiculous.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I know it's a Christian-inspired story. but the scene towards the end with Aslan and the younger girl was just ridiculous.

It was nowhere near as obvious an allegory in LWW, so I don't see why this would surprise you.