The Curious Case of Spider-Man & Hulk Rights (Or Keep Hope Alive That the Rights Will Revert)

[Fallen]

The fact that Sony's last good live action Spider-Man movie came out in 2004... FIFTEEN YEARS AGO!

Spidey and Supes are cursed.

 

[ADollarADay]

I literally loled at the 10B figure that some dude from wegotticovered made up.

Btw, Disney just received (or is about to receive) ~14B in cash + unload of 4B in debt + unload millions in OPEX cost due to the completion of the RSN sale. All that money should go towards paying down debt they inherited from FOX. Or the vast majority of it.

Which makes me think wth Universal must want for their distribution rights.

I don't envy Michael Paull. He's trying to get all the Marvel movies, or at least the MCU ones, at Disney+. I think ideally he'd want to buy those rights - or at least the streaming ones - but whoever owns can ask for astronomical prices. The licensees can even ask for high prices if Disney has to settle for licensing the movies (which would then cause the issue of the collection not being complete in the future).

Disney bought out Paramount's distribution deal for 115 million. Nowhere near 2 billion.

Macfarlane is pulling those numbers out of his butt, imo.

IIRC it was 115MM floor for Iron man 3 and/or Avengers distribution right. Just those two films (not sure if it was 115MM per film or for both), but it was 115MM or 8/9% of the gross whichever was greater. Without looking it up I want to say it was 115MM floor per film, so with the BO of both films I think Paramount got closer to $300MM for those.

They then bought the distribution rights for Iron man, Iron man 2, Cap 1, and Thor 1 from Paramount for an undisclosed amount.

 

[The forest gate]

I literally loled at the 10B figure that some dude from wegotticovered made up.

Btw, Disney just received (or is about to receive) ~14B in cash + unload of 4B in debt + unload millions in OPEX cost due to the completion of the RSN sale. All that money should go towards paying down debt they inherited from FOX. Or the vast majority of it.



I don't envy Michael Paull. He's trying to get all the Marvel movies, or at least the MCU ones, at Disney+. I think ideally he'd want to buy those rights - or at least the streaming ones - but whoever owns can ask for astronomical prices. The licensees can even ask for high prices if Disney has to settle for licensing the movies (which would then cause the issue of the collection not being complete in the future).



IIRC it was 115MM floor for Iron man 3 and/or Avengers distribution right. Just those two films (not sure if it was 115MM per film or for both), but it was 115MM or 8/9% of the gross whichever was greater. Without looking it up I want to say it was 115MM floor per film, so with the BO of both films I think Paramount got closer to $300MM for those.

They then bought the distribution rights for Iron man, Iron man 2, Cap 1, and Thor 1 from Paramount for an undisclosed amount.

And that was probably not close to a billion.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Meh, all we got to do is wait until one these big whales decide to buy Sony Pictures, and then the rights will revert back to Marvel for good. I can wait.

 

[sleekstereo]

Meh, all we got to do is wait until one these big whales decide to buy Sony Pictures, and then the rights will revert back to Marvel for good. I can wait.

What makes you think it will revert? The new studio wouldn't want to give up Spiderman.

 

[The forest gate]

What makes you think it will revert? The new studio wouldn't want to give up Spiderman.

It's widely thought they not transferable - Sony if it is sold can't take the rights with them.

 

[Tony Stark]

From Feigi's comments it's clear where this was going. They gave Sony a deal they couldn't refuse for the 5 picture deal. It was clear that wasn't going to happen again. What's funny is that Sony was dead in the water before that deal and the eights might have reverted, but it wouldn't have been in time before the end of Downey and Evan's contracts. I will take that trade even if we have to wait a while. Sony pretty much screwed themselves and other than Bond they really have no other IP, as the MIB bomb this summer showed.

 

[wobbly]

It's widely thought they not transferable - Sony if it is sold can't take the rights with them.

Not sure where that's coming from tbh.

Afaik the details on the 2011 amended deal do state the rights are transferable.

 

[The forest gate]

Not sure where that's coming from tbh.

Afaik the details on the 2011 amended deal do state the rights are transferable.

Then the rights are never coming back unless they brought or swaped.

From Feigi's comments it's clear where this was going. They gave Sony a deal they couldn't refuse for the 5 picture deal. It was clear that wasn't going to happen again. What's funny is that Sony was dead in the water before that deal and the eights might have reverted, but it wouldn't have been in time before the end of Downey and Evan's contracts. I will take that trade even if we have to wait a while. Sony pretty much screwed themselves and other than Bond they really have no other IP, as the MIB bomb this summer showed.

That wouldn't fit in with the cliffhanger and slow move to Spiderman as the figurehead.

 

[Fallen]

From Feigi's comments it's clear where this was going. They gave Sony a deal they couldn't refuse for the 5 picture deal. It was clear that wasn't going to happen again. What's funny is that Sony was dead in the water before that deal and the eights might have reverted, but it wouldn't have been in time before the end of Downey and Evan's contracts. I will take that trade even if we have to wait a while. Sony pretty much screwed themselves and other than Bond they really have no other IP, as the MIB bomb this summer showed.

Imagine the mess if Jumanji 3 flops/underperform.

 

[wobbly]

A swap might be something worth considering. Disney picked up some stuff from Fox that ain't really in their usual model. Aliens, Predator etc.

 

[Silver Surfer]

What makes you think it will revert? The new studio wouldn't want to give up Spiderman.

Forbes in an article last week confirmed that the rights revert in the event that Sony Pictures is sold.

 

[The forest gate]

Awkward as hell

 

[Webfoot Hero]

A swap might be something worth considering. Disney picked up some stuff from Fox that ain't really in their usual model. Aliens, Predator etc.

If Sony was interested, then maybe. But considering those properties aren't the hot commodities they once were and haven't made a lot of money, they probably aren't interested since Spider-Man (even at his worst) is a guarantee that they'll at least break even.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Awkward as hell

He's being put in the unenviable position of speaking about a corporate battle that he likely wanted no part of. From that video, you get the sense that both Chris Pratt and Julia Louis-Dreyfus just want to hug him to make him feel better.

 

[wobbly]

If Sony was interested, then maybe. But considering those properties aren't the hot commodities they once were and haven't made a lot of money, they probably aren't interested since Spider-Man (even at his worst) is a guarantee that they'll at least break even.

Yeah, I had a look at the franchise's they picked up. Nothing stands out as the kind of cash cow Sony would want as a replacement.

 

[wobbly]

Forbes in an article last week confirmed that the rights revert in the event that Sony Pictures is sold.

Confirmed or speculated? The transferable thing can be seen in the actual contracts.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Confirmed or speculated? The transferable thing can be seen in the actual contracts.

Are the contracts public?

 

[wobbly]

Are the contracts public?

Wikileaks. Section 23 of the contract covers it and you can get it here:
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/07/...d Restated Spiderman Rights Agt9 EXECUTED.doc

 

[wobbly]

The relevant info:

23. ASSIGNMENT.
23.a. SPE’s Right to Assign. Subject to Section 23.b hereof, SPE shall be free to assign or license any or all of its rights hereunder, and/or to delegate any or all of its duties, obligations and liabilities, at any time and from time to time, to any person or entity, and upon such assignment, SPE shall be released and discharged of and from the delegated duties, obligations and liabilities if such assignment and/or delegation is to: (i) a person or entity into which SPE merges or is consolidated or (ii) a person or entity which acquires all or substantially all of SPE's business and assets and which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iii) a financially responsible entity which is controlled by, under common control with, or controls SPE which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iv) a “Major Studio” (i.e., and expressly defined as limited to: Warner Bros., Fox, Disney, Paramount, Universal, or Dreamworks) or United States television network, which assumes such obligations in writing. Any purported assignment by SPE in violation of this Section 23 shall be void ab initio.

23.b. Limitations. SPE may not assign this Agreement in its entirety except to (i) a person or entity into which SPE merges or is consolidated, or (ii) a person or entity which acquires all or substantially all of SPE's business and assets and which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iii) a person or entity which is controlled by, under common control with, or controls SPE, or (iv) a Major Studio which assumes such obligations in writing. SPE may not assign its right to produce any Production to, or enter into a co-production agreement with, any entity except (i) any of the entities described in Section 23.b(i) - (iv) hereof, or (ii) in connection a transaction which is, in substance, a financing transaction and pursuant to which SPE initially controls all United States distribution rights with respect to the applicable Production and either controls or has the right to obtain (e.g., through the exercise of one or more options) such United States distribution rights for the entire term of copyright. SPE may not assign its rights with respect to the ownership and control of the LP under Section 11 hereof except to any of the persons or entities described in Section 23.b(i), (ii) or (iii) hereof. Upon any assignment or delegation permitted under Section 23.b(i) - (iv) above, SPE shall be released and discharged of and from the delegated duties, obligations and liabilities.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

So basically they gotta pay 10 billion or bust? Lol

 

[wobbly]

So basically they gotta pay 10 billion or bust? Lol

Well, that is the old contract. There were amendments in 2011 but the transfer thing wasn't changed then. Its not inconceivable Disney would have sought to change that potentially problematic condition when the deal was amended again in 2015 to allow for the MCU Spidey, but nobody outside of Sony and Disney knows so that is all speculation.

For Disney, at least seeking that change should have been a no brainer imo. Sony was on the rocks and even now its still thought they will likely get bought out sooner or later. Disney won't be allowed to gobble up another studio and they sure wouldn't want someone like Comcast buying them. Hell, in theory Time Warner could, which would be rather bizarre. However, on the other side though Sony for sure would not like losing the provision that keeps their most valuable asset all part of the deal for a prospective buyer. Was there enough incentive in the deal for Marvel to get that change? I don't know, but I wouldn't bet on it.

So until we learn otherwise I would assume the original transferable deal is intact and that aint the way Disney are gonna get him back.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Never going to happen in a million years but give them Avatar lol

 

[Tony Stark]

You are reading that wrong. Read the Nike v Gardner clause. This contract just stipulates that is Sony is acquired that the contract may be transferred but Nike v Gardner the court exclusively ruled that contracts are not automatically transferred without first consent of the primary copywrite holder.

 

[Darkprime]

Well, that is the old contract. There were amendments in 2011 but the transfer thing wasn't changed then. Its not inconceivable Disney would have sought to change that potentially problematic condition when the deal was amended again in 2015 to allow for the MCU Spidey, but nobody outside of Sony and Disney knows so that is all speculation.

For Disney, at least seeking that change should have been a no brainer imo. Sony was on the rocks and even now its still thought they will likely get bought out sooner or later. Disney won't be allowed to gobble up another studio and they sure wouldn't want someone like Comcast buying them. Hell, in theory Time Warner could, which would be rather bizarre. However, on the other side though Sony for sure would not like losing the provision that keeps their most valuable asset all part of the deal for a prospective buyer. Was there enough incentive in the deal for Marvel to get that change? I don't know, but I wouldn't bet on it.

So until we learn otherwise I would assume the original transferable deal is intact and that aint the way Disney are gonna get him back.

Yea Ive read and heard various sources claiming that Disney gave up the transferable rights in 2011 when they got the merchandise rights back but that wouldn't make sense. why would Disney give up one of the only ways to possibly get the rights back in the future?