Batman was dark before Frank Miller went onboard. You can thank Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams for that.
That's all well and good, but by the mid 80's this seems to have been forgotten.Miller reminded people, and did so on a much edgier,adult scale than O'Neil.
The Dark Knight Returns along with Tim Burton's Batman convinced ignorant bastards that he's not the campy 60's Adam West version or constantly said "Chum."
DKR did.Burton's film,however, was just as camp as the 60's show,only dolled up in black leather and gothic architecture.Total crap.
And again, you're giving the Dark Knight Returns way too much credit. It took more than that. It also took Maus and especially the Watchmen to change how many people viewed the comic book industry. The Watchmen did way more than the Dark Knight Returns.
Watchmen is the greatest comic ever written.Period.That said, it didn't get nearly as much coverage as DKR back in '86.Two reasons for this:1)DKR came out first and used a Prestige format book binding that had never been used in American comics 2)Batman was an iconic character that the world recognized-as opposed to the characters in Watchmen. If you are going to attempt to debate something, make sure you know your facts.
You completely misunderstand what I said. I liked how Batman and the Monster Men was a psuedo sequel to Batman: Year One and took off very shortly afterwards. They feel as if they are in the same world, but they are two different styles of writing. Wagner isn't aping Miller's style.
He's certainly aping Mazzuchelli's stle.The fact that he's dong a "pseudo sequel" alone is aping Miller's style.i'd be more impressed if he didn't try to do a sequel to Miller's work.The only person qualified to do a sequel to Miller's work is Miller.
He's using his own. Hence why Batman is going after more of a supervillainy type of character (Hugo Strange) than more realistic villains (such as the Roman and Catwoman).
That would only make sense, as after Year One , things escalate and costumed super villians are introduced.not terribly original.Just logical.
Also, Batman and the Monster Men did have a few instances of humor which Year One completely lacked (like when Alfred was astonished that Bruce was actually considering adding fins to the Batmobile). Same world, completely different reads.
Year One had plenty of humor.I don't expect someone like you to get it though.
You're so freaking delusional when it comes to your Miller fanboyism.
Au contraire.It's you that has no grasp of reality.
How old were you when DKR came out?
Again, it's just like Wagner, same world, different feel and read. You need to get this mindset that there are people who are superior to Miller when it comes to Batman.
I haven't come across any.And if there were, I'd know them.
However, one thing is certain when he works with Tim Sale, it's a sure thing that it is going to be great.
Negative.It's sure to be boring,cliche with moments of purely bad writing.
Batman: The Long Halloween, Batman: Dark Victory, Spider-Man: Blue, Daredevil: Yellow, and Hulk: Gray are masterpieces.
Only in your mind.
But Loeb is not a lazy person either, you're just saying that because you don't know what the hell you're talking about.He's heavily involved in the direction of the Marvel Universe. He's involved with the Heroes TV show. He's writing Onslaught Reborn, Ultimate Power, Wolverine, Ultimates 3, and Ultimate Wolverine. He's also rather busy too.
Learn to comprehend:I never said Loeb wasa lazy person.My statement had nothing to do with his output.I said he was a lazy writer- meaning that he writes the obvious,cliche ridden riding on the Miller bandwagon stories.
You want a lazy creator, look up Rob Liefield. That man is plagarism after plagarism. Or Joe Madureira who isn't even finished drawing with even a quarter of Ultimates 3 even though he's been on the damn book since 2005 and Ed McGuiness is rumored to have already finished Ultimates 4.
Granted, they both suck too.
The Dark Knight Returns is a good story. But it isn't the second comming that many people like yourself make it as. Most overrated comic ever.
Again, learn your history.When something has that much of a cultural impact, then it's moronic to say it's overrated.I bet you think Ali was overrated.Bruce Lee too.
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