The Defenders The Defenders General Discussion Thread

[metaphysician]

I didn't have a problem with Luke going to prison, the finale made it painfully obvious it wasn't going to last and gives a good starting point for his character in the Defenders. Even opens the door for Matt, Foggy, or Hogarth for continuing plot threads. To me the ending was more about Luke's views about the turmoil his actions caused, his willingness to work with the system to not be feared, and the hope that he can have lasting freedom without having to be on the run.

It also was a dramatic opportunity for them to show police who *aren't* some hostile inhuman enemy. Yeah, the US marshals are there to take him into custody, but unlike his prior encounters, they treat him civilly and without fear. In turn, he is able to interact with them like a person. It was an ambiguous ending, sure, but in a glass half full sense.

 

[Random490]

That's because they were drawing heavily on Alias. Luke is an important part of Jessica's story in a way that no two other characters compare.

Yeah, if you're doing a Jessica Jones show you gotta have Luke Cage in there even if it's just one season. He's a huge part of her story in the comics. What you don't want is an over saturation that makes the four of them teaming up seem like old news. The Defenders should be an event series, something that

It also was a dramatic opportunity for them to show police who *aren't* some hostile inhuman enemy. Yeah, the US marshals are there to take him into custody, but unlike his prior encounters, they treat him civilly and without fear. In turn, he is able to interact with them like a person. It was an ambiguous ending, sure, but in a glass half full sense.

Yeah, it was definitely a "cooler heads prevailing after chaos" type of thing. I like to think before the agents walked in they said "Okay, but cool and respectful because if he resists just remember he can break us in two"

 

[TheVileOne]

That's because they were drawing heavily on Alias. Luke is an important part of Jessica's story in a way that no two other characters compare.

He's an important part in Danny Randy's story too. Their history is often tied together. So yes, you can compare.

I mean I can point out that Misty Knight's origins are tied to Iron Fist and she made her debut in an Iron Fist story. Instead she was introduced in Luke Cage and made a romantic interest and sexual partner...

yet that meeting isn't going to happen in Iron Fist. It's happening in Defenders.

My point is this. That logic IMHO doesn't really fly based on how the Marvel Netflix shows do business.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, if you're doing a Jessica Jones show you gotta have Luke Cage in there even if it's just one season. He's a huge part of her story in the comics. What you don't want is an over saturation that makes the four of them teaming up seem like old news. The Defenders should be an event series, something that


Yeah, it was definitely a "cooler heads prevailing after chaos" type of thing. I like to think before the agents walked in they said "Okay, but cool and respectful because if he resists just remember he can break us in two"

To me it was the wrong note to go out on. It was still a major defeat with him going back to prison while Mariah and Shades were in charge.

 

[Mike Murdock]

He's an important part in Danny Randy's story too. Their history is often tied together. So yes, you can compare.

Not in remotely the same way. I thought about that before I suggested it. But Jessica's story is one of self-loathing and recovery and her relationship with Luke is absolutely part of it. Luke Cage went 47 issues without Danny Rand before they met up and the meetup, while well-handled, was clearly a forced event for the purposes of them meeting up. It didn't have anywhere near the same feel. Seriously, go read Power Man #48-50. You'll see what I'm talking about.

I mean I can point out that Misty Knight's origins are tied to Iron Fist and she made her debut in an Iron Fist story. Instead she was introduced in Luke Cage and made a romantic interest and sexual partner...

I think Misty is probably a better example, but I wouldn't go quite that far. Danny Rand's origin and opening stories are completely free of Misty Knight. Colleen Wing is a far more prominent character because of her father's connection to Iron Fist. Misty sort of shows up later (I think at the end of Marvel Premiere) and then develops into a relationship through the Iron Fist series when they're both searching for Colleen. Even then, she starts off as a character established in this world with a fairly rich backstory. In no way is it her origin.

My point being, it's fairly easy to adapt Luke Cage and Iron Fist's origins without involving the other or Iron Fist involving Misty Knight. I can't imagine adapting Alias without involving Luke Cage.

 

[TheVileOne]

To me you can't say that Luke Cage has to appear in Jessica Jones because their stories are tied so closely together and then make excuses for why you don't have to do it other ways.

Jessica Jones' origin story is really free of Luke Cage too as well. They could've done that first season without Luke Cage with some easy fixes.

 

[Mike Murdock]

It's not an excuse, I just think it's an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's not an excuse, I just think it's an apples and oranges comparison.

It sounds more like a logical twist than an apples and oranges comparison. The show introduced Luke Cage to the MCU and had the first meeting of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. I don't think having a short cameo by Matt Murdock in Luke Cage would've spoiled the Defenders brand.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think it would either, but I also thought Luke Cage had a thematically appropriate end for its season - it was Luke no longer running from his past. I think having Matt show up would have undercut that. I was just addressing whether any of the other characters are as essential to each other as Luke Cage in an Alias adaptation and I don't think they are.

 

[TheVileOne]

I would say him no longer running from his past is staying in Harlem to confront his his past sort of did that. He goes to the police and proves his innocence of murder. He was wrongfully convicted the first time.

I just don't see how him going back to prison makes him grow as a character. He wasn't guilty of any crime. He was forced to take part in barbaric illegal street fights and treated like someone who was less than human.

 

[sabetoonth]

Actually, he is guilty of escaping prison. Innocent of murder or not. Escaping it escaping. Pretty sure it adds five years to your sentence.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I doubt it adds a specific number to the sentence, but, yeah, escape is a crime. There are also other things he could be charged with he might have a defense to at trial (such as assault and destruction of property).

 

[sabetoonth]

It can very but I think on average they add like five years? Depends on the original crime and the conditions of escape.

 

[Mike Murdock]

It's a matter of state law. Georgia law punishes escape from prison after having been convicted of a felony by a range of one year to five years. It doesn't have to be five, but it can't be more than five.

 

[sabetoonth]

By the time Defenders is release maybe he'll have served just a year for his escape. Would be an easy way for that to not clog up the plot with getting him out of prison by maybe his first scene getting out.

 

[pixen]

I think all of the shows are ending on a specific point for the reason of hooking up in the Defenders. Elektra a dead, Hand will resurrect her. Jessica Jones is a little more friendly about actually doing what she's good at Luke Cage is in prison and before that he was spending a whole lot of time with Claire Temple who also knows of a certain lawyer who could help him out. Everything is ending where it needs to end for The Defenders. I don't think a year will pass and he'll just be let out. I think Matt will be the one getting him out just as stuff with The Hand is about to get unleashed and then you'll have a reason for them to get together. Or something along those lines.

 

[Random490]

It's a matter of state law. Georgia law punishes escape from prison after having been convicted of a felony by a range of one year to five years. It doesn't have to be five, but it can't be more than five.

They can argue mitigating circumstances, he was force to fight in an illegal fighting ring and then almost killed trying to expose it, when he was experimented on with an illegal and unregulated procedure, without his consent. He could argue that his escape was not to flee punishment but to protect his own life. Plus since they have the folder that proves the innocence of his original conviction, Luke could plead guilty to escaping prison and the Judge sentence him to time served and give him credit for years of false imprisonment.

That along with the NYPD seemingly forgiving his charges and a neighborhood full of character witnesses he has a strong case.

 

[TheVileOne]

Actually, he is guilty of escaping prison. Innocent of murder or not. Escaping it escaping. Pretty sure it adds five years to your sentence.

It's not legal to be illegally experimented on or forced to fight in illegal underground fight rings. Even in prison.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I think all of the shows are ending on a specific point for the reason of hooking up in the Defenders. Elektra a dead, Hand will resurrect her. Jessica Jones is a little more friendly about actually doing what she's good at Luke Cage is in prison and before that he was spending a whole lot of time with Claire Temple who also knows of a certain lawyer who could help him out. Everything is ending where it needs to end for The Defenders. I don't think a year will pass and he'll just be let out. I think Matt will be the one getting him out just as stuff with The Hand is about to get unleashed and then you'll have a reason for them to get together. Or something along those lines.

At the end of season one of Luke Cage, Fish found a document at Pop's that could set Luke free and maybe

Spoiler

he gives it to Claire, who then gives it to Matt.

 

[sabetoonth]

It's not legal to be illegally experimented on or forced to fight in illegal underground fight rings. Even in prison.

I never said it was. But escaping prison is still escaping prison is the point. Whole new crime.

 

[chamber-music]

Any sentence for escaping prison would probably be commuted I would imagine. If Cage can prove he was wrongly convicted with those files then his previous jail time might be taking into account for his sentencing. I'm not sure a state prosecutor would even want to bring a case against Cage anyway given his wrongful conviction and abusive prison stay in Seagate. Rackham even attempted to murder him.

Cage could sue for what was done to him at Seagate. Cage would be a star witness in a case against all the illegal activity and corruption going on at the prison.

 

[TheVileOne]

Matt Murdock should basically point all that out, and Cage should get a full pardon just so they don't try to bring the hammer down on Seagate.

 

[Random490]

Matt Murdock should basically point all that out, and Cage should get a full pardon just so they don't try to bring the hammer down on Seagate.

Yeah the powers behind Seagate probably would want to get it out of the headlines and prevent anyone from deciding to dig deeper.

 

[metaphysician]

Assuming whoever was behind Seagate hasn't already burned those bridges and shredded the evidence. Which would still leave the Alabama governor going "So, do I really want to imprison the superhero with good PR who has grounds to sue my state big time?"

 

[TheVileOne]

I forget, do Luke and Claire still have Reva's flash drive or did they get rid of it?