The Defenders The Defenders General Discussion Thread

[SlamAdams]

Yea, this whole inability to give up the notion that this version of the Defenders will be a street-level team and not the Defenders portrayed in the comics is starting to look simply like obstinate refusal in the face of every fact we've been given about the Netflix/Marvel project(s).

I completely underestimated the response to the street level heroes using the name. I just figured it sounded better than Heroes for Hire.

 

[Shoppy]

I think the whole question of what to do with Doctor Strange without the other three classic Defenders (Hulk's with the Avengers, SilverSurfer's rights are with Fox, and Namor's are "complicated") may have impacted on the use of the name for the Netflix team-up.

Okay, so we can't do the classic Defenders line-up, What other teams has Strange been in?
New Avengers!
But we don't have Spidey or Wolverine, ... and Cap, Iron Man and Clint Barton (Hawkeye) are already in an Avengers team.
So who does that leave?
Spiderwoman, who is actually the Skrull veranke
Sentry, who appears out of nowhere having been forgotten for years
Echo/Ronin who has a lot of story connections with Daredevil, but he declined to join the New Avengers.
and Luke Cage, who becomes a bigger player in the Marvel Universe from this point onwards along with his missus Jessica Jones and his partner Iron Fist, who later ends up in the new Defenders team.

So out of that lot, Sentry is a virtual unknown to the casual audience and Spider-woman, even though not in her comic backstory, is still assumed by many to be associated with Spider-Man (I blame the old cartoon)...

...that leaves a New Avengers team of Strange, Luke Cage and Echo with a supporting cast of Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Daredevil.

But wait a minute, what's happened there is Strange has been left stranded with a load of street level heroes who are more suited to TV when being of a higher power level, he's more suited to the big screen.

So what to do then? Find space for Strange in a new team of big screen Avengers that also includes some of the second wave of Avengers from the 60s/70s , after all, he's been on the roster at times in the past few years, and the MCU is a mash-up of classic and contemporary storylines. (at some point I think we may see Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Ant-Man, Wasp and Black Panther as an active Avengers team in the MCU )

So that's Strange sorted, but then what to do with the rest of the new Avengers?

Who didn't we rule out then?
Luke Cage with his supporting cast of Jessica Jones and Iron Fist, and maybe Echo if Daredevil can be worked into the story.
...and we can't call them "New Avengers" because the new "Avengers" are going to be "New" Avengers.
Well there's "Heroes For Hire" ..... or ..... What about "Defenders" seeing as the classic line-up's not an option and Strange is bound for the big screen. Besides which Luke Cage and Daredevil were both recurring members in the 70s and Iron Fist is on the current roster.

...... and that is how I think we could have got from the question of what to do with Doctor Strange, to a point where two TV series ideas (Daredevil and Jessica Jones) have been seen to be part of a wider potential story that combines elements of "New Avengers" and the Cage/Jones relationship with a more "Heroes For Hire" style team under the "Defenders" banner.

I'm thinking maybe a team in the miniseries of something like Power Man & Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Misty Knight and Colleen Wing, Daredevil, Echo (who i'm betting will appear in Daredevil even if Elektra doesn't pop up until his second series) and Shang Chi.

( Then after a second wave of series' I'm wishing really hard for a "Shadowland" miniseries where Murdoch goes off the rails )

Thoughts?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I completely underestimated the response to the street level heroes using the name. I just figured it sounded better than Heroes for Hire.

That's pretty much what it is. And the Defenders does sound better than heroes for hire too. The heroes for hire could still exist, but the concept of rag tag group of street level level heroes that fight for the little people works better than a group of heroes who'll save the day for a price.
There's nothing wrong with being a fan of the original defenders, but theres a good chance that what we get on screen will not be that or of that neighborhood. as for Dr. Strange I feel like he could be involved in A3 but after that I see marvel leading him into a midnight sons and supernatural styled movies.

 

[fixxxer]

^ Completely agreed.

I think I've said this before, (as have some Marvel folks involved in the Netflix shows) but the Defenders is essentially an echo (forgive the pun) of the Avengers on the small screen. Basically super-powered individuals and/or vigilantes coming together to take on a threat that they cannot deal with individually. Heroes For Hire, while it would involve the same members (other than Daredevil) would come at the concept from an organizational/institutional stand point. Think cop shows, law firm shows, hospital shows, private investigator shows, and so on.

As for Dr. Strange, Feige has implied on multiple occasions that he would like to use Dr. Strange as a kind of cornerstone to explore Marvel's supernatural world... um, universe. I think it would make the most sense to introduce characters like Blade, Ghost Rider, etc. that deal with the supernatural and build them up to join Dr. Strange in a Midnight Sons event movie. Characters like Werewolf By Night, Morbius (Sony might have his rights though) are never going to be on the cards as solo characters. However, they could be integral and extremely interesting as part of a supernatural team-up movie.

My ideas to build up each of these corners of the Marvel universe would be as follows:

Avengers concept in space --> Guardians Of The Galaxy
Guardians sequels and possibly spin-offs... looking at you, Mr. Rider. Considering the unmitigated success of GOTG, I'm thinking plans involving Marvel's cosmic side are well and truly in motion.

Avengers as street-level heroes --> Defenders
* Netflix wave 2 - Daredevil (season 2), Heroes For Hire (Cage, Jones, Rand), Punisher, Moon Knight, Defenders 2
* Netflix wave 3 - Daredevil (season 3), Heroes For Hire (season 2), Punisher (season 2), Defenders 3

Avengers concept as applied to the supernatural --> Midnight Sons
* Dr. Strange (already in pre-production)
* Dr. Strange 2 which would include cameos for Moon Knight (transferred over from Netflix), Werewolf By Night and whoever the hell else
* Blade/Ghost Rider team-up
* Midnight Sons (Dr. Strange, Blade, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight, Werewolf By Night, Hannibal King... I mean, the list goes on)

Note that it isn't like I'm shoving all of them off to four different corners never to meet again. It's a big, interconnected (Marvel Cinematic) Universe, and characters could pop in and out of each others' movies and franchises as required... you know, as is the case now.

 

[Six]

I wonder, now that Civil War is heavily rumoured to be happening, will the Defenders be involved somehow? I could see the events of the future movies having a big impact on them.

 

[BatsDC]

Doubt it, Defenders will debut after Cap 3

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

If anything I would bet the Defenders will show up in A:IW part one or two as the guys handling stuff on the street. I doubt they will get much screen time but as I have said numerous times Thanos is an all hands on deck bad guy and I could see these guys fighting in the background, more of a nod to us fans who follow all the MCU stuff. Maybe Cap gives Cage an order or something like that.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

Will there be more than 4 Defenders? Like will Misty Knight or Shang-Chi etc etc show up in the team up as well.


Really hate the name shouldve saved The Defenders for Strange/Hulk/Hawkeye in Phase IV

 

[kosh33]

it will also have a changing roster, if the series continues

 

[fangz]

^ Completely agreed.

I think I've said this before, (as have some Marvel folks involved in the Netflix shows) but the Defenders is essentially an echo (forgive the pun) of the Avengers on the small screen. Basically super-powered individuals and/or vigilantes coming together to take on a threat that they cannot deal with individually. Heroes For Hire, while it would involve the same members (other than Daredevil) would come at the concept from an organizational/institutional stand point. Think cop shows, law firm shows, hospital shows, private investigator shows, and so on.

As for Dr. Strange, Feige has implied on multiple occasions that he would like to use Dr. Strange as a kind of cornerstone to explore Marvel's supernatural world... um, universe. I think it would make the most sense to introduce characters like Blade, Ghost Rider, etc. that deal with the supernatural and build them up to join Dr. Strange in a Midnight Sons event movie. Characters like Werewolf By Night, Morbius (Sony might have his rights though) are never going to be on the cards as solo characters. However, they could be integral and extremely interesting as part of a supernatural team-up movie.

My ideas to build up each of these corners of the Marvel universe would be as follows:

Avengers concept in space --> Guardians Of The Galaxy
Guardians sequels and possibly spin-offs... looking at you, Mr. Rider. Considering the unmitigated success of GOTG, I'm thinking plans involving Marvel's cosmic side are well and truly in motion.

Avengers as street-level heroes --> Defenders
* Netflix wave 2 - Daredevil (season 2), Heroes For Hire (Cage, Jones, Rand), Punisher, Moon Knight, Defenders 2
* Netflix wave 3 - Daredevil (season 3), Heroes For Hire (season 2), Punisher (season 2), Defenders 3

Avengers concept as applied to the supernatural --> Midnight Sons
* Dr. Strange (already in pre-production)
* Dr. Strange 2 which would include cameos for Moon Knight (transferred over from Netflix), Werewolf By Night and whoever the hell else
* Blade/Ghost Rider team-up
* Midnight Sons (Dr. Strange, Blade, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight, Werewolf By Night, Hannibal King... I mean, the list goes on)

Note that it isn't like I'm shoving all of them off to four different corners never to meet again. It's a big, interconnected (Marvel Cinematic) Universe, and characters could pop in and out of each others' movies and franchises as required... you know, as is the case now.

i like that, and i like your thinking behind it. Defenders is something i was bummed out about at first too, like why do they gotta name it that?

but then i started to realize that the Mighty Avengers run the last year and a half or so, it's pretty much a closet Defenders book.

and that started out street level, and just started morphing. and one of their first enemies was Shuma Gorath, and then especially when Blue Marvel started to take a bigger role and also when this mysterious new Ronin was revealed to be Blade. and I just realized, Marvel can just start working supernatural realm characters and change the lineup to gradually become Defenders if they want to.

I'd love to evolve into something like...
Luke Cage
Blade
Iron Fist
Ghost Rider
Daughters of the Dragon

like for TV.

and then for movies go up like...
Doctor Strange
Moon Knight
Adam Warlock
Pip
She-Hulk
Sif (instead of Valkyrie cuz of Jaime Alexander, haha)

or sub in people like Clea or Hellcat or even use Ant-Man and Hope as Wasp, or even Drax or Gamora.

kind of a catch all group but with a certain type of chemistry in mind, rather than matching up specific teams from the comics, and dealing with supernatural/interdimensional type threats on a big scale.

like take that lineup above and sub in Drax for She-Hulk... can u imagine Drax having a conversation with Moon Knight, hahahaha. that would just be great stuff. so there's a lot of possible MCU Defenders line ups even without Namor and Surfer and I'm thinking of the show, hopefully as just being like season 0 of it.

 

[4thWallBreaker]

I'm honestly just catching wind of all this Netflix news. I don't know where the hell I've been at.

I'm pretty disappointed that Defenders is going to be pretty much "Heroes for Hire", though I will say that Power Man, Iron Fist and Daredevil are Defenders, so... I mean, I didn't expect traditional Defenders in the first place (Dr. Strange, Namor, Silver Surfer and Hulk) with the budget and lack of licensing for two of those characters, but did expect Strange to make cameos and Wang (or Strange indirectly) sending magic-based Marvel heroes on missions or something. Tons of untapped magic-characters in Marvel they could've played with.

Like Clea, which could take off from Dr. Strange; Valkyrie, which could take from Thor; Hellstorm, which could be a nice intro for Ghost Rider emerging into the MCU, maybe; Hellcat, which could have a nice dynamic with Hellstrom. Maybe some others popping in, either making cameos or becoming honorary members, like Man-Thing, Devil-Slayer, Moon Knight (back in his werewolf hunting days), Blade and maybe Werewolf or Vampire by Night. Gargoyle is...neat. Heh.

But yea, I guess it's street level characters Daredevil, Power Man, Iron Fist and Jessica Drew. The latter possibly starting as a detective and strategist of the group, and then evolving into Jewel or Knightress or, more appropriately if things kick-off with her and Luke, Power Woman. Not sure who'd be leader. I could see it being Murdock. I mean, with his power he's a scout and a field strategist, as well as dealing with a the legal troubles they may face.

I'd love to eventually see Misty Knight and Colleen Wing. Maybe we'll get a flashback of Shang-Chi teaching Iron Fist, changing up his origins a bit?

Frank Castle would be super cool, but I don't know if they'd get along. Maybe not a Defender, but maybe they run into Punisher during a second season?

One of the White Tigers would be cool to see, as well Tarantula (Maria Vasquez).

I just want to keep mentioning people. At least cameos. Paladin or Silver Sable. Would love that. Wonder Man?

 

[Mike Murdock]

While I agree that the Defenders are not the same group in concept as the comics version, they don't seem like they're really be "Heroes for Hire + Daredevil." That had a specific Rockford Files-esque premise that doesn't seem to be present. The Defenders here, in addition to having a more altruistic-sounding name seem to actually have a more altruistic motivation.

Now this doesn't matter too much overall, but I suspect Heroes for Hire will either be in Luke Cage or, if they do a season 2, they might combine Luke Cage and Iron Fist into Heroes for Hire.

 

[Norek]

If we get one Netflix show a year (say, every May), so Jessica Jones will be in 2016, Luke Cage in 2017, Iron Fist in 2018... That means The Defenders will come out in 2019, around the time Infinity War Part 2 comes out, which is insane. I have the feeling all this will somehow play out, maybe the Defenders will indeed be shown on the big screen during the Infinity War or something, or the show will deal with the war itself.

 

[Avenger]

I really hope they don't do just one show per year. I'm far too impatient for that.

 

[4thWallBreaker]

I really hope they don't do just one show per year. I'm far too impatient for that.

Same. Though I believe I read that production for every series starts when the series before it ends. So... That could be slow. I honestly hope they start filming the next series at least during the previously series' showing. That way we get them back to back. But I don't know. I'm honestly unaware of how Netflix does episodes. Do they come out each week or is each season to their originals come out all at once?

 

[MadVillainy]

I think (hope) they're gonna do more than one series a year after Daredevil. I think Iron Fist and Luke Cage will debut in 2016 along with the other shows (I mean they could debut one a quarter) with The Defenders showing up in 2017

Or at least I hope that's what happens

 

[Mike Murdock]

I'm hoping for two a year, but one a year is certainly very plausible. They have to allocate the money for it along with the money for all their other shows. Drawing it out makes some sense.

 

[Moridin]

The New York filming deal was for 3 years wasn't it? I think we'll get 2 a year, or close to it, like one every 6-8 months.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't know the answer to how long the deal was for, but that's a good point as far as evidence goes. I would have to imagine they would be prudent enough to extend the deal long enough for anticipated filming of the Defenders (since there are no guarantees after that, but they can always negotiate for more).

 

[conan69]

Keeping it affordable, I think we'll see...

Luke Cage, Hellcat and a couple others.

 

[kosh33]

I think (hope) they're gonna do more than one series a year after Daredevil. I think Iron Fist and Luke Cage will debut in 2016 along with the other shows (I mean they could debut one a quarter) with The Defenders showing up in 2017

Or at least I hope that's what happens

It is going to be 2 per year, with Daredevil and Jessica Jones in 2015

 

[seahammer]

It is going to be 2 per year, with Daredevil and Jessica Jones in 2015

Yeah, just saw that news. That's good to have confirmed!

...

Sif (instead of Valkyrie cuz of Jaime Alexander, haha)

...

Just taking this one line out of your long post because I think that's a great idea! Jamie Alexander really seems to love playing Sif, and she'd be a great addition if the MCU version of the Defenders ever gets "bigger." Brilliant substitution that would further link the big and small screen parts of the MCU (unless Val is introduced in Thor: Ragnarok).

 

[Hypestyle]

For any Defenders mini-series or TV movies, I want to see some real super villains, not just gangsters. The action has to be amped up.

 

[MadVillainy]

It is going to be 2 per year, with Daredevil and Jessica Jones in 2015

Good too hear.

Looks like my 2017 prediction is looking more likely

 

[WBwins]

Just wanted to ask for clarity.

Is the Defenders set in present day MCU or the 70's MCU like Antman?