Comics The end of Brand New Day - The Official Thread

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ben_reilly_s_s

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Well, it's just about here.
After the very lackluster past few years (imo), Brand New Day is finally over.
I've been staying away from the teasers for this and most of Big Time, so hopefully I'll have some surprizes in store for me.
I'll be back in this thread on Thursday after I read the issue.
 
As far as I'm concerned, BND will never be over until Queada is sent out to pasture, the retcon is retconned back to normal, Peter and MJ are married again and everything in the Spiderverse is back to the way it should be.
 
As far as I'm concerned, BND will never be over until Quesada is sent out to pasture, the retcon is retconned back to normal, Peter and MJ are married again and everything in the Spiderverse is back to the way it should be.
Amen:bow:
 
As far as I'm concerned, BND will never be over until Queada is sent out to pasture, the retcon is retconned back to normal, Peter and MJ are married again and everything in the Spiderverse is back to the way it should be.
Don't hold your breathe. Quesada's holding his little grubby fat palms on the Spider-Man franchise for a little while longer.

I'm just personallly hoping for Carlie Cooper to die in the final issue. What a waste of character she's been.
 
Interesting. And here I'm hoping they kill off MJ! That would have been a much better way to end the marriage. And, you'd have the additional tragedy. I liked the majority of BND, although I thought this last arc was subpar. For the most part, though, I really liked BND. I'm hoping Big Time doesn't turn Pete into a Tony Stark wannabe.
 
Don't hold your breathe. Quesada's holding his little grubby fat palms on the Spider-Man franchise for a little while longer.

I'm just personallly hoping for Carlie Cooper to die in the final issue. What a waste of character she's been.
The trailer for Big Time says she's Peter's new girlfriend.
 
I don't understand how anyone would consider BND as over. It isn't as if the altered continuity (No marriage, the worldwide mind-wipe) is being changed. The format change of twice-monthly publishing changes nothing about the characters. And having Slott, one of the major architects of BND as main writer only solidifes this. And then we have more gimmickry like glow-in-the-dark costumes and such. More of the same cheez, delivered twice a month
 
I think the biggest thing when BND began is that it gave the angry fans something to lament about... hemce calling it BND... yes, Marvel is saying that BND is over, but the reality is that the status quo that started in BND (the marriage never happening) is still going on... the only changes coming forth are the fact that Peter will have a girlfriend and he's finally getting a "career"...

I'm going to dig Slott's writing though... :up:

:yay:
 
Hasn't he been calling her a girlfriend for a while now? I can imagine the only thing that changes is that Pete will be gettin some. And no more BC Booty calls, I guess!

Although, I don't agree with JustABill on CC, I do hope they try to make her her own character. the problem with MJ post-marriage is that she was mostly written as a one-trick pony: only there to support her man. That changed a little under JMS, but it was too little too late (for me, anyway)

I don't mind the occasional "misunderstanding because of Spider-Man" schtick, but I hope DS takes the opportunity to make Carlie an actual character. To have a function. Make her Young Jean DeWolffe. Something. But if all she's going to do is sit in the Coffee Bean and whine about Pete being late....pass.
 
At this point I don't even want her to get a chance to become an actual character. They had literally all the time in the world to do that with her, EVERYONE had character developments since BND started and Carlie is still sitting at point blank. Nothing that happened to her changed her in the slightest or put her in a new light.

Too little, too late in my book.
 
That's not entirely accurate, Clones. Under DeFalco MJ was a well-rounded character who had her own life and friends. Especially during the post-clone years where she was going back to school and had Anna living with them. I really wish they'd have kept on going with that structure. For me, The Final Chapter was the beginning of Spidey's downfall which experienced a brief arrest when JMS took over, and then resumed the plummet.
 
Well, I don't know if there's such a thing as accurate or inaccurate in these kind of discussions, just opinion.

I quit reading comics for short bit of time (about a year), right before Chapter One. So you might be talking about that period. I wasn't really enjoying anything I was buying, so I can't remember if that falls under the period that you're talking about. But I don't remember reading it at the time and saying to myself, "Man, this is how MJ should be written."

And to use JustABill as an example: How long did he give Carlie a chance to become interesting, a couple of years? I waited for 20 for them to do something interesting with Pete/MJ. In my opinion, they almost never did. I'm glad other people found it compelling. I didn't.
 
I'm glad other people found it compelling. I didn't.


Reading over that, I realize that sounds like sarcasm. It's really not. I think people should enjoy what they enjoy. I might not have liked it, but I never have understood why my disliking something should infringe on other people's enjoyment of it.


You can tell I'm suffering from post election mudslinging burnout...
 
If you stopped for a year prior to Chapter One, that would have been ASM late 420's to 441, which is when DeFalco was back on the book... I stopped reading around that same time frame, though I have the issues... I just haven't read them yet... :o
 
Yeah, I think Identity Crisis (?) happened during my comics sabbatical.
 
I am glad for the bi-monthy Amazing at least. And especially that we will have one writer on it. I think Slott is the man for the job.
 
According the hype, this issue is the “epilogue” to “Brand New Day,” which apparently means the end of the three-times-a-month, rotating creative team format as opposed to the status quo created by “One More Day.” Any way, much like the issue itself, here are my rather lengthy thoughts about issue #647 as a whole.

Basically, the entire issue, like issue #600 is comprised of several stories, the first one being by Fred Van Lente and Max Fiumara, which serves to make “Brand New Day” appear to come full circle. In this case, this is done by deliberately evoking imagery and situations from earlier issues. Once again, a party is being thrown for Harry, only instead of welcoming him home, it’s saying good-bye. Once again, Overdrive (the villain whose power is to magically “pimp out” cars) is the villain, but instead of getting away, Spidey manages to catch him. There are even panels which, with the exception of Fiumara’s quirky and hyper-stylized art, are virtual re-creations of panels from Swing Shift and issue #546. Certainly, the expectation here is for you to have been following “Brand New Day” from the beginning to get all the references and in-jokes. Also, Peter forced to don on a cheap Spider-Man Halloween costume to rescue the Paris Hilton-like socialite from Bob Gale’s Amazing Spider-Man Digital series from Overdrive (who at one point changes the socialite’s limo into the Spider-Mobile) does make for an amusing action-packed sequence.

Likewise, this theme of “coming full circle” also tied into another theme the story had: “irony.” This is especially the case with the various characters dressing up in costume for Harry’s party. Some, like Flash dressing up as Spidey driving the Spider-Moblie, and Peter as J. Jonah Jameson, and Harry, along with his newborn son Stanley (yes, that’s his name, get it?) dressed as Doc Ock were amusing and charming. Others like Carlie dressed as (and actually mistaken for) the Black Cat and Mary Jane dressed as Jackpot were just odd and trying just a bit too hard.

The story also sets-up three key developments for upcoming stories as well. The first being that Harry, in an effort to protect Stanley from Norman Osborn, has to go into hiding and thus says good-bye to “the gang,” at least for now. It’s certainly ironic, given the effort Marvel made to bring Harry back as a member of the supporting cast, to have him seemingly be written out yet again. Since Harry no longer wants anything to do with his father, has a second chance at being a dad, and--as he tells Peter in this story--he no longer blames Spider-Man as a source for his problems, all of the internal conflicts that used to make up his character have been resolved, so why should he stick around as a regular? However, if Zeb Wells and Michael Delmundo’s epilogue is anything to go by, not only does Marvel still have plans for Harry, but given the way he gets revenge on Vin Gonzales after the later makes not-too-subtle threats against his son, Harry may have wound up becoming more like his father than would care to admit.

And speaking of Vin Gonzales, this issue might as well have had him had a tattoo that read “future super villain” on his arm instead of the Green Goblin one he now sports. Him being cast as a disgraced cop being disliked by his former police officers and being Norman Osborn’s “main man” on the outside definitely sets him up to be either the new Hobgoblin or the new host for the Venom symbiote, which hopefully will take him past his current one-note status. At least he’s not nearly as bad or annoying a character as his sister, Michele.

The final development is Peter and Carlie officially becoming a couple, which while it was certainly something the various writers having been building up towards, it still comes across as being very contrived and forced. Try as Van Lente might, one doesn’t get the impression that Peter asked Carlie to be his girlfriend because he loves her, but because he felt pressured to do so instead. Granted, the idea that Peter is afraid to make his intentions clear due to his fear of Spider-Man getting the way is apparent enough, but Carlie still comes across like a needy, guilt-tripping hypocrite to the point where one has to ask, “Why would Peter even want to go out with a woman like her?” And having Mary Jane--the former Mrs. Spider-Man of all people--play matchmaker for them certainly doesn’t help promote the idea that Peter and Carlie make for an ideal couple, no matter how hard Marvel wants this to be the case. In fact, the scene in which MJ convinces Peter to ask Carlie out by reminding him that he's not responsible for the decisions other people choose to make and that he has a right to happiness actually reinforces the notion that she is the woman Peter still ought to be with.

The other stories in this issue are, like “Brand New Day” itself, are a hodgepodge of quality in terms of storytelling and art. Bob Gale and Karl Kesel’s “Stand Off,” for instance, is a well-drawn but utterly ridiculous story showing yet another chapter in Spidey and J. Jonah Jameson’s continuing feud, in this case over a newly passed ordinance that makes it felony for anyone not affiliated with a union to interfere or be involved with city operations. It certainly attempts to be a satire on bureaucracy, and an obvious one at that.

The I Kill Giants team of Joe Kelly and JM Ken Niimura also return for “Norah’s Last Night in NYC.” Under the premise of Spidey taking Norah for a “night on the town” in an effort to have her stay in New York, this is really Kelly’s love letter to his own contribution to Spider-Man--Norah Winters. How else to explain why he has Norah deliver the knock-out punch to a super-villain, or Spidey praise her by saying “New York needs the truth” and that “It’s a better city with [her] in it.” Granted, Norah, out of all the new characters “Brand New Day “ introduced, is the best realized with the most distinctive personality, but this is a bit much. Although it was a cute story with appropriately cute art.

Marc Guggenheim and Graham Nolan’s “American Hero” is also a love letter to a supporting cast member, this time Flash Thompson. As he did in issue #574, Guggenheim shows how Flash sees Spider-Man as a source of inspiration, but he also has the character take the opportunity to tell Spidey what inspiration actually means, nor does Spidey have to blame himself for the loss of Flash’s legs. While it’s primarily a dialogue between the two characters and pretty much filler, this, for me, was the best story out the issue.

The last story entitled “You Again?” written by Van Lente and Dan Slott, and penciled by Adam Archer, is basically Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead tale in which we learn what happened to Mia Flores--the girl whom Peter infamously macked on in the very first page of ASM #546. Apparently, she’s been trying to still get in touch with Peter in order to be part of Harry’s “entourage,” and the running gag, of course, is that this obscure character was actually more involved in the lives of Peter, his supporting cast, and villains than even they (and the readers) realized. Of course, the upside and the downside to this is the only way to really appreciate the gag is if one has been following Amazing Spider-Man since the start of “Brand New Day” up until now.

All in all, this feels more like a celebration of themselves and their own accomplishments rather than a celebration of Spider-Man and the shape of things to come. Too much self-congratulatory patting oneself on the back can easily be interpreted as being conceited and egotistical, and this is no different. And given the cyclical nature of comics, it seems a bit pre-mature to consider this period of Spider-Man’s history to be given such a milestone worthy send-off. Still, regardless of what you may think about “Brand New Day” as a whole, The brain trust/webheads certainly did a capable and demanding job of churning out 100+ issues within a three-year period, despite a rotating schedule, constant pressure, and possible delays. So, I guess that’s worthy of something.

http://stillanerd.livejournal.com/6435.html
 
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By the end of BND they also mean the end of the forced 70s status quo and trying to keep him there. The point of BND was to regress him back to his roots and keep him in the "Archie box" with no progression. Now he's allowed to have jobs outside of picture taking and won't be written like a complete rookie *****e. However this probably isn't enough to get me reading again since stuff like Kraven and Harry being alive again along with the Other powers being gone. Not to mention up to this day Ive absolutely hated Slott's Spider-Man and in my opinion he brings NOTHING to the table with this character.
 
By the end of BND they also mean the end of the forced 70s status quo and trying to keep him there. The point of BND was to regress him back to his roots and keep him in the "Archie box" with no progression. Now he's allowed to have jobs outside of picture taking and won't be written like a complete rookie *****e. However this probably isn't enough to get me reading again since stuff like Kraven and Harry being alive again along with the Other powers being gone. Not to mention up to this day Ive absolutely hated Slott's Spider-Man and in my opinion he brings NOTHING to the table with this character.

You can read??? :wow: :wow: :wow:

:cwink:
 
All in all, this feels more like a celebration of themselves and their own accomplishments rather than a celebration of Spider-Man and the shape of things to come. Too much self-congratulatory patting oneself on the back can easily be interpreted as being conceited and egotistical, and this is no different. And given the cyclical nature of comics, it seems a bit pre-mature to consider this period of Spider-Man’s history to be given such a milestone worthy send-off. Still, regardless of what you may think about “Brand New Day” as a whole, The brain trust/webheads certainly did a capable and demanding job of churning out 100+ issues within a three-year period, despite a rotating schedule, constant pressure, and possible delays. So, I guess that’s worthy of something.

I don't particularly "get" this paragraph... you point out in the first half on how the book "appears" to be a big celebration of the creative team members, which is bad, but then you claim that what they did was as a whole is something celebration worthy?

:huh: :huh: :huh:
 
I don't particularly "get" this paragraph... you point out in the first half on how the book "appears" to be a big celebration of the creative team members, which is bad, but then you claim that what they did was as a whole is something celebration worthy?

:huh: :huh: :huh:

Well, being able to churn out an almost weekly comic in spite of the threat of delays, scheduling conflicts, and pressure is hard, demanding work and the fact that Steve Wacker managed to pull it off is commendable. However, when it comes to actual product, that's something else.

In my opinion, while there was some good stories here and there over the course of Brand New Day, there was some very mediocre and very bad stories, too--just like any other period in Amazing Spider-Man's long history. Also, you can tell that the braintrust/webheads either believe or want the various changes they brought about to stick, and that they are convinced that this particular moment in Spider-Man's history is milestone worthy in and of itself because of their accomplishments, and that THIS, I believe, is the reason why they are symbolically patting themselves on the back in this issue. And if that's the case, it's a bit premature, because who knows within a few years time whether Spider-Man fan will look back on this period and consider this one of the greatest periods of Spider-Man ever, or wonder what the hell the big deal was. I hope that makes some sense. :yay:
 
The main thing this issue did was remind me how much I disliked BND. I can't believe they ran that over 100 issues. Certainly doesn't compare to the first 100 issues of Amazing.

I like you guys' ideas about Vin. Should be interesting to see how that goes.

Agree that the Carlie thing feels SO forced. I like Norah much better. I enjoyed her story and the Flash story (although the leg thing seems so forced, what with all of a sudden putting him back in the service). Also thought the last story with the girl who kissed Pete was cute.

Here is something I would like to bring up: Who the hell brings a new born infant to a party, puts him in a costume, and just straps him across his chest?

Anyway, good riddance to BND. I look forward to Big Time. Hope I'm not disappointed. Again.
 
I notice Marvel barely promises decent stories anymore. It's purely about gimmicks now. This is terrible. Brand New Day is ending, so... what was it, then? I read a few of 'em just to see a character I don't recognize. But 'Brand New Day' doesn't seem to be anything but a label. Just like the 'Heroic Age' isn't anything but a label.

A lot of these writers (all eight or so of them) would of been of been great with the old Peter. Hell, they could of even thought up a good way to just make it so Peter wasn't married. But how bad can it get.

Wow, three more variant covers next month. :csad:
 
I liked the issue despite Carlie and Peter hooking up. I almost threw the book across the room when I thought for a second they were writing out Norah, but all was good in the end.
 

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