Comics The end of Brand New Day - The Official Thread

[WolfCypher]

Big Time really feels more like BND season 3 than a whole new "status quo". Sure, Peter's getting a new job and a forced girlfriend, but the build up feels exactly like when BND dawned. I'll give BT a try though, just to see if BT feels any different.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Norah's "exit" story was seen before...
Billy Walters, who used to work at The Daily Bugle and with Peter was written out mostly the same way...
Also, the whole Dexter Bennett build-up was crap, from never remembering Pete's name, to all of a sudden knowing "seemingly" everything, that was a very wasted character they created. just like nearly everyone introduced in OMD/BND...

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Also, since when is Pete such a "coward" about askin a girl out?
He hasn't been that way since Gwen or even to an extant Betty...

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Also, since when is Pete such a "coward" about askin a girl out?
He hasn't been that way since Gwen or even to an extant Betty...

He's ask her out, a few times, they've even gone on dates. He was worried about commiting to another relationship after what had happened with MJ.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

But what about Felicia?
And MJ was over for a while and he was tryin to date a few girls...Carlie, Michelle(kinda), Lily(kinda)

 

[Hobgoblin]

But what about Felicia?
And MJ was over for a while and he was tryin to date a few girls...Carlie, Michelle(kinda), Lily(kinda)

Thats what I was wondering. Isnt Peter (as Spidey) still "dating" the Black Cat? He should know better than to date one woman as Spider-Man and another as Peter Parker.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

edit...

 

[:eek:]

Thats what I was wondering. Isnt Peter (as Spidey) still "dating" the Black Cat? He should know better than to date one woman as Spider-Man and another as Peter Parker.

Sounds exactly like what BND-Peter could do...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Now I know I may be one of the few, but I really enjoyed Brand new Day. It was fun for a while, IMO, even though I hated OMD.

However, I'm so excited for Big Time and I have a feeling it's really going to kick butt!

 

[Venom 1988]

After really enjoying The Grim Hunt, I hated OMIT and Origin of the Species was a big letdown. This end of BND issue did nothing for me and I didn't care for the art at times. Here's hoping Hobgoblin arc is good

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Thats what I was wondering. Isnt Peter (as Spidey) still "dating" the Black Cat? He should know better than to date one woman as Spider-Man and another as Peter Parker.

It's not be addressed specifically yet, but Black Cat told him that he houldn't be allowing their thing to stop him pursuing a more meaningful relationship. It's also been said that they haven't had sex since she sold his blood to Morbius.

She is in the first arc of Big Time so I expect it to be addressed there.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

anyone else feel the hammered it home with carlie at the end, she's gwen mkII, MJ has personally picked her and she shows up in the black cat out fit

all she's missing is an intern ship as JJJ's receptionist

it's just bad writing and poor form from marvel

though the harry story was superb, hopefully we still have a chance of a heroic goblin

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Harry's blood has the Goblin serum running through it, doesn't it?
So, Stanley should still be a bure-blood Goblin.
Also, where the hell did he go when he left MJ and Lily in Origin?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Harry's blood has the Goblin serum running through it, doesn't it?
So, Stanley should still be a pure-blood Goblin.
Also, where the hell did he go when he left MJ and Lily in Origin?

Thats what I thought. Also, since when is Peter an expert on Norman's DNA? How could he tell Stanley was Harry's son and not Norm's?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Sins Past have Peter taking some of Gwen DNA to match it with the DNA he took from Sarah, so that is good. The same didn't happen here with Harry?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Harry's blood has the Goblin serum running through it, doesn't it?
So, Stanley should still be a bure-blood Goblin.

That was my thought exactly.

 

[DACrowe]

People talking about MJ being a well-rounded character or not (a discussion bound to come up in a thread about BND). I will just say this.

One of the few comic shops in the area that I've gone to off/on for about 10+ years is going out of business. So they're selling the non-important back issues on the extreme cheap. So, on a whim I bought a dozen of "The Amazing Spider-Girl" comics for under $15....



Damn! Now, I'm kicking myself for not having gotten more issues of it. To those who said the Spider-Marriage couldn't work....DeFalco (the man who breathed personality into MJ in the '80s) made this family dynamic of the four Parkers hugely entertaining and enjoyable. MJ, Peter and May are wonderfully well rounded characters. I am bitter with myself for never having read it before.

Anyway...my point was that when a writer cared about normal human interaction, it could work. And considering the whole of Spider-Girl had over 130 issues or so....that is not bad. In fact what Quesada claimed to be doing with BND, DeFalco was writing on a monthly basis for years, only with Peter's daughter instead of Peter. I am now going to have to track down some TPBs of this. And unsurprising this wonderful book was canceled. Partially because of idiots like me who didn't buy it when it was out. And partially I am sure so Quesada and Marvel could erase all traces of the Spider-Marriage.

Too bad, it had been years since I read a good Spidey story arc. There were a few good one shots during BIB, but I have to go back to pre-The Other to remember enjoying a multi-issue storyline. Great stuff.

 

[Dragon]

Personally, i think the main reason Spider-Girl failed is the same reason Ben Reilly failed and the same reason BND has struggled. Because for the most part, Spider-Man fans want to follow Peter Parker, the guy bitten by the radioactive spider in Amazing Fantasy. Following his "daughter" his Clone or a retconned revamp of him seems hollow. It's difficult to connect to any of those versions emotionally.

And MJ wasn't a well-rounded character. She was an appendage. She had no life of her own aside from being Peter's wife. No friends, no pursuits, just a shallow meaningless career. Her only addition to the stories was window dressing and potnetial hostage. For a superhero relationship to remain relevant there has to be more.

 

[DACrowe]

I could name a number of stories where that is not true (the marriage issue--obviously--Kraven's Last Hunt, Death of Harry Osborn, Maximum Carnage, DeMatthis's run on Peter Parker Spider-Man, etc.) But for the most part you're right. Even the good years JMS had (the ones with JRjr, his work crashes as soon as Romita left) that had a very great reunion for PEter and MJ was followed by her being put on the sideline...

But my point was that had more to do with the writers than it did with the character. DeFalco wrote her great in the '80s. And lo and behold, she is written like a great well rounded character in Amazing Spider-Girl! ... which was my point. She, Peter and Mayday (as well as Benjy, I guess for a toddler's standards) were all well written. Some of the clichés he used for high school life were cheesy, but the core dynamic worked great.

And I agree with you that is why Ben Reilly, Spider-Girl, and BND failed. I didn't read most of Ben Reilly's run as "Spider-Man" or when he was the Scarlet Spider. I have only bought one issue of BND (ASM#600, anniversary issue and all), but skimmed the first few issues in a TPB in a bookstore and didn't care with the direction--though I still get sick a little bit when I think of OMD.

All that said, I was wrong about Spider-Girl. I bought them on a whim because of a cheap deal. And they're fantastic. Yeah, Mayday is not Peter Parker. But I can read it and see the Peter Parker I remember before Sins Past, The Other, Civil War, Back in Black, and ultimately One More Day, twisted him into something he wasn't. It was a continuation of the classic Peter Parker. So, if Marvel is compelled to remain in this OMD/BND bastardization where Spidey is increasingly beginning to look like a spandexed version of Archie Andrews....then I can live with Spider-Girl being the conclusion to the character that is little more than a Mickey Mouse logo now in his own books.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Also, the whole Dexter Bennett build-up was crap, from never remembering Pete's name, to all of a sudden knowing "seemingly" everything, that was a very wasted character they created. just like nearly everyone introduced in OMD/BND...

I'm pretty sure he never read any of his staff profiles, and even there, who would place his birth details? Weight? His parents?
How about writing he was bitten by a spider at the age of 15?

 

[Themanofbat]

And I agree with you that is why Ben Reilly, Spider-Girl, and BND failed. I didn't read most of Ben Reilly's run as "Spider-Man" or when he was the Scarlet Spider. I have only bought one issue of BND (ASM#600, anniversary issue and all), but skimmed the first few issues in a TPB in a bookstore and didn't care with the direction--though I still get sick a little bit when I think of OMD.

All that said, I was wrong about Spider-Girl. I bought them on a whim because of a cheap deal. And they're fantastic. Yeah, Mayday is not Peter Parker. But I can read it and see the Peter Parker I remember before Sins Past, The Other, Civil War, Back in Black, and ultimately One More Day, twisted him into something he wasn't. It was a continuation of the classic Peter Parker. So, if Marvel is compelled to remain in this OMD/BND bastardization where Spidey is increasingly beginning to look like a spandexed version of Archie Andrews....then I can live with Spider-Girl being the conclusion to the character that is little more than a Mickey Mouse logo now in his own books.

I just want to comment on the parts that are in bold...

First of all, who says that BND "failed"? Yes, it did divide a community, but the sales numbers alone in the first & second year of BND have the highest number of Spider-On-going book sales (for the year) of the decade... to a Marvel acountant, that certainly doesn;t translate into "fail"... Have the numbers dwindled? Yes... but they have for all other comics, so to point that out in theSpider-Books is null & void in my opinion...

Now... did it fail in what it wanted to achieve? I would say "no". BND wanted to start with a non-married Spider-Man that took place 3 months after the end of OMD, with explanations as to what happened in that time frame to come. And we got to see all of that (with the explanation of the disappearance of his new powers from the Other & the organic web fluid...) It brought back core characters, as well as new ones, to the book, with explanations... and it brought elements to the book that we haven't seen in a long time... elements that are the foundation to what made Spider-Man great, in MY opinion. Was it perfect? Of course not. Were all the stories gems? Of course not. These are all subjective opinions between us, but I don't believe that ASM "failed" in its goals over the last 3 years...

Secondly, you say that you've read Spider-Girl and you see "the Peter Parker I remember before Sins Past, The Other, Civil War, Back in Black, and ultimately One More Day, twisted him into something he wasn't."...

What's that got to do with the new direction? Those are all stories told during the JMS era (and a few others)... did you try Slott's first issue? Aside from one page, a LOT of people who gave the book up after OMD, are at least giving the book positive reviews, and a few might even jump back on board... Slott's an old school writer... so chances are, you're going to see that same Peter Parker that you read in Spider-Girl... or at least, the one you remember before all the garbage stories from 1998 to 2007....

Cheers,

 

[DACrowe]

I was speaking in hyperbole. Yes, BND has struggled in the longrun, but it has done well enough for Marvel to stick with it, so it has not failed. I was just responding to Dragon talking about why fans had problems with BND and thereby compare it to Spider-Girl and Ben Reilly in the '90s.

As for BND, I did skim-read the first 3-4 issues in a Barnes and Noble store. I bought ASM#600 for anniversary reasons and skim read the issue released after that. I've also skim-read the Obama issue.

I have been left unimpressed. They have "returned him to his roots" by recycling stories from the '70s and '80s. But worse, he no longer feels like a character. He feels like a corporate mascot similar to Mickey Mouse is to Disney or Mario is to Nintendo. He is like Archie. He is just going through the same story again and again to keep the kids happy. I understand why you want to do that (as to keep the character fresh for a new generation....even if more and more of kids don't read comics or anything on paper). But the way they went about it was horrid.

And he ultimately doesn't feel like a Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern or Tom DeFalco Spidey, no matter how hard they try. He is teamed up with the President and swings with Stephen Colbert. He just feels like a soulless piece of merchandizing in the comics these days. Like an action figure.

...So, I quit reading.

P.S. There were some good things that happened between 1999-2004. Goblin's Gate, Death in the Family, the last good Lizard story (the one in Miami), Countdown, Mark Millar's 12-issue run on Marvel Knights Spidey, JMS/JRjr's initial run with Aunt May finding out, MJ returning, and the 9/11 issue. It was after JRjr left that the book went to crap. And I suspect a lot of it had to do with Marvel wanting to make it so crappy we would accept. Maybe not with Sins Past and The Other (those I think JMS was burned out on)...

but c'mon. They make Spidey Iron Man's brown nosing sidekick, have him unmask himself on national television (completely out of character), and they have Aunt May assassinated. They were making the stories terrible so that anything would seem good at that point. They deliberately wrote bad Spidey stories for two years to set up BND. That I strongly dislike. Oh well.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I think the point in all this was not that MJ was not a well rounded character, but what the writers did with her. Writers like DeFalco and JMS knew how to write her. Others did not.

For me, the jury is still out how Slott writes MJ. Like TMOB said, with the exception of the MJ scene, I liked his handling of this first issue. I hope he keeps up the good work.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

And he ultimately doesn't feel like a Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern or Tom DeFalco Spidey, no matter how hard they try. He is teamed up with the President and swings with Stephen Colbert. He just feels like a soulless piece of merchandizing in the comics these days. Like an action figure.

That is what I felt about BND as well. I'm hoping Slott reverses this trend.

P.S. There were some good things that happened between 1999-2004. Goblin's Gate, Death in the Family, the last good Lizard story (the one in Miami), Countdown, Mark Millar's 12-issue run on Marvel Knights Spidey, JMS/JRjr's initial run with Aunt May finding out, MJ returning, and the 9/11 issue. It was after JRjr left that the book went to crap. And I suspect a lot of it had to do with Marvel wanting to make it so crappy we would accept. Maybe not with Sins Past and The Other (those I think JMS was burned out on)...

but c'mon. They make Spidey Iron Man's brown nosing sidekick, have him unmask himself on national television (completely out of character), and they have Aunt May assassinated. They were making the stories terrible so that anything would seem good at that point. They deliberately wrote bad Spidey stories for two years to set up BND. That I strongly dislike. Oh well.

I agree with this 100%. JRJR leaving ended a good run, and although not exactly like the 60's, 70's, & 80's runs I enjoyed, was better than it had in a while.

And yes, a lot of that stuff was written to write Pete into a corner for the exact purpose of coming up with the OMD reboot.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Big Time really feels more like BND season 3 than a whole new "status quo". Sure, Peter's getting a new job and a forced girlfriend, but the build up feels exactly like when BND dawned. I'll give BT a try though, just to see if BT feels any different.

This has been bothering me for weeks, so I have to ask...

If this is the beginning of season 3... what was the beginning of season 2?