The Flash The Flash Season 4 Episode 14: "Subject 9"

[igoogol]

Haven't watched this yet, but looks like another skip. Kudos to the brave souls for watching every ep.

 

[Web-Head]

Is this the first episode Joe wasn't in?

 

[igoogol]

Is this the first episode Joe wasn't in?

Really?! Wow, first it was Iris replacing Barry as the lead character, and now it's Cecil replacing Joe?! I bet the finale will have Ralph dead, and Iris and Cecil saving the day and/or stopping Devoe.

 

[Flash525]

Anyone else think that device that Wells created was a bit lame? I mean, someone had to place it on DeVoe's forehead - he (or, she?) hands hands and thus could surely have removed it him/herself? Wouldn't a device from a distance be more practical; one used to trap her without actually getting up close and personal?

 

[Prettyricky]

Sure savitar told them they used the device but why would they assume the villian who time travels would actually give them something that useful to defeat another villian?

 

[Avenging Angel]

Haven't watched this yet, but looks like another skip. Kudos to the brave souls for watching every ep.

I got my youtube on, not much in the clip area to invest in.

 

[Flash525]

Sure savitar told them they used the device but why would they assume the villian who time travels would actually give them something that useful to defeat another villian?

It's quite simply really, at least as far as I'm aware; Savitar needed that to happen in order to exist. Savitar (and that rendition of Barry) was after the defeat of DeVoe, so if DeVoe wasn't defeated, Savitar wouldn't have become.

...if that makes sense?

 

[fan4stic]

Really?! Wow, first it was Iris replacing Barry as the lead character, and now it's Cecil replacing Joe?! I bet the finale will have Ralph dead, and Iris and Cecil saving the day and/or stopping Devoe.

Why would a story about making a device to help Cecile sleep with her powers be about Joe? It's a good thing Iris hasn't done much, so there's no replacement.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Really?! Wow, first it was Iris replacing Barry as the lead character, and now it's Cecil replacing Joe?! I bet the finale will have Ralph dead, and Iris and Cecil saving the day and/or stopping Devoe.

Oh please. Cecil get gets the least amount of screentime outta all of them, how dare she get an episdoe that doesnt have her man in it and have a story of her own! You don't seem mad that Ralph is getting so much screen time. He is brand spanking new. Cecil and Iris have been around twice as long as he has.

 

[LTuser]

Repercussions and doubts! And it looks like Ralph may have to keep doing the DeVoe schtick for a little while. Or until DeVoe proves that DeVoe is dead.

And yeah, I'm with yeah Ralph. I have to listen to country being played at work, and I hate it so much!

Same here. Through out bootcamp when we were even allowed to have the radio on, most of my time in ET a school, and on BOTH carriers during port visits or in my workshop, i'd say country was put on 70% of the time with rap being 27% of the time and all other music types making the last 3%. Hell for the first 2 years of my 3 years on the first carrier, the chief i worked in the shop with, WOULDN'T even let any other music be played BUT COUNTRY when he was in his office..
So i got so SICK OF IT, i still, to this day, can't bare to listen to it for more than a few minutes...

As to ralph, i DO wonder, why Devo seems to be ok with Ralph imitating him and getting Barry out of jail.. Maybe it is all part of his plan..

So she doesn't scream but another aspect of the sonic scream lol. Though somehow it always looks better anywhere then Arrow.

Her initial 'screach out' she did with just her hand did look cool. BUT the whole "use your viola' angle was strange to me..
PITY she got 'ganked in the end too.. I LIKED HER!

You know...Iris could've been doing all of this investigative journalism if Ralph weren't around.

That's something they HAVE totally and utterly ignored for what, 2 full seasons now? SHE WAS AN investigative reporter for a while.. Then it jus seemed to disappear..

If they got rid of Cisco being clairvoyant I would be so happy.

I like that angle, but wondered WHY Devo was not only able to SEE, but affect Cisco when he was vibing..

Maybe it's time to go old school and just use a sniper.

OR have the flash run around her with a large blade, and lop his legs/arms/head off!

The fight against DeVoe pissed me off because it was one of those scenes where they say "screw common sense" and they just had country girl stand there as DeVoe took over her body. She didn't need a violin to use her powers. She knew this. Barry knew this. Ralph knew this. But everyone conveniently forgot in that scene.

That irked me off too. All of a sudden she forgot how she TWICE whapped out the scream of hers from her body/hands??

The Wells/Cecile storyline was interesting? It is good to get 2 characters who barely interact, interacting together but just so weird.

I almost liked that side line story MORE than the main one..

In his limited amount of time on The Flash, Ralph has already gotten a well rounded storyline. He already had a brief love interest in country girl. He started off as a slag, learned how to be a superhero, gained confidence. If only* they would do the same for Iris and Caitlin and to an extent Wells.*

I am certainly liking ralph more and more..

If barry should be revealing himself to anyone it should be the captain of ccpd seeing as how story wise that would make the most sense.

It woudl certainly make all the other cops reconsider their suspicion of barry..

I'm wondering whether these bus metas can be rescued too, and whether Team Flash will find that out in an upcoming episode; if their memories, powers and maybe personalities are stored with DeVoe somewhere, and if their bodies are on ice (could they be?) then there's hope for them all. If not...

IT certainly seems that they are all going to be ghakked by devo.. Team flash is 0 for 6..

Can anyone else see Ralph sacrificing himself to defeat DeVoe when the time comes? As is normal with Flash, each season they have, and release a backup character; Season 1 was Ronnie/Martin (Firestorm), Season 2 was Fake Jay, Season 3 was Julian, Season 4 will be Ralph.

I'd have a rage session if they did that.

Anyone else think that device that Wells created was a bit lame? I mean, someone had to place it on DeVoe's forehead - he (or, she?) hands hands and thus could surely have removed it him/herself? Wouldn't a device from a distance be more practical; one used to trap her without actually getting up close and personal?

And if you are going to get THAT up close, just have dibney wrap his arms and hand around her entire head AND SUFFOCATE THE DolT!
OR run up, and stick a bloody knife in her skull!!!!

 

[X-Ray]

^ she could have done what Black Siren did to Vigilante at that close range. But all the sudden her powers don't work without the fiddle. The handling of her powers was poorly written.

 

[Avenging Angel]

The fiddle was used to channel, but it wasn't really needed. She reminded me of Havok and Black Siren combined. She clearly had control of it when she knocked Barry and Ralph out. Not sure why the violin had to be what triggers her powers.

 

[igoogol]

I got my youtube on, not much in the clip area to invest in.

Me, too, for eps like this. Or instagram is another easy source. This show isn't worth much more than that for eps like this, and there's been a lot of eps like this this year.

Why would a story about making a device to help Cecile sleep with her powers be about Joe? Why would a story about making a device to help Cecile sleep with her powers be about Joe?

Not here for the Iris, Cecile, Ralph show. She needs to join Tracy Brand, Patty Spivot and Linda Park who all had the decency to leave. Iris and Ralph can go with her while they're at it. Season 1 remains the best and that season didn't have any of these characters on the team...

It's a good thing Iris hasn't done much, so there's no replacement.

So, you're not discussing this show.

Cecil gets the least amount of screentime outta all of them, how dare she get an episdoe that doesnt have her man in it and have a story of her own!

Exactly! Especially when we got squat this season about Joe.

You don't seem mad that Ralph is getting so much screen time. He is brand spanking new. Cecil and Iris have been around twice as long as he has.

See red paragraph above. Also, you don't seem mad at Iris and Cecile being propped up by Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, HR and Joe who have all been around even longer and are more relevant than any love interests.

Ratings for this ep is tied for series low. Wonder why...

 

[igoogol]

That scene between Ralph and Barry totally means Ralph's a gonna by season's end.

 

[LTuser]

^ she could have done what Black Siren did to Vigilante at that close range. But all the sudden her powers don't work without the fiddle. The handling of her powers was poorly written.

That would have royally dongged over Divo..

 

[fan4stic]

Not here for the Iris, Cecile, Ralph show. She needs to join Tracy Brand, Patty Spivot and Linda Park who all had the decency to leave. Iris and Ralph can go with her while they're at it. Season 1 remains the best and that season didn't have any of these characters on the team..

The show's problem is being stagnant. You're asking for more aggressive stagnancy? Things change on shows and they should. Otherwise your stuck with OTA for 5 seasons while all the other characters die, leave or get knocked down in the list of importance. The team is a crutch. Get rid of it the whole team. Don't try to go back to the old one.

So, you're not discussing this show.

That's this show. Iris doesn't do much. Cecile has done a few things, but a sub-plot doesn't make it about her.

See red paragraph above. Also, you don't seem mad at Iris and Cecile being propped up by Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, HR and Joe who have all been around even longer and are more relevant than any love interests.

You've defended Ralph's place on the show before though. But Iris has been around as long as they all have and Joe's never been particularly relevant after s1. But Cecile has had only 1 episode where she's there and Joe's not. Iris isn't being propped up, because she's done so little. Ralph is the main spot stealer here. You can't shift responsibility.

 

[Primal Slayer]

See red paragraph above. Also, you don't seem mad at Iris and Cecile being propped up by Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, HR and Joe who have all been around even longer and are more relevant than any love interests.

Ratings for this ep is tied for series low. Wonder why...

You mean you forgot that Ralph, Cisco and Caitlin are superheroes on a superhero show. So why would anyone have a problem with them doing their thing. Meanwhile the show continues to make Iris more than she is, viewers will continue to point out how ridiculous she is.

Please share what her grounded, focused vision is? Because all I saw was yet another ep of Cisco, Caitlin and Ralph propping up her leadership.

So, Iris criticism should be in the ep threads while pro-Iris is allowed in the general thread. Got it.

Speaking of, Ralph has been the saving grace of this season, but when he started down the path of broodiness in True Colors, then he needs to go, and I don't mean joining the Legends. I'm not here for Barry or Ralph or anyone going all navel-contemplating. Also, while I was happy that Joe won't be alone anymore, Cecile has outstayed her welcome. She's now as forced and lazy plot device as the other love interests in the CWverse between her baby and powers. Who asked for this? Any of this?

Blaming Ralph, ignoring Wally was basically brought on to prop up Iris and that she's just a shoehorned love interest with nothing in her forced story to ever support her as leader, flash and suiting up works for you. Got it.

I'm blaming Iris for Wally joining the show too soon and being booted off now that she's fake flash. Ralph is a fun temp while Barry broods in prison. Ralph's screen time is more than needed after 1.5 spectacularly horrible seasons of constant doom and gloom, but I suppose you didn't bat an eyelash at that since it's been about Iris. She isn't a superhero or CSI, so why would anyone have issue with them. Julian did his thing and left, Ralph will do the same. But we're stuck with potted plant Iris.

Ralph is doing what he's supposed to do: be a superhero. Iris isn't a superhero, a leader or flash, or a scientist, engineer or cop for that matter. Not sure why that's hard to understand. Time clocked on the show isn't going to make a love interest more relevant. The show's attempts to sideline Barry and bringing on Wally to prop up Iris have never worked, that's why all the complains against her increased screen time. And it doesn't help that she makes everything about her while the team is about stopping the baddies. To be fair, Barry is enabling her on this.

I've enjoyed Ralph, he disturbs the status quo, he's not perfect, he's funny and irreverent, and most important of all, he's not saddled with relationship drama. If they're not going to keep him, then I hope he goes to Legends. He'll be great there, too. While I don't miss Julian, I've enjoyed his prickly interactions with Barry and the team. In the mean time, Iris has become the hollow center of every scene, especially at Star Labs.

You do know that Iris has been around since day 1? And Cecile still doesnt near as much screentime as anyone else this season so her getting an episode isnt that big of a deal.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Failing to see the relevance of that. In season 1 she was only around when it was time to be Eddie's girlfriend and stupidly tumblr blog about The Flash against his requests. She also had no journalism arc to speak of, she stole Mason's question and passed it off as her own in the press conference with Dr. Wells. She's managed to last this long without making any difference on the show. Being Barry's moral support can always be replaced. Harry, Caitlin and Cisco are his friends, then there is Joe.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I really like how this show is building Devoe into an increasingly powerful foe. I really wasn't sure about the body-leaping idea, but all of the actors/actresses have acquitted themselves well at capturing the personality that Neil Sandlilands brought. Now the season-ending showdown is personal for Ralph too, which was a nice touch.

This episode gets points for introducing the pocket dimension concept to the series. I missed seeing Joe on this episode, although the Harry-Cecile friendship focus was hilarious and heartfelt. My favorite moment was when Cecile said that Joe was keeping her up all night and Harry was like *bow-chicka-wow-wow*

 

[igoogol]

fan4stic: We barely got Flash and OTF since late s2. Now, they've been replaced by 2 love interests, 2 temporary meta and a bunch of 2-off metas. I sure as heck don't want THIS either. I want Flash to be effing Flash and not a prop for everyone else, and if they HAVE to have a large supporting cast then they should be recurring and NOT regular.

Yeah, I've defended Ralph before because he was FUN. Now he's not, and that schlockiness of him and that fiddling meta? MEH. Ultimately, I'm here for Flash, not team flash, not Iris, not Cecile, not Ralph.

Primal Slayer: Iris was best in s1 because she was doing her own thing, staying in her lane. Since late s2? Not so much and only getting worse. Cecile is like Tracy Brand: unnecessary. Unlike Tracy, Cecile isn't leaving. Also, you do know the show is called The Flash, and not The Iris or The Cecile? Flash hasn't been the lead character of his own show since s2 which is a big deal.

 

[fan4stic]

fan4stic: We barely got Flash and OTF since late s2. Now, they've been replaced by 2 love interests, 2 temporary meta and a bunch of 2-off metas. I sure as heck don't want THIS either. I want Flash to be effing Flash and not a prop for everyone else, and if they HAVE to have a large supporting cast then they should be recurring and NOT regular.

The OTF was very prominent in the first half of season 3 in regards to the conflict between the team and how Barry's time messing effected them. No one's replacing anyone. Cecile didn't replace anyone on team flash in this episode. And that's only if you place an importance on a specific group and that way can lie a Felicity problem. Not to mention the stagnancy that can happen because of it. And Iris hasn't done enough in the last 5 episodes to replace anyone.

Yeah, I've defended Ralph before because he was FUN. Now he's not, and that schlockiness of him and that fiddling meta? MEH. Ultimately, I'm here for Flash, not team flash, not Iris, not Cecile, not Ralph.

Him being fun doesn't erase him taking the amount of time he's taken. Then why are you taking issue with the lack of OTF, if you're here for Flash and not team flash?

 

[Avenging Angel]

Iris was best in s1 because she was doing her own thing, staying in her lane.

My post was deleted. I was basically agreeing with this.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Primal Slayer: Iris was best in s1 because she was doing her own thing, staying in her lane. Since late s2? Not so much and only getting worse. Cecile is like Tracy Brand: unnecessary. Unlike Tracy, Cecile isn't leaving. Also, you do know the show is called The Flash, and not The Iris or The Cecile? Flash hasn't been the lead character of his own show since s2 which is a big deal.

You do know that Iris and Cecile haven't dominated the show? Especially Cecile lol. To say that he hasnt been the lead of his own show since S2 but somehow fail to even talk about Cisco and Caitlin or Wells....not to mention Ralph who has had more to do this season then anyone.

I would love it if someone came back with some screen time totals. If Iris tops Barry I am all for throwing in the towel.

 

[Ninjablade]

^ I’m curious as well about this actually. Not just because of Iris but for every character. I think there’s probably 3 episodes in which Barry has the least amount of screen time (the premier, “Girls Night Out”, and possibly “Don’t Run”). I think Ralph might be the closest comparison for screentime to Barry.

Maybe I’ll do that this weekend.

 

[Ninjablade]

Screen time totals for "Subject 9"

Barry: 24:34.3
Ralph: 19:44.4
Iris: 13:07.6
Cisco: 12:01.2
Caitlin: 09:48.7
DeVoe: 08:59.01
Harry: 08:01.1
Cecile: 05:53:6

Episode Runtime: 42:18

They're all rough estimates, and more like scene time. I didn't necessarily stop and start the timer every time the character was physically on screen or not. If a scene started, I would start the timer as soon as the character was established to be there and ended it when they were established to have left the scene.

I'll do "True Colors", "Honey, I Shrunk Team Flash", "The Trial of The Flash", and "Don't Run" at some point this weekend since they're all readily available on the CW app.