The Format War

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Downhere said:
Well, while you say Toshiba rushed out with HD-DVD, they still delivered a completed product. The only feature it didn't have at start was Dolby TrueHD, which was later added to first generation players via firmware. Now, Blu-Ray came out with a player that did not have the finalized specs for profile 1.1, which still hasn't been completed but will be later in the year. In my honest opinion, this should have been finalized for first generation players.
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Fair enough.

Also, when it comes to standardizing a format, however many companies backing it has nothing to do with how long it takes. Sony had many years to finialize their format, considering they started working on Blu-Ray at the time DVD became the next standard. Sony and Philips weren't happy that their MultiMedia Compact Disc was abandoned in favor of Toshiba's DVD format and they didn't get the royalties they thought they would get so Sony, with Panasonic, immediately started work on a HD format. Toshiba also started working on a next gen solution as well. I mean, considering the royalties they get from DVD, they weren't going to lose all those profits.
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It's not as one sided as you state it, Toshiba had a virtual monopoly on royalties, and as far as the baord went it was the equivalent of The Orion Senate in Masters of Orion 3.

Considering Toshiba was the force behind DVD, do you think they would want to give up the royalties they get from new technology? Of course they would move ahead with their own format. It was the next progression from DVD. The Blu-Ray group (specifically Sony and Panasonic) tried to use their shady tactics to block the invention of HD-DVD for their own gain. For example...

Back in 2004, the U.S. Department of Justice made preliminary inquiries into purported efforts by members of the Blu-ray group to use their voting power in the DVD Forum collectively to thwart development of the HD DVD format.

At the time, there were widespread reports that Sony, Matsu****a and Panasonic, in particular, used their positions on the DVD Forum steering committee to deny HD DVD-developer Toshiba the absolute majority it needed to pass resolutions, by abstaining from voting.
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Because they didn't want Toshiba to maintin their disproportionate grip that they enjoyed on the DVD format.

In fact, the Justice Department’s interest in the actions of the Blu-ray group likely predated the information request in 2004, largely thanks to the efforts of Warner Home Video, which at the time was a strong supporter of the HD DVD format and had complained to Justice officials about Blu-ray’s actions as early as 2002.

Warner ultimately dropped those complaints, and the department’s investigation fizzled out.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6458096.html[/quote]

I'm not disagreeing with this but you know for a fact that Sony Panasonic etc weren't the only ones pulling shady tactics.

I would thank HD-DVD more for prices coming down on both formats. If HD-DVD didn't exist everyone would still be paying high prices for a Blu-Ray Player. Also, the first releases on Blu-Ray weren't all that hot. HD-DVD set a standard in picture quality which got Blu-Ray to play catch up with. I remember all the hoopla over The Fifth Element. Sony blamed the Samsung Blu-Ray player for how it looked and Samsung blamed Sony for crappy encoding. Of course Sony then took back blaming Samsung and then blamed the source saying it wasn't in good condition to begin with.
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Actually you should thank the BRD group for the prices. Considering Thoshiba was petrified of the force behind the BRD group and the clout they hold within the industry. There's a reason Toshiba started selling their players at no real profit, and more recently at a loss. It's because of the presence of a competitor like BRD.

It's not ahrd to figure out, the selmdom companies who are absolutely commited to HD_DVD were the ones who disproportionately gained under the DVD format, the ones who went to form the BRD were the ones more or less left out in the cold irespective of contributions to the DVD format.PAnd while HD-DVD had their features set out of the gate, the reason more companies sided with BRD is because the BRD association was ultimately offering more advanced technology to the comapnies liking like BD+, that and the PS3 play a huge role.
 
It's not as one sided as you state it, Toshiba had a virtual monopoly on royalties, and as far as the baord went it was the equivalent of The Orion Senate in Masters of Orion 3.
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Of course Toshiba had a monopoly on royalties, it was their creation. The same with Sony and Compact Disc. Why do you think Sony has always tried to make their own format? Because they would have a virtual monopoly on royalties.

Actually you should thank the BRD group for the prices. Considering Thoshiba was petrified of the force behind the BRD group and the clout they hold within the industry. There's a reason Toshiba started selling their players at no real profit, and more recently at a loss. It's because of the presence of a competitor like BRD.
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Toshiba was petrified? Hardly, there technology was cheaper to produce. I don't understand how anyone could say Toshiba is taking a loss on current generation HD-DVD players with no proof. With first gen players they were taking a loss. It cost around $670 to make the first gen player and they sold it for 499. The reason it cost so much was because it was virtually a low end PC. The 2nd generation players are not as complex and I would say they are either breaking even or making a slight profit on current generation players. And your quote could be directed at Sony as well considering the hit they were taking and still are with the PS3, the best selling Blu-Ray Player on the market which also forced other consumer electronic Blu-Ray exclusive companies to lower the price of their players before they would have probably wanted to do so. So, it is the other way around. I mean, you have to have noticed that when HD-DVD lowers prices, BR companies follow suit.

It's not ahrd to figure out, the selmdom companies who are absolutely commited to HD_DVD were the ones who disproportionately gained under the DVD format, the ones who went to form the BRD were the ones more or less left out in the cold irespective of contributions to the DVD format.PAnd while HD-DVD had their features set out of the gate, the reason more companies sided with BRD is because the BRD association was ultimately offering more advanced technology to the comapnies liking like BD+, that and the PS3 play a huge role.
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Toshiba and Warner Brothers were the ones who gained with DVD considering they were the ones to help form the format. Everyone else had to pay royalties for the use of DVD. Just like with JVC being the creator of VHS. Whichever company creates the format will gain the most. I'm sorry, but BD+ is a joke. Companies like Disney and Fox want more security, but it will be cracked just like with AACS. It is inevitable and all these security measures will mean nothing. While BD may have more features on paper, they have yet to implement them and even when they do it will only be on par with HD-DVD but not exceeding it.
 
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060623-7121.html

There are many more sources confirming Toshiba sells their playuers at a loss or barely breaking even, but I'm not going to go diging the others up right now who have gone in a disassembled the players. THey may be cheaper to produce but that's not the wghole story. Because Toshiba is taking a hit on their players, it's one of the few things they can do in this current format war to help fend off Blu Ray.

Price not withstanding you're going to have a hard time argueing that Toshiba wouldn't have been so agressive in price drops (throwing in 10 free movies and all) were it not for Blu Ray.
 
Zenien said:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060623-7121.html

There are many more sources confirming Toshiba sells their playuers at a loss or barely breaking even, but I'm not going to go diging the others up right now who have gone in a disassembled the players. THey may be cheaper to produce but that's not the wghole story. Because Toshiba is taking a hit on their players, it's one of the few things they can do in this current format war to help fend off Blu Ray.
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That link reiterates what I said about the first generation players costing 670 bucks and selling for 499. All you will find in a search are first generation costs. Second generation players are not as complexed compared to the first generation players. First gen players were like low end PC's. Current players are redesigned and cheaper to manufacture.

Price not withstanding you're going to have a hard time argueing that Toshiba wouldn't have been so agressive in price drops (throwing in 10 free movies and all) were it not for Blu Ray.
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Well, of course Toshiba was aggressive in their pricing. But look at Blu-Ray, they are doing the same thing, being as aggressive as they can be. Even following Toshiba with the free 5 movies deal.
 
Which is why I said the format war was good in the begining, but not anymore. The format war was good for getting Blu Ray standards up to snuff, and for plunging player prices across the board, but it's just a hindrence now. Reguardless of who wins there should be one winner sooner rather then later.
 
'Halloween,' 'Evil Dead 2,' 'Dawn of the Dead', 'Day of the Dead' on Blu-ray October 2

The date is set for classic horrors, should be popular during the Halloween month

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Evil_Dead_2,_Dawn_of_the_Dead_on_Blu-ray/771

Nearly a month after formally announcing its support of the Blu-ray format, Starz Home Entertainment says it will release four horror film classics as its first Blu-ray titles.

As we originally reported last month, Starz (formerly Anchor Bay) had been expected to launch its Blu-ray support with its 'Masters of Horror' anthology. Not to worry, 'Masters of Horror' is still bound for Blu-ray beginning in mid-October, but in a surprise announcement, it turns out four other titles will hit store shelves first.
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Arriving in stores October 2, the distributor will unleash John Carpenter's 'Halloween,' the horror-comedy 'Evil Dead 2' and two installments in George A. Romeo's original "Living Dead" franchise, 'Dawn of the Dead' and 'Day of the Dead' in first-ever high-def versions.

Tech specs will include full 1080p video transfers (codec TBA), and Starz has also elected to go with uncompressed PCM soundtracks for the audio.

No supplemental details have yet been revealed. Note also that all four of the titles have been released in prior "Director's Cut" and extended editions on DVD, but no information is yet available on exactly which version(s) of the films will make Blu-ray.

Starz has set a suggested $29.98 list price for each title.

We've added listings for the quartet to our Blu-ray Release Schedule, under October 2. Stay tuned for final specs and box art in the coming weeks.

See what people are saying about this story in our forums area, or check out other recent discussions.

Discs mentioned in this article: (Click for specs and reviews)
Halloween (1978) (Blu-ray)
Dawn of the Dead (1978) (Blu-ray)
Day of the Dead (1985) (Blu-ray)
Evil Dead 2: Dead by Dawn (Blu-ray)
 
Zenien said:
Which is why I said the format war was good in the begining, but not anymore.
Click to expand...

The war is still good. None of these formats will sell big until prices come down even lower, especially on Blu-Ray's front.
 
3947.jpg


September 25th yo :o
 
I'm not sure why I like it to be honest, maybe it's the lead actress or something.

EDIT: You are right about the use for the format war still being viable since it will continue to get player prices down further. We're nearing the end anyway, the BRD group just needs to get their players cheaper.
 
Zenien said:
I'm not sure why I like it to be honest, maybe it's the lead actress or something.
Click to expand...

Underworld is an awesome movie. I know there are some who don't like it but I loved it. I just wish part 2 was better, it was ok but not near as good as the first one.
 
Really?

Because I've never seen the original. I had picked up Underworld 2 on my PSP ona whim and I really dug it for well being a movie I picked up on my PSP on a whim, I'm not sure how it will hold up being a full movie experience.
 
Zenien said:
Really?

Because I've never seen the original. I had picked up Underworld 2 on my PSP ona whim and I really dug it for well being a movie I picked up on my PSP on a whim, I'm not sure how it will hold up being a full movie experience.
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Well, if you liked the second one you should like the first one a great deal more, especially the unrated extended cut. The first one has a more coherent story than the second film and it was executed a bit better.


Imdaly - Have you ever ordered a movie that was released overseas first? There are a few films I'd like to get but not sure if the quality will be as good as a US release.
 
Downhere said:
Imdaly - Have you ever ordered a movie that was released overseas first? There are a few films I'd like to get but not sure if the quality will be as good as a US release.
Click to expand...

I have 2 imports so far: "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" and "The Prestige". They both look amazing, and I wouldn't have even been able to tell it's an import if it wasn't for the UK's rating system logo on the cover instead of our own.

There are a few other HD DVDs I plan on importing once they are released: "Fantastic Four", "Ghost Rider", "The Island" and "Bridge to Terabithia".

It's a great advantage of HD DVD, it being completely region-free. Sure it's not going to be a mainstream solution for the average movie viewer, but it's great the the option is there to see many movies that over here are Blu-ray only or not even out on either format yet, that you can import from across the world.

If you get the disc from the UK, the disc will automatically play the English track. If it's from Spain, Poland, Germany, France, Japan, etc etc, all it takes is a simple click in the setup menu, and you've got yourself the English audio. :)

Here's a tentative schedule of HD DVD releases, including international release dates: http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=11990

And here's a pretty good visual view of most of the HD DVDs that are coming or already available to anyone in the world with an HD DVD player: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29854557
 
BatMatt said:
it looks so much better with the blue case
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Luckily I pay more attention to the movie itself than I do the box it comes in.

But hey, we've got you beat on the sequel box :)

513WXM1BA7L._SS500_.jpg

underworldevolution_hddvd.jpg
 
the box is 90% of the fun, and your image isn't showin up, sigh, typical HD-DVD
 
Downhere said:
Thanks.




Indeed they are, which is due to the competition. If Blu-Ray didn't have HD-DVD to contend with they would have taken their sweet little time getting things up to spec. But I am glad that by next year they should have everything squared away.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, competition brings out the best in companies. They try to outdo eachother by cramming more in, and cutting prices. That's a definite positive of the war. The downside being ppl investing in hardware they may not be able to buy new movies for sooner or later.
 
Zenien said:
'Halloween,' 'Evil Dead 2,' 'Dawn of the Dead', 'Day of the Dead' on Blu-ray October 2

The date is set for classic horrors, should be popular during the Halloween month

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Evil_Dead_2,_Dawn_of_the_Dead_on_Blu-ray/771

Nearly a month after formally announcing its support of the Blu-ray format, Starz Home Entertainment says it will release four horror film classics as its first Blu-ray titles.

As we originally reported last month, Starz (formerly Anchor Bay) had been expected to launch its Blu-ray support with its 'Masters of Horror' anthology. Not to worry, 'Masters of Horror' is still bound for Blu-ray beginning in mid-October, but in a surprise announcement, it turns out four other titles will hit store shelves first.
ADVERTISEMENT

Arriving in stores October 2, the distributor will unleash John Carpenter's 'Halloween,' the horror-comedy 'Evil Dead 2' and two installments in George A. Romeo's original "Living Dead" franchise, 'Dawn of the Dead' and 'Day of the Dead' in first-ever high-def versions.

Tech specs will include full 1080p video transfers (codec TBA), and Starz has also elected to go with uncompressed PCM soundtracks for the audio.

No supplemental details have yet been revealed. Note also that all four of the titles have been released in prior "Director's Cut" and extended editions on DVD, but no information is yet available on exactly which version(s) of the films will make Blu-ray.

Starz has set a suggested $29.98 list price for each title.

We've added listings for the quartet to our Blu-ray Release Schedule, under October 2. Stay tuned for final specs and box art in the coming weeks.

See what people are saying about this story in our forums area, or check out other recent discussions.

Discs mentioned in this article: (Click for specs and reviews)
Halloween (1978) (Blu-ray)
Dawn of the Dead (1978) (Blu-ray)
Day of the Dead (1985) (Blu-ray)
Evil Dead 2: Dead by Dawn (Blu-ray)
Click to expand...

If I didn't already have Evil dead 2, I probably would have got it. Some old movies I don't see the point in buying another copy of, but I love the Evil dead/Army of Darkness movies.
 
Personally the Evil Dead I love is Army of Darkness. The other two are decent, but it's the third one that make me like Evil Dead proper.
 
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