The Good, The Bad, and The Official Western Thread

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

Kinski seems really suited for Westerns. Too bad he didn't more.

 

[C. Lee]

Kinski seems really suited for Westerns. Too bad he didn't more.

I'm a Kinski fan....and I believe he appeared in around 20 westerns.

 

[gwynplaine]

What do you think of the Lone Ranger reboot, C. Lee? I'm not very familiar with the character, but I like the idea of a cowboy with a mask on and an indian side-kick.
Also just curious, but were there any supernatural elements in the original one and what do you think about Tonto taking center stage and probably overshadowing the Lone Ranger?
I think that just like with The Green Hornet, tone is going to be crucial. I really hope they don't go too comedic like GH did.

 

[C. Lee]

What do you think of the Lone Ranger reboot, C. Lee? I'm not very familiar with the character, but I like the idea of a cowboy with a mask on and an indian side-kick.
Also just curious, but were there any supernatural elements in the original one and what do you think about Tonto taking center stage and probably overshadowing the Lone Ranger?
I think that just like with The Green Hornet, tone is going to be crucial. I really hope they don't go too comedic like GH did.

I personally don't much like the sound of it (unless they just make a flat out comedy like the Sherlock Holmes WITHOUT A CLUE). I don't like messing around with classics too much. Sometimes it works, most of the time it just seems like a director wants to be artsy fartsy.

There wasn't any supernatural elements to the original story. John Reid (the ancestor of Britt Reid the Green Hornet) a Texas Ranger is ambushed along with a group of Rangers (his brother included) by the Butch Cavendish gang. All are left for dead, Tonto shows up and finds John still alive and nurses him back to good health. Once he's well, he decides to let the world believe he is still dead and puts on the mask and becomes the LONE Ranger.

The title of the movies, TV series I watched, and books I've read the last 40 some years isn't TONTO AND THE MASKED COWBOY....so I'm not too overwhelmed by the plans with this movie.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I'm a Kinski fan....and I believe he appeared in around 20 westerns.

I'v only seen him in two. TGS and FAFDM.

 

[gwynplaine]

I personally don't much like the sound of it (unless they just make a flat out comedy like the Sherlock Holmes WITHOUT A CLUE). I don't like messing around with classics too much. Sometimes it works, most of the time it just seems like a director wants to be artsy fartsy.

There wasn't any supernatural elements to the original story. John Reid (the ancestor of Britt Reid the Green Hornet) a Texas Ranger is ambushed along with a group of Rangers (his brother included) by the Butch Cavendish gang. All are left for dead, Tonto shows up and finds John still alive and nurses him back to good health. Once he's well, he decides to let the world believe he is still dead and puts on the mask and becomes the LONE Ranger.

The title of the movies, TV series I watched, and books I've read the last 40 some years isn't TONTO AND THE MASKED COWBOY....so I'm not too overwhelmed by the plans with this movie.

Hahat:.
Thanks for the infos

 

[Secret Fawful]

Thanks for the recommendations!

Hey, C. Lee, if you ever get around to watching The Big Gundown, I'm definitely curious on what you think of it.

 

[cherokeesam]

Another recommendation for a really great and often overlooked Western is Walter Hill's The Long Riders from 1980:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081071/

Very stylish and somber (and somewhat authentic) retelling of the James-Younger Gang story, unique in many ways....not least of which was the casting of real Hollywood brothers (the Carradines, the Keachs, and the Quaids) to give the gang a real sense of family.

 

[gwynplaine]

I think Appaloosa was better than it gets credit for.
Ed Harris and Viggo are really great in this movie.

 

[gwynplaine]

I'm jonesing for a good Westernt:.
Hopefully Tarantino's take on the genre will deliver.

 

[C. Lee]

Hey, C. Lee, if you ever get around to watching The Big Gundown, I'm definitely curious on what you think of it.

No, I haven't...but thanks for reminding me, I'll try and get to that this weekend.

Another recommendation for a really great and often overlooked Western is Walter Hill's The Long Riders from 1980:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081071/

Very stylish and somber (and somewhat authentic) retelling of the James-Younger Gang story, unique in many ways....not least of which was the casting of real Hollywood brothers (the Carradines, the Keachs, and the Quaids) to give the gang a real sense of family.

It's a personal favorite of mine. The Northfield Minnisota shootout is one of the wildest since the end of The Wild Bunch. The Ry Cooder period piece soundtrack is mesmerizing.

I think Appaloosa was better than it gets credit for.
Ed Harris and Viggo are really great in this movie.

Yep, it's a really underrated movie. I'm not sure, but I think the suddeness and quickness of the gunfights turned some people off...I think they wanted and expected long rambling shootouts (I like those in the movies too, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't).

I'm jonesing for a good Westernt:.
Hopefully Tarantino's take on the genre will deliver.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath on that...I hope to be proved wrong though.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Agreed, Appaloosa is a great film. A lot of people hated Renee Zellweger in it, and I can see why her performance was polarizing, but the character was written that way. I personally thought it was one of the things that really kept the movie interesting. My only gripe was Jeremy Iron's horrible American accent. They should have just let him keep his real accent. It would have worked.

Have any of you seen Blackthorn yet? It's available On Demand this week so I'm probably going to rent it. Looks really good... Sam Shepard and Stephen Rea are great actors, the premise sounds cool and the cinematography looks stunning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FMZDtpMFqk

 

[C. Lee]

Blackthorn looks good....but my OnDemand system has it for $10.00....too rich for my wallet.

 

[gwynplaine]

Like I said in the "Last Great Movie You've Seen Thread" I watched "Little Big Man" again (on Blu for the 1st time) last night
They don't make them like that anymore. I really love Westerns and I love 70's Westerns.

 

[moviedoors]

I think Appaloosa was better than it gets credit for.
Ed Harris and Viggo are really great in this movie.

You should check out the novels. Robert B Parker wrote four Hitch and Cole adventures, and they're all great reads. I wish Ed Harris would just adapt all of them.

 

[Holiday]

I know Harris wanted to do the second book as a sequel, but because the first movie didn't do enough business it didn't happen.

Shame, 'cause I really like that movie. Harris and Mortenson make a great team as Cole and Everett, would have liked to have them again.

Yep, it's a really underrated movie. I'm not sure, but I think the suddeness and quickness of the gunfights turned some people off...I think they wanted and expected long rambling shootouts (I like those in the movies too, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't).

I kinda liked that about it. The shootout over Bragg at the sheriff's later on in the movie is one of my favorite shootouts in a western. It's very tense and then just straight forward, BANG BANG with almost everyone getting hit. Love it.

 

[gwynplaine]

You should check out the novels. Robert B Parker wrote four Hitch and Cole adventures, and they're all great reads. I wish Ed Harris would just adapt all of them.

I wasn't aware there were 4 novels. I will look them up and thanks for the info
Harris and Mortensen did make a great team as Cole and Everett and I would have loved to see them ride again on the big screen. To me Appaloosa was actually better than the remakes of 3.10 and True Grit.

 

[moviedoors]

I wasn't aware there were 4 novels. I will look them up and thanks for the info
Harris and Mortensen did make a great team as Cole and Everett and I would have loved to see them ride again on the big screen. To me Appaloosa was actually better than the remakes of 3.10 and True Grit.

I agree on 3:10. That was a pretty silly movie, but man, I loved the Coen's take on True Grit. I like the Wayne version a lot too, but the Coens absolutely nailed the subversive humor of the novel.

You are talking to the biggest Coen Brothers fanatic on the planet though. t:

 

[gwynplaine]

I agree on 3:10. That was a pretty silly movie, but man, I loved the Coen's take on True Grit. I like the Wayne version a lot too, but the Coens absolutely nailed the subversive humor of the novel.

You are talking to the biggest Coen Brothers fanatic on the planet though. t:

Even though I preferred Appaloosa, I'm also a huge Coen Brothers fan and I actually quite enjoyed TG. I wish the villains had been scarier though (I'm talking Lee Marvin, Jack Palance scary, so I would have feared more for Jeff Bridges' life. Like Hitchock said "The Better the Villain, the Better the Film" and I love the fight of good vs evil in Westerns) and the ending less anti-climactic, but it was a really good film and remake. On a side note, what's your favorite Coen bros film?

 

[moviedoors]

Even though I preferred Appaloosa, I'm also a huge Coen Brothers fan and I actually quite enjoyed TG. I wish the villains had been scarier though (I'm talking Lee Marvin, Jack Palance scary, so I would have feared more for Jeff Bridges' life. Like Hitchock said "The Better the Villain, the Better the Film" and I love the fight of good vs evil in Westerns) and the ending less anti-climactic, but it was a really good film and remake. On a side note, what's your favorite Coen bros film?

It's a toss up between No Country For Old Men and Fargo. Both of those would be on my hypothetical top 10 movies of all time list. Fargo for its portrayal of the banality and stupidity of evil and the inherent goodness of one woman. That speech Marge gives in the end makes me weep. No Country is like the flip side of the coin (pun intended); the unfathomable abyssal unfairness of evil and the futility of the well intentioned. They're both existential masterpieces.

I also think Blood Simple may be the best debut film of all time (yes, perhaps even better than Citizen Kane, for entirely different reasons). That is a beast of a thriller. Their voice was fully formed from the word go. I am in awe of those two men.

Then there's the other gems like the mobster movie wet dream that is Miller's Crossing, the surreal descent into hell (count how many times Steve Buscemi says "six" in his first scene) and shallowness of the creative process that is Baron Fink. The hysterical meaninglessness of The Big Lebowski. The somber hopelessness and masculine deconstruction that is The Man Who Wasn't There. The slapstick body politics and shallow, greedy, stupidity of Burn After Reading. The existential dread and ultimate frustration of just not knowing and the Jewish experience in America in A Serious Man. These guys make films that are never just what you see on the surface of their filmmaking prowess. They make films that just keep on rewarding you the more you watch, rewatch, and ponder. They are masters of integrating themes and ideas with untouchable filmmaking chops.

If you haven't already, check out Todd Alcott's blog. He did a multi part full retrospective on their entire filmography and it's the single best deconstruction of their work that I've ever read.

 

[gwynplaine]

It's a toss up between No Country For Old Men and Fargo. Both of those would be on my hypothetical top 10 movies of all time list. Fargo for its portrayal of the banality and stupidity of evil and the inherent goodness of one woman. That speech Marge gives in the end makes me weep. No Country is like the flip side of the coin (pun intended); the unfathomable abyssal unfairness of evil and the futility of the well intentioned. They're both existential masterpieces.

I also think Blood Simple may be the best debut film of all time (yes, perhaps even better than Citizen Kane, for entirely different reasons). That is a beast of a thriller. Their voice was fully formed from the word go. I am in awe of those two men.

Then there's the other gems like the mobster movie wet dream that is Miller's Crossing, the surreal descent into hell (count how many times Steve Buscemi says "six" in his first scene) and shallowness of the creative process that is Baron Fink. The hysterical meaninglessness of The Big Lebowski. The somber hopelessness and masculine deconstruction that is The Man Who Wasn't There. The slapstick body politics of Burn After Reading. The existential dread and ultimate frustration of just not knowing and the Jewish experience in America in A Serious Man. These guys make films that are never just what you see on the surface of their filmmaking prowess. They make films that just keep on rewarding you the more you watch, rewatch, and ponder. They are masters of integrating themes and ideas with untouchable filmmaking chops.

If you haven't already, check out Todd Alcott's blog. He did a multi part full retrospective on their entire filmography and it's the single best deconstruction of their work that I've ever read.

Good Post
I personally really love Fargo, The Big Lebowski, Blood Simple and Raising Arizona. Amazing film makers indeed

 

[moviedoors]

I feel like I could write a college thesis on why those two are masters at making films that holistically combine theme, tone, with their meat and potatoes mastery of framing, pacing, cutting, and ungodly great sound design.

 

[kedrell]

No Country For Old Men is one of those movies that practically puts me in a conniption with how much it pissed me off. One of the worst films I've ever seen. Hell, I think it barely even qualifies as a film. Bland, lifeless characters doing a dead-pan through out the movie and virtually no story(Guy A chases Guy B for 2 hrs over stolen money, whoop-dee-doo). Fargo was better but still hardly gonna get put of any favorites list of mine. But NCFOM made me want to hunt the Coen's down to get my money back as they obviously just wasted my time with an even more obviously bad movie.

 

[Assassin32]

No Country For Old Men is one of those movies that practically puts me in a conniption with how much it pissed me off. One of the worst films I've ever seen. Hell, I think it barely even qualifies as a film. Bland, lifeless characters doing a dead-pan through out the movie and virtually no story(Guy A chases Guy B for 2 hrs over stolen money, whoop-dee-doo). Fargo was better but still hardly gonna get put of any favorites list of mine. But NCFOM made me want to hunt the Coen's down to get my money back as they obviously just wasted my time with an even more obviously bad movie.

Aww, you're the worst.

 

[kedrell]

I just don't appreciate films where the filmmakers basically want the audience to write the movie for them(via all manner of guesses as to what it means without anything of a definitive story coming from the creators). The "we'll throw a bunch of crap on the screen and you guess what it all means" movie is one of the worst kinds of chicanery, IMO. No one's paying me to write their movies for them. I paid them to entertain me for 2 hrs with a story set to moving pictures a.k.a. a movie.

I'm not a big fan of obscurantism.