The Guns thread

[Tilapia]

And any research they come back with will automatically be labeled as biased because in your words, they are done by "liberal Ivy elites".

Okay, so third party unbiased research cannot be conducted on the matter is the conclusion.

I don't agree with that obviously. Clearly assault weapons are becoming more prevalent in these shootings and we need updated statistics, but tighter regulation is only a small piece of the issue.

People are pushing the gun agenda and criticizing Trump on his tweets instead of identifying radical Islam and broken family/co-worker dynamics, because those aren't the sexy hot button topics. I get it.

 

[samsnee]

But why even let terrorists who are citizens like this shooter was even have the option of buying something intended to kill as many people as quickly as possible?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

But why even let terrorists who are citizens like this shooter was even have the option of buying something intended to kill as many people as quickly as possible?

Up until today, he didn't have a record as a terrorist of any kind, except for being interviewed by the FBI a few years ago. Those interviews came up with them pressing no charges and closing the case, which meant nothing added to his record. If there's nothing in his record to prohibit him from owning a weapon, background checks basically did their job (no matter how flawed they are due to the lack of key information not added.)

 

[Donner]

Maybe family members should be consulted before people are allowed to purchase firearms.

 

[Assassin]

But why even let terrorists who are citizens like this shooter was even have the option of buying something intended to kill as many people as quickly as possible?

for when we need to overthrow the government. remember how our nation was born in the first place? we didn't agree and decided to break off and form our own nation.

we need stricter gun laws, like Chicago, Paris and Belgium.

wait a minute...

 

[dnno1]

for when we need to overthrow the government. remember how our nation was born in the first place? we didn't agree and decided to break off and form our own nation.

we need stricter gun laws, like Chicago, Paris and Belgium.

wait a minute...

The laws on Sedition seem to contradict (and counteract) that argument.

 

[samsnee]

for when we need to overthrow the government. remember how our nation was born in the first place? we didn't agree and decided to break off and form our own nation.

we need stricter gun laws, like Chicago, Paris and Belgium.

wait a minute...

Yes because everyone knows that guns used in Chicago are only bought in Chicago.

This isn't 1776 anymore. The idea that one day we will have to overthrow our government is ridiculous unless we actually somehow elect a fascist like Trump into office. And if that happens then we deserve what we get.

 

[DarkKnight]

Such a shame to hear about this latest mass shooting and to see the gun being blamed and not the person. I will never understand this mentality.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I feel like a lot of the blood in Orlando is on the NRA's hands.

Forget Assault Rifle bans, their was a bill on the table after Sandy Hook to ban extended mags and it had 90% support from the people. The NRA got the Senate to crush it. Truly horrible.

Such a shame to hear about this latest mass shooting and to see the gun being blamed and not the person. I will never understand this mentality.

How many people would he have killed with a knife or a homemade bomb? I bet he wouldn't have hit 103 people.

 

[samsnee]

Such a shame to hear about this latest mass shooting and to see the gun being blamed and not the person. I will never understand this mentality.

No one is blaming the gun. People are blaming the laws that allow everyday citizens to have such easy access to these guns.

 

[DarkKnight]

I feel like a lot of the blood in Orlando is on the NRA's hands.

Forget Assault Rifle bans, their was a bill on the table after Sandy Hook to ban extended mags and it had 90% support from the people. The NRA got the Senate to crush it. Truly horrible.



How many people would he have killed with a knife or a homemade bomb? I bet he wouldn't have hit 103 people.

The AR-15 is NOT the only semi-automatic weapon that can do this much harm. There are Semi Automatic hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols etc that can have just as high of firing rate and magazines. People demonize the AR-15 because it is Black, it is labeled as a assault rifle, and it is a civilian model based off of a military weapon.

 

[DarkKnight]

No one is blaming the gun. People are blaming the laws that allow everyday citizens to have such easy access to these guns.

Whats wrong with owning one of these guns? I do, I own several firearms. and as I said before, I hope people realize that there are hunting rifles, shotguns and pistols that have the same fire rate and capacity as an AR-15. The AR-15 is only "scary" and "demonized" because that's how the media label it, it's black, its "tactical" its "assault". etc.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

The AR-15 is NOT the only semi-automatic weapon that can do this much harm. There are Semi Automatic hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols etc that can have just as high of firing rate and magazines. People demonize the AR-15 because it is Black, it is labeled as a assault rifle, and it is a civilian model based off of a military weapon.

Okay. I wasn't talking about the AR-15. I was talking about extended mags.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Whats wrong with owning one of these guns? I do, I own several firearms. and as I said before, I hope people realize that there are hunting rifles, shotguns and pistols that have the same fire rate and capacity as an AR-15. The AR-15 is only "scary" and "demonized" because that's how the media label it, it's black, its "tactical" its "assault". etc.

https://***********/nytimes/status/742309554315202562
The New York TimesVerified account
‏@nytimes
The vast majority of guns used in 16 recent mass shootings were bought legally http://nyti.ms/25WTBXn

 

[DarkKnight]

Okay. I wasn't talking about the AR-15. I was talking about extended mags.

I'm aware, that's why I also addressed the magazine comment in saying other fire arms are capable of the same fire rate and capacity magazines.
Generally the "high capacity" magazines are only linked with weopons labeled as "assault" weapons but that is not the case.

 

[DarkKnight]

https://***********/nytimes/status/742309554315202562
The New York TimesVerified account
‏@nytimes
The vast majority of guns used in 16 recent mass shootings were bought legally http://nyti.ms/25WTBXn

And your point? I agree 100% that the mass shootings are a horrible horrible act. but what does this picture prove? Even the guns were purchased legally in most cases as the articale says. even if you Ban guns 100% guess what. That wont solve the problem at all. There are countless guns out there. Did you know most states don't even have gun registry. so there is no database, there are MILLIONS of guns, to think banning them or banning high capacity magazines will solve the issue is just silly. That's doing nothing by taking things away from people that want a fair chance at protecting themselves and people around them. But I don't worry about gun banning like a lot of people do. Its the 2nd Amendment, they will never be banned. Sure there will be high capacity bans again, we have had them before. But all that does is take them off the shelf. people still own them.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

And your point? .

It is too easy and takes too little time to acquire a firearm. Period.

If you can't plan ahead to apply for a Firearm and have it take as long as a passport, then you don't need the gun. There are little reasons I can think of that one would need to acquire a firearm in less than a month's time.

 

[DarkKnight]

It is too easy and takes too little time to acquire a firearm. Period.

If you can't plan ahead to apply for a Firearm and have it take as long as a passport, then you don't need the gun. There are little reasons I can think of that one would need to acquire a firearm in less than a month's time.

I'm fine with a longer waiting period, we have had them before, I'd be fine with them again. I'm a law abiding citizen, I'm a sportsman, I'm a competitive shooter and a hunter. Even I am fine with this. I just want people to understand that all that does prolong the purchase of a NEW firearm from a New firearm dealer. Will that make a difference? possibly. But if you buy from and individual or even illegally (Which people unfortunately do all the time) the law has done nothing. Criminals will not follow laws.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I'm fine with a longer waiting period, we have had them before, I'd be fine with them again. I'm a law abiding citizen, I'm a sportsman, I'm a competitive shooter and a hunter. Even I am fine with this. I just want people to understand that all that does prolong the purchase of a NEW firearm from a New firearm dealer. Will that make a difference? possibly. But if you buy from and individual or even illegally (Which people unfortunately do all the time) the law has done nothing. Criminals will not follow laws.

Had the gun laws we have now been able to work, a few of those guys would have been declined the purchase of the firearm. Certainly the two Virginia guys would have been denied. The system is broke. The laws we do have don't work. The exchanging of guns between two private entities must be made illegal. Guns need to be registered so that we know where they are and who owns them and who is handing them to whom. If your AR-15 is registered to you, and you sell it to your buddy, you'd have to register that sale. If that gun is used in a crime and not registered, you should be on the hook.

That will push those to look to the black market for guns. But that is currently not needed. Making the guns harder to get would deter half of these lone wolf nut jobs. Making them resort to knives and bombs would also be a deterrent since knives are more personal and making a bomb is a bit scary.

The facts are that we do have gun controls. Those gun controls need to be enforced. We then should all move to ban extended magazines and make the sale of guns from individual to individual a much more formal process.

Those three steps would likely have saved lives. Perhaps the black market for guns becomes more accessible in the future with these steps, but we'll tackle that problem when we get to it.

These are suburban kids going to a local gun store to buy guns legally with the intent of using them in a commision of a crime. These are not gang bangers buying hot guns out of the back of a van in the ghetto.

It's past time for change. No one is coming for anyone's guns. We must make it harder for these maniacs from obtaining them.

 

[DarkKnight]

Had the gun laws we have now been able to work, a few of those guys would have been declined the purchase of the firearm. Certainly the two Virginia guys would have been denied. The system is broke. The laws we do have don't work. The exchanging of guns between two private entities must be made illegal. Guns need to be registered so that we know where they are and who owns them and who is handing them to whom. If your AR-15 is registered to you, and you sell it to your buddy, you'd have to register that sale. If that gun is used in a crime and not registered, you should be on the hook.

That will push those to look to the black market for guns. But that is currently not needed. Making the guns harder to get would deter half of these lone wolf nut jobs. Making them resort to knives and bombs would also be a deterrent since knives are more personal and making a bomb is a bit scary.

The facts are that we do have gun controls. Those gun controls need to be enforced. We then should all move to ban extended magazines and make the sale of guns from individual to individual a much more formal process.

Those three steps would likely have saved lives. Perhaps the black market for guns becomes more accessible in the future with these steps, but we'll tackle that problem when we get to it.

These are suburban kids going to a local gun store to buy guns legally with the intent of using them in a commision of a crime. These are not gang bangers buying hot guns out of the back of a van in the ghetto.

It's past time for change. No one is coming for anyone's guns. We must make it harder for these maniacs from obtaining them.

I do greatly agree I wish the system has worked better as far as the background checks are concerned.

There is also nothing wrong with private party to private party gun sales in my opinion IF THE BUYER has a CWP. Owning a CWP means that their background checks out routinely and must follow strict laws to maintain the CWP. Otherwise I have no problems with having to meet someone at gun dealer for them to run a background check for that buyer. As far as a gun registry is concerned, I have mixed emotions and mixed feeling on it, so I wont even bother with discussing that. But the high capacity magazines I don't see it doing anything just as it hasent in the past during other high capacity magazine bans. All it does is remove them from the store shelves. They would still be sold between private parties as banning high capacity magazines does not make them illegal to own. it just means they will no longer be sold in stores and manufacturers would only be allowed to sell the new fiream with a 10 rnd magazine vs say a 15 rnd.
Does that really make that much of a difference? 10 rnds? 20 rnds? 30 rnds? all a person has to do is tape two magazines together and boom high capacity magazine again.

 

[samsnee]

Unfortunately it only takes a few lazy gun sellers who only care about the bottom line to ruin it for the responsible ones.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Does that really make that much of a difference? 10 rnds? 20 rnds? 30 rnds? all a person has to do is tape two magazines together and boom high capacity magazine again.

Yes it makes a difference. Telling me that changing a magazine is as simple as continuing to pull a trigger is asinine. It takes more time. There is a chance of a mistake.

And if taping two magazines together is the same, what are we talking about then? Ban them.

 

[DarkKnight]

Yes it makes a difference. Telling me that changing a magazine is as simple as continuing to pull a trigger is asinine. It takes more time. There is a chance of a mistake.

And if taping two magazines together is the same, what are we talking about then? Ban them.

The gun is semi automatic, there is a break between each fired round. Flipping a magazine in any firearm with exposed magazines take a mere second. That's all I'm saying. Ban the high capacity magazines for all I care, I have several. It wont change anything other than some worries in some peoples heads. Besides, as I have said before, banning them does not make them illegal to own, it just means they wont be available in stores anymore an all newly produced handguns and rifles with magazines will be sold with a lower capacity magazine from the factory. A high capacity magazine will be easily accessible by several other means.

 

[samsnee]

The gun is semi automatic, there is a break between each fired round. Flipping a magazine in any firearm with exposed magazines take a mere second. That's all I'm saying. Ban the high capacity magazines for all I care, I have several. It wont change anything other than some worries in some peoples heads. Besides, as I have said before, banning them does not make them illegal to own, it just means they wont be available in stores anymore an all newly produced handguns and rifles with magazines will be sold with a lower capacity magazine from the factory. A high capacity magazine will be easily accessible by several other means.

I just don't understand this mentality of "people will still find a way to get them so what's the point?"

 

[DarkKnight]

Unfortunately it only takes a few lazy gun sellers who only care about the bottom line to ruin it for the responsible ones.

That's a another huge problem too.

If the piece of garbage that did this should not represent the intent of the entire Muslim community, Then why should he or a small minority of irresponsible gun owners represent the entire pro-gun community?