The Horror Thread - Part 1

[Heretic]

I saw a report Friday that they are working on a Smallville-esque show about Jason. Like, Crystal Lake's early years or something

 

[The Shape]

I thought he was great in the first one and I got the feeling he genuinely cared. But the second one didn't have much for him to do, aside from him acting all high and mighty after writing that book.

The first was one McDowell's best attempt at doing a Donald Pleasance impersonation, so no, I wasn't a fan. Even exact lines were repeated from the original. At least in H2, "*****ebag Loomis" was something new.

 

[Loki882]

McDowell's Loomis was NEVER a Donald Pleasance impersonation, he was very different in both movies. Heck, he even avoided watching the old films specifically to avoid mimicking Donald Pleasance.

 

[Victarion]

May the Lord continue to shine his light on James Wan and his talents.

Spoiler

But seriously, best Horror Director of the 21st Century? Who else has beaten him in the 2000s?

I guess you enjoyed Insidious 2?

 

[StarLord]

The first was one McDowell's best attempt at doing a Donald Pleasance impersonation, so no, I wasn't a fan. Even exact lines were repeated from the original. At least in H2, "*****ebag Loomis" was something new.

I don't think it was, and I would think McDowell would respect Donald enough not to copy him.

I liked the scenes with him and Michael in the institute. Certainly not something that was seen in the original.

 

[Man in the Suit]

How did you guys feel about McDowell's take on Loomis? Personally I liked his iteration of the character and his performance. It seemed like the first time McDowell had actually made an effort in years.

Loved him the first half of the first and "New Loomis" in the second movie. Zombie took the character in a great direction (as well as Laurie and the Brackets) with him being in denial. The H2 director's cut adds more to all the character development. Love that movie.

 

[Thundarr]

I saw a report Friday that they are working on a Smallville-esque show about Jason. Like, Crystal Lake's early years or something

I hope it's better than that Friday The 13th TV series which had NOTHING to do with the movies.

 

[Thundarr]

How did you guys feel about McDowell's take on Loomis? Personally I liked his iteration of the character and his performance. It seemed like the first time McDowell had actually made an effort in years.

I didn't like his take on the character at all. He played him as a bit of a deuche in Part 1, then as a total deuche in Part 2, which to me is NOT the way to portray Dr. Loomis. I'm not saying that McDowell should have copied Donald Pleasance's performance exactly, but at least stay true to the CHARACTER. I felt he didn't do that. In fact I felt that no one did that in either of RZ's Halloween movies, which is why I now avoid them at all costs.

 

[Loki882]

Loomis was somewhat egotistical in the first film, but there are probably a lot of scientists/professionals who are really egotistical in real life. When you get right down to it, it's still Loomis. He spent EVERY DAY with Michael for over a decade trying to help him, and he only gives up when he realizes that Michael CANNOT be helped. Then, when Michael escapes, Loomis buys a gun, goes to Haddonfield, warns the police, and then personally intervenes TWICE to save Laurie, and nearly dies in the process. I'm sorry, but how is he not true to the character, he absolutely IS. I didn't like what they did with him in H2, he was an *******, but he was ultimately pointless to the overall plot, you could have cut him out entirely and the movie wouldn't have changed all that much, and that bugs me more than his characterization.

 

[BH/HHH]

I hope it's better than that Friday The 13th TV series which had NOTHING to do with the movies.

Hey that tv series was fantastic, they never even wanted to call it Friday the 13th the TV series as it had nothing to do with Jason but the studio said they had too. They were then going to tie it in in a ways by having the Hockey Mask in the opening titles but weren't allowed too. I'm dure if they had we would have gotten an episode or two where the mask possess someone. Which thinking now would have been great set up for the awesome Eric Morse Friday the 13th novels.

As for a prequel TV show I really don't get how that would work. No Jason or Pam and what do you have really?

 

[Man in the Suit]

I didn't like what they did with him in H2, he was an *******, but he was ultimately pointless to the overall plot, you could have cut him out entirely and the movie wouldn't have changed all that much, and that bugs me more than his characterization.

Not true. That whole movie is about how the characters deal with what happened. Laurie spirals out of control, Annie Bracket becomes a recluse, Loomis is in denial, and Sheriff Bracket is caught in the middle. Everything collides at the end. Rob Zombie made a tragedy.

 

[redhawk23]

Many would indeed agree that Rob Zombie's directing was tragic turn for the franchise.

 

[Teelie]

As for a prequel TV show I really don't get how that would work. No Jason or Pam and what do you have really?

A lake already filled with dead bodies Jason never touched.

 

[The Shape]

McDowell's Loomis was NEVER a Donald Pleasance impersonation, he was very different in both movies. Heck, he even avoided watching the old films specifically to avoid mimicking Donald Pleasance.

I should have clarified and worded that differently. It was the second half of the script mimicking the original Loomis too much, to the point where he ceased to be an interesting character. There was too much copying in Zombie's remake and not enough re-imagining.

 

[The Shape]

I liked the scenes with him and Michael in the institute. Certainly not something that was seen in the original.

Still crap, in my eyes. Especially anything to do with Michael as a boy.

 

[BH/HHH]

The biggest problems with Rob Zombies Halloween movies was he felt the need to explore why Michael was the way he was. It was always most effective in the original, he's just simply evil no explanation and I much prefer that.

Probably didn't help that Zombie turned the whole family into crazy hillbillies either. He just made the usual garbage he makes. I was worried when he stayed on for the sequel and boy I was right to be cause he took it even farther away from what Halloween is.

 

[Thundarr]

Hey that tv series was fantastic, they never even wanted to call it Friday the 13th the TV series as it had nothing to do with Jason but the studio said they had too. They were then going to tie it in in a ways by having the Hockey Mask in the opening titles but weren't allowed too. I'm dure if they had we would have gotten an episode or two where the mask possess someone. Which thinking now would have been great set up for the awesome Eric Morse Friday the 13th novels.

As for a prequel TV show I really don't get how that would work. No Jason or Pam and what do you have really?

I'm sure if they had called it The 13th Hour (which I believe was the original title) or Warehouse 13 (which has essentially the same overall plot) I would have really enjoyed it. But when I saw a show listed in TV Guide as "Friday The 13th The Series", I was expecting something along the lines of Freddy's Nightmares, only about Crystal Lake and not Springwood. Instead I got something completely different, so I ignored it. I realize it was a studio decision, not the producers', but that doesn't make me feel any less cheated.

As for what the prequel series could be about? I don't know. If you go by the stories in the comics, the lake has been cursed since the white men decided to massacre the natives who lived in the area at the time. The shaman cursed the lake as his lifes blood poured into the water. Ever since then, anyone who settled by the lake has met with disaster. So there are decades, even centuries worth of stories which could be told. As long as they are about Crystal Lake, that's all that's really important in a Friday The 13th TV series.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Funny I don't think Malcolm copied Pleasance at all, but I still didn't care for his Loomis. I know McDowell respected the character a lot since he and Pleasance were friends before he died.

 

[Thundarr]

Loomis was somewhat egotistical in the first film, but there are probably a lot of scientists/professionals who are really egotistical in real life. When you get right down to it, it's still Loomis. He spent EVERY DAY with Michael for over a decade trying to help him, and he only gives up when he realizes that Michael CANNOT be helped. Then, when Michael escapes, Loomis buys a gun, goes to Haddonfield, warns the police, and then personally intervenes TWICE to save Laurie, and nearly dies in the process. I'm sorry, but how is he not true to the character, he absolutely IS. I didn't like what they did with him in H2, he was an *******, but he was ultimately pointless to the overall plot, you could have cut him out entirely and the movie wouldn't have changed all that much, and that bugs me more than his characterization.

Maybe it's just my interpretation of those scenes and not the intent of RZ or McDowell, but I got the impression that Loomis wasn't really interested in helping Michael. It seemed to me he was more interested in studying him than actually treating him. Then when he went to Haddonfield with a gun to stop him, it wasn't so much that he alone understood just what had escaped from Smith's Grove, but that he was covering his own ass.

Donald Pleasence's Dr Loomis was a selfless crusader trying to stop the human incarnation of pure evil. Malcolm McDowell's Dr Loomis was a selfish prick trying to save his book sales. BIG difference.

 

[Thundarr]

Still crap, in my eyes. Especially anything to do with Michael as a boy.

Agreed.

Chaos Comics' Halloween Issue #1 "Behind The Mask" did it SO much better.

 

[The Shape]

The biggest problems with Rob Zombies Halloween movies was he felt the need to explore why Michael was the way he was. It was always most effective in the original, he's just simply evil no explanation and I much prefer that.

Probably didn't help that Zombie turned the whole family into crazy hillbillies either. He just made the usual garbage he makes. I was worried when he stayed on for the sequel and boy I was right to be cause he took it even farther away from what Halloween is.

Giving Michael a typical white trash, serial killer background was one awful aspect of the remake. Aw, Michael mother's boyfriend was a mean *****ebag. Aw, his mom was a stripper. Aw, he was bullied at school. He liked to kill small animals. He kills his bully. Then, after his Halloween killing spree and a few stupid hospital scenes, he grows up to be a 7ft immortal killer with super strength! It just didn't make sense compared to the mystery and ambiguous quality of the original Halloween, where we didn't know his reasoning or the circumstances of his Smith's Groce confinement.

What bothered me even more, believe it or not, was the near scene-by-scene, quote-by-quote remake we got during the second half of the film, which only proves that Zombie's vision was the wrong one to take to the screen for a next generation Halloween series. The ending, which of course had to be more action packed and ridiculous than the original's purely suspenseful showdown, was absurd. I used to call it "Extreme Home Makeover: Michael Myers Edition", since he practically demolishes the house searching for Laurie. Zombie's Michael Myers lacked the methodical, skillful stalking of Carpenter's Michael and was instead mostly a brute.

So disappointing since a true remake/reimagining of Halloween could have been truly amazing. One that didn't both **** on the mythology of Michael Myers and copy all of Carpenter's key scenes (which paled in comparison) at the same time. One that didn't rely on excessive gore and jump-scares and had some actual suspense and sense of dread that builds slowly as the film progresses.

 

[culver3vlr22]

Easiest answer.... Don't remake Halloween. It should of never been done. Halloween and NOES are the 2 films that didn't need to be remade. Halloween because it's perfect and the greatest horror movie ever. Nightmare because no one can replace Robert England.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Giving Michael a typical white trash, serial killer background was one awful aspect of the remake. Aw, Michael mother's boyfriend was a mean *****ebag. Aw, his mom was a stripper. Aw, he was bullied at school. He liked to kill small animals. He kills his bully. Then, after his Halloween killing spree and a few stupid hospital scenes, he grows up to be a 7ft immortal killer with super strength! It just didn't make sense compared to the mystery and ambiguous quality of the original Halloween, where we didn't know his reasoning or the circumstances of his Smith's Groce confinement.

What bothered me even more, believe it or not, was the near scene-by-scene, quote-by-quote remake we got during the second half of the film, which only proves that Zombie's vision was the wrong one to take to the screen for a next generation Halloween series. The ending, which of course had to be more action packed and ridiculous than the original's purely suspenseful showdown, was absurd. I used to call it "Extreme Home Makeover: Michael Myers Edition", since he practically demolishes the house searching for Laurie. Zombie's Michael Myers lacked the methodical, skillful stalking of Carpenter's Michael and was instead mostly a brute.

So disappointing since a true remake/reimagining of Halloween could have been truly amazing. One that didn't both **** on the mythology of Michael Myers and copy all of Carpenter's key scenes (which paled in comparison) at the same time. One that didn't rely on excessive gore and jump-scares and had some actual suspense and sense of dread that builds slowly as the film progresses.

I would say a proper remake is in order but to be honest, I really don't care to see it happen at this point I think it's best to just leave it alone.

 

[jonathancrane]

Giving Michael a typical white trash, serial killer background was one awful aspect of the remake. Aw, Michael mother's boyfriend was a mean *****ebag. Aw, his mom was a stripper. Aw, he was bullied at school. He liked to kill small animals. He kills his bully. Then, after his Halloween killing spree and a few stupid hospital scenes, he grows up to be a 7ft immortal killer with super strength! It just didn't make sense compared to the mystery and ambiguous quality of the original Halloween, where we didn't know his reasoning or the circumstances of his Smith's Groce confinement.

What bothered me even more, believe it or not, was the near scene-by-scene, quote-by-quote remake we got during the second half of the film, which only proves that Zombie's vision was the wrong one to take to the screen for a next generation Halloween series. The ending, which of course had to be more action packed and ridiculous than the original's purely suspenseful showdown, was absurd. I used to call it "Extreme Home Makeover: Michael Myers Edition", since he practically demolishes the house searching for Laurie. Zombie's Michael Myers lacked the methodical, skillful stalking of Carpenter's Michael and was instead mostly a brute.

So disappointing since a true remake/reimagining of Halloween could have been truly amazing. One that didn't both **** on the mythology of Michael Myers and copy all of Carpenter's key scenes (which paled in comparison) at the same time. One that didn't rely on excessive gore and jump-scares and had some actual suspense and sense of dread that builds slowly as the film progresses.

RZH was really not that gory. Carpenter over-indulged in gore in H2, as part of his effort to pander to the market (along with injecting a Star Wars plotline where it was not needed.)

 

[redhawk23]

Easiest answer.... Don't remake Halloween. It should of never been done. Halloween and NOES are the 2 films that didn't need to be remade. Halloween because it's perfect and the greatest horror movie ever. Nightmare because no one can replace Robert England.

Its not even so much of a matter of replacing Robert Englund, it just a matter that doing a remake is such a waste in a franchise that allows for so much creativity.