The Horror Thread - Part 1

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Its not even so much of a matter of replacing Robert Englund, it just a matter that doing a remake is such a waste in a franchise that allows for so much creativity.
Honestly I though the Nightmare remake was one of the worst horror remakes ever made, and it had absolutely nothing to do with Jackie Earle Haley's portrayal of Freddy which I found could of been much better with a GOOD script.
 
There was a quote that I once heard, and I forget who said it. This person was asked why Hollywood didn't just remake BAD movies and do them better. His response was that since the originals sucked, people wouldn't be interested in seeing the remakes. Also, there have been good remakes. The most notable example of this is Al Pacino's Scarface, which was a remake, not many people know that.
 
Nightmare on Elm Street was basically the only horror remake of recent years that had a real chance at being interesting in its own right.
The idea of dreams, and dream worlds, coupled with the much higher calibre of special effects movies have these days could have made for a really imaginative, creepy new take on the material. The sky was the limit in regards to what they could have put on screen.

But, yeah, obviously nobody involved in making it thought like that.
 
My expectations were so high for the NOES remake and even after watching it 3 times opening weekend, I was truly disappointed.
 
While it was not a great film, I thought it was quite good. Jackie Earle Haley gave an unrivaled performance and thanks to it and the screenwriting, they finally made Freddy scary again. Make no mistake: I loved England black humor laced interpretation of the monster, but never found him scary, but deliciously hilarious. The reboot's Freddy had more in common with Freddy in the first film, than Freddy did in the sequels.
 
See that's where my issue lies, they kept promoting and talking up how scary they made Freddy again, and like I said I had no issue with JEH's Freddy but I didn't find anything in the film scary whatsoever. Dark, dingey, serious and gritty yes, but not scary at all.

The contrast of bright settings and characters in the original offset the darkness of Freddy so when he came on screen it took you to another place, a scary and evil place. The remake's characters were all so dark and depressed they fit right in with Freddy, no contrast means no scares imo.
 
Easiest answer.... Don't remake Halloween. It should of never been done. Halloween and NOES are the 2 films that didn't need to be remade. Halloween because it's perfect and the greatest horror movie ever. Nightmare because no one can replace Robert England.

See, I don't particularly agree. I'm not whole-heatedly against remakes. I appreciate and sometimes welcome new interpretations of good material.

In the case of Halloween, a remake that possessed high levels of ambience and suspense could have been incredible. We should have gotten something that, like the original, treated Michael Myers as The Shape of evil, a force of nature that operated with no foreseeable rhyme or reason. The scary thing about Carpenter's Halloween is that it appeared to be nothing more than a random stalking. No familial bloodlines introduced, per say. Instead, Zombie attempted to make Mochael out to be a real character with feelings and motivations. It was just incredibly misguided and felt more like a ****** sequel than a return to form for the franchise.

A hypothetical remake like the one I described wouldn't even have to utilize all of the characters from the original like Zombie's did, aside from Loomis, Laurie, and Michael. There was no ****ing need to have Lynda say "See anything you like?" again, or have Loomis recite his famous speech from the original. Things like that are what make a remake pointless.

This isn't the best example but it makes sense for my argument. Think about Disturbia and Rear Window. Disturbia is essentially a remake of Rear Window, but no quotes, characters, or specific moments are completely recreated. It had a different look and feel from Rear Window and it was updated for modern times. Despite all the differences, it still shared the same core ideas of the film they were basing it on. A Halloween remake that utilized the core principles of Carpenter's original, but still veered off into some unexplored territory, would have been sick.
 
There was a quote that I once heard, and I forget who said it. This person was asked why Hollywood didn't just remake BAD movies and do them better. His response was that since the originals sucked, people wouldn't be interested in seeing the remakes. Also, there have been good remakes. The most notable example of this is Al Pacino's Scarface, which was a remake, not many people know that.
An even better, more relevant example is The Thing. I mean the 1982 one. It's a remake of a movie from 1951, The Thing from Another World which in itself was based on the 1938 novella Who Goes There? None of these were bad but each successfully built up from the previous. The Thing from 2011 is decent but redundant so I wouldn't count it.

Remakes when done properly and with the right context of what it is you're remaking are fine. It's the blatant cash grabs based on old property that are either no longer relevant or are from the start unable to justify their existence that typically suck.
 
The Thing prequel felt like a remake of John Carpenter's The Thing. Carpenter atleast brought some fresh ideas to his remake of The Thing From Another World.

The Thing prequel needed a bit more fresh ideas and originality for me.
 
It did. It was too much like a cash grab remake right down to the ambiguous ending with Kate mirroring McCready and Childs. In that respect it's also a great example of when not to do a remake/sequel/prequel/reboot.
 
While it was not a great film, I thought it was quite good. Jackie Earle Haley gave an unrivaled performance and thanks to it and the screenwriting, they finally made Freddy scary again. Make no mistake: I loved England black humor laced interpretation of the monster, but never found him scary, but deliciously hilarious. The reboot's Freddy had more in common with Freddy in the first film, than Freddy did in the sequels.

You know, I never found Freddy to be overly campy.
 
Giving Michael a typical white trash, serial killer background was one awful aspect of the remake. Aw, Michael mother's boyfriend was a mean *****ebag. Aw, his mom was a stripper. Aw, he was bullied at school. He liked to kill small animals. He kills his bully. Then, after his Halloween killing spree and a few stupid hospital scenes, he grows up to be a 7ft immortal killer with super strength! It just didn't make sense compared to the mystery and ambiguous quality of the original Halloween, where we didn't know his reasoning or the circumstances of his Smith's Groce confinement.

What bothered me even more, believe it or not, was the near scene-by-scene, quote-by-quote remake we got during the second half of the film, which only proves that Zombie's vision was the wrong one to take to the screen for a next generation Halloween series. The ending, which of course had to be more action packed and ridiculous than the original's purely suspenseful showdown, was absurd. I used to call it "Extreme Home Makeover: Michael Myers Edition", since he practically demolishes the house searching for Laurie. Zombie's Michael Myers lacked the methodical, skillful stalking of Carpenter's Michael and was instead mostly a brute.

So disappointing since a true remake/reimagining of Halloween could have been truly amazing. One that didn't both **** on the mythology of Michael Myers and copy all of Carpenter's key scenes (which paled in comparison) at the same time. One that didn't rely on excessive gore and jump-scares and had some actual suspense and sense of dread that builds slowly as the film progresses.

Totally agree :up:

I hope someone will revisit the franchise and return it to its roots. Do you remember that writer who ad a treatment fr a new Halloween film and he did some mock video type thing to she what it would have been like?

RZH was really not that gory. Carpenter over-indulged in gore in H2, as part of his effort to pander to the market (along with injecting a Star Wars plotline where it was not needed.)

Have you watched the original Halloween 2? It's not that gorey at all. Also Carptenter may have put stuff in the script but it was Rick Rosenthal who directed it so he will have been the one who put the FX team to work with the finl product.

On the note of the original Halloween 2 outside of the first one that's my favourite of the series closely flowed by Halloween 4.

Also on the subject of remakes, NOES and Halloween didn't need remaking they just needed some fresh blood that maintained the integrity of the original films.
 
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See, I don't particularly agree. I'm not whole-heatedly against remakes. I appreciate and sometimes welcome new interpretations of good material.

In the case of Halloween, a remake that possessed high levels of ambience and suspense could have been incredible. We should have gotten something that, like the original, treated Michael Myers as The Shape of evil, a force of nature that operated with no foreseeable rhyme or reason. The scary thing about Carpenter's Halloween is that it appeared to be nothing more than a random stalking. No familial bloodlines introduced, per say. Instead, Zombie attempted to make Mochael out to be a real character with feelings and motivations. It was just incredibly misguided and felt more like a ****** sequel than a return to form for the franchise.

A hypothetical remake like the one I described wouldn't even have to utilize all of the characters from the original like Zombie's did, aside from Loomis, Laurie, and Michael. There was no ****ing need to have Lynda say "See anything you like?" again, or have Loomis recite his famous speech from the original. Things like that are what make a remake pointless.

This isn't the best example but it makes sense for my argument. Think about Disturbia and Rear Window. Disturbia is essentially a remake of Rear Window, but no quotes, characters, or specific moments are completely recreated. It had a different look and feel from Rear Window and it was updated for modern times. Despite all the differences, it still shared the same core ideas of the film they were basing it on. A Halloween remake that utilized the core principles of Carpenter's original, but still veered off into some unexplored territory, would have been sick.


For me as a huge halloween fan. I liked the use of dialogue from the original. I like most walked out of the theaters in 2007 pissed and angry at what zombie had done to the greatest horror movie of all time. Over Time I have grown to like and respect zombies attempt to remake halloween(I may be the only and I mean ONLY person who likes H2, the opening scene in the hospital is some of the best slasher filming I've ever seen)


I hate the none stop retconing halloween has. A full out remake was the best option at the time to get Michael on screen again. And I believe had zombie been able to make the first movie michaels origins and the 2nd movie the full remake I could like many just skipp the 1st film.

I would say what zombie did to halloween was to terrible, cults and busta rhymes sure dont make any other in the series much better.

I like hobo Michael it's the first real take on the character(how the hell he have such a ¿nice? New mask each film I for one think hobo Michael was the best thing zombie did. It's not good it's not great zombies halloween is just there.

80s slashers are what I love and his halloween remake and the Friday the 13th remake both had very 80s slasher feel to them , zombies more 70s horror. The NOES remake seemed to much to try and be a modern slasher which sucks.

It just sucks the only slasher movies to get released in theaters are remakes that would be my main problem. I love hatchet think its one of the most fun I've had watching a movie ever and it goes straight to DVD in 2007 wtf.


I keep saying this and I will say it forever... James waan isn't helping horror at all he's mainstreaming the most childish kind of horror.
 
The only writers out there who understand the Halloween Mythos are those behind the comic team: Stef Hutchinson and his co-writers.
 
For me as a huge halloween fan. I liked the use of dialogue from the original. I like most walked out of the theaters in 2007 pissed and angry at what zombie had done to the greatest horror movie of all time. Over Time I have grown to like and respect zombies attempt to remake halloween(I may be the only and I mean ONLY person who likes H2, the opening scene in the hospital is some of the best slasher filming I've ever seen)


I hate the none stop retconing halloween has. A full out remake was the best option at the time to get Michael on screen again. And I believe had zombie been able to make the first movie michaels origins and the 2nd movie the full remake I could like many just skipp the 1st film.

I would say what zombie did to halloween was to terrible, cults and busta rhymes sure dont make any other in the series much better.

I like hobo Michael it's the first real take on the character(how the hell he have such a ¿nice? New mask each film I for one think hobo Michael was the best thing zombie did. It's not good it's not great zombies halloween is just there.

80s slashers are what I love and his halloween remake and the Friday the 13th remake both had very 80s slasher feel to them , zombies more 70s horror. The NOES remake seemed to much to try and be a modern slasher which sucks.

It just sucks the only slasher movies to get released in theaters are remakes that would be my main problem. I love hatchet think its one of the most fun I've had watching a movie ever and it goes straight to DVD in 2007 wtf.


I keep saying this and I will say it forever... James waan isn't helping horror at all he's mainstreaming the most childish kind of horror.

Couldn't agree more with that comment in bod. I often change my mind on what's my favourites of particular franchises but when t does to Horror nothing's ever even come close to knocking John Carpenters off the top spot.
 
It still stands up to this day. I can watch JCs masterpiece everyday.

Can't wait to hear the commentary JC and JLC give on the new blu ray, it may be the biggest commentary I can remember.
 
At this point, I do wonder what is left to say? Outside of H25, there have been 2-3 in depth documentaries, atop of a mountain of interviews, behind the scenes extracta, and so on.
 
That is true what is left to say. But it's new and ill give my money to JLC talking about halloween any day of the week
 
JLC did her first panel not that long ago. It's on YouTube and it's pretty good. She's hilarious.
 
John Carpenters my favourite director of all-time, he made so many great films in the 80s
 
I should have clarified and worded that differently. It was the second half of the script mimicking the original Loomis too much, to the point where he ceased to be an interesting character. There was too much copying in Zombie's remake and not enough re-imagining.
I thought Zombie didn't want to do that at all and the studio made him.

Fully agree that showing any backstory on MM is NOT the way to go. Once you humanize him he loses something. One things for sure, leave a classic like Halloween alone. IMO any remakes or sequels just pale in comparison. Even some of the original part 2 is really lame.

I always wonder if JC would remake his own movie or what he would have done differently if he had a larger budget.

I'm a huge Hammer nerd and I've always heard that he wanted Cushing and Lee in Halloween.
 
JLC did her first panel not that long ago. It's on YouTube and it's pretty good. She's hilarious.
She also just did a brand new commentary track with Carpenter for the new 35th Anniversary Blu ray coming out next month.
 
Here are a list of remakes that I consider legitimately good movies in their own right:
-John Carpenter's The Thing.
-Scareface (Al Pacino version).
-The Crazies (Timothy Olyphant version).
-Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Donald Sutherland version).
-Dawn of the Dead.
-Friday the 13th (I liked it, can't help it).
-Piranha 3D.
-The Evil Dead (2013).
-Fright Night.
There are others, but those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.
 
Here are a list of remakes that I consider legitimately good movies in their own right:
-John Carpenter's The Thing.
-Scareface (Al Pacino version).
-The Crazies (Timothy Olyphant version).
-Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Donald Sutherland version).
-Dawn of the Dead.
-Friday the 13th (I liked it, can't help it).
-Piranha 3D.
-The Evil Dead (2013).
-Fright Night.
There are others, but those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

I'm with you on Friday the 13th, I loved it. Thought it was a great update and got more right than either the Halloween or NOES did .

If I were to add one to your list I'd add the Blob (1988), thought it was fantastic.
 
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