The Irredeemable ANT-MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

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Mistress Gluon said:
lol It's still fun. But Eric is just a hellhole of a person. If I were his friend, come back from the dead, I'd kill him. Then my ****e of a girlfriend, for willing to have sex on top of the plot I was put in two hours ago.
You call every female in comics a ****e.

It's always: "Niko is such a ****e!" or "Did you see how Kitty was stairing at Cyclops?! That ****e!" or "Janet is such a ****e for getting back together with Hank!"

You need to calm down and quit with the ****e-bashing. :o :cwink:
 
Muze said:
the advertising of HOWLING COMMANDOES was a red flag to me that it probably wouldn't be a good read. the art made the story incredibly hard to follow, as well.
At least they warned us that it was rubbish. ;) I just wish some better books had been promoted like that. At least IRON FIST is getting ads now.


as Kirkman described, he's just a really lazy guy. i think this is preferable to him being malicious like a Deadpool or the Hood. i'll be happy as long as he saves a few people occassionally. it's all that separates him from those other two characters. Eric looks after his own interests but those interests don't seem to include bank robbery or murder-for-hire. sure, he got an expensive free meal out of Beth. but it was hers to offer, at least.
Yeah, debates about Eric as a character take a turn when the creator himself does a summary. I agree with your assessment, he's not an out and out criminal but he is a lazy, selfish empowered human who is only a "hero" in the sense that he occasionally saves people and punches out nasty men, if he's in the mood, available, and/or can get something out of it.

just curious; mainly because Wolverine detects Eric and Nick before they arrive. he would know the difference between Nick and a LMD (Jessica Drew did).
The LMD thing and Wolverine's senses have been an issue a few times. Back during the 90's when Nick Fury was believed to have been killed by the Punisher, they had this huge funeral and Logan definately confirmed in "was him", although later they naturally said it was a LMD. They've been using those to have Fury escape death since the 60's. I suppose it wouldn't be too unreasonable to believe that SHIELD could make some LMD's that could fool even Logan, although it didn't in SECRET WAR. It's one of those continuity variable things. Some LMD's can "fool" him later for retconned plot convience and others can't, also for plot convience.

true but Eric did it by complete accident and was promptly squirted to the ground. he could have also crawled into his ear and just shouted really loud. that would have knocked him unconscious or, at least, thrown him off balance.
True, but punching an artery is F'ing hardcore.

try introducing them into A-List legacies. imagine how hard the next guy to step into Cap's boots is going to have to work. :woot:
You mean Winter Soldier? I bet. I mean, DC does that a lot. Their fans would never accept a new Batman or Superman, but a new Blue Beetle or Atom or even Green Arrow is okay, at least for a short while. Marvel is less frequent with their legacies but usually sticks to their guns, with some exceptions.

please. this isn't Scott Lang we're talking about here. there is nothing in the way of Greg returning. too much effort was spent in setting him up as a new hero (something marvel can't spare, at the moment).
I was surprised at his death and I do hope it is part of some "plan" for him, as the Watcher seemed to suggest. McDuffie is moving to FF so it's not like he's "outside their circle".

the other problem i was going to mention is that Eric is basically too new to appear anywhere but his own title. no other writers are going to throw Kirkman a bone and have him make a guest appearance, at least.
Probably not. Although as he is a little simular to the Hood I could imagine Vaughan doing fine with him.

true. Cyke used to be my favorite character; back when all i knew about were the x-titles. it's a shame what's happened to him.
Cyclops is written well in ASTONISHING and other books since, just that moment was just extreme superdickery. Eric at least has been consistant as a jerk, but Cyclops was supposed to at least LIKE Jean as a person even if their marriage ended before her death. It smacked of him being needlessly vindictive because Morrison was for his own ex. To compare, it isn't impossible for Spider-Man and MJ to divorce in terms of characters, but it WOULD be out of character if Peter made out with Felicia on MJ's grave.

yeah but most comic readers can forgive stuff like threatening humanity. it's stabbing friends in the back that they can't overlook.
It only hurts when it is made more personal and down to Earth, much like in MAN OF STEEL when Luthor became seen as really nasty not after trying to kill Superman or take over Metropolis endless times, but by jerking around innocent waitresses with false promises (he would offer them $1 million to live with him for a year, claim to give them 1 hour to decide, and then split and gloat about how the waitress would be emoting about that for the rest of her life; all as a game to pass time).

And yeah, some of those pages are funny
 
Mr. Green said:
You call every female in comics a ****e.

It's always: "Niko is such a ****e!" or "Did you see how Kitty was stairing at Cyclops?! That ****e!" or "Janet is such a ****e for getting back together with Hank!"

You need to calm down and quit with the ****e-bashing. :o :cwink:

see now i totally disagree. i don't think there's enough ****e-bashing on these boards. i want to be the first to say that Eric O'Grady is a dirty ****e; a dirty ****e with antennae. there, i said it! :hyper:

Mr. Green said:
I remember somebody mentioning Ant Man (not O'Grady) beat Thor and some others with Wasp or something. I'm thinking Avengers 112, or maybe that's 121 or maybe neither. Can someone help me out? Thanks.

Pym in Avengers 161
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05815547774 161
or
are you talking about Lang beating the Absorbing Man and Titania?

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=05815547774 275
 
I think I heard about the second one, but I'll probably check out both. I just wanted to see Ant Man smack around some of the Marvel heavy weights.

Thanks Muze! :yay: :up:
 
Dread said:
At least they warned us that it was rubbish. ;) I just wish some better books had been promoted like that. At least IRON FIST is getting ads now.

it's funny how Adi Granov is so into Marvel Monsters now. just imagine what he could have done for the Howling Commandoes.

Dread said:
Yeah, debates about Eric as a character take a turn when the creator himself does a summary. I agree with your assessment, he's not an out and out criminal but he is a lazy, selfish empowered human who is only a "hero" in the sense that he occasionally saves people and punches out nasty men, if he's in the mood, available, and/or can get something out of it.

i hate to admit it but it's pretty much how i would be w/ those powers. of course the nature of the powers would make it all too tempting to snoop on others. it's different than super-strength and heat vision; although i would immediately go to the gym to show off with the first power. i'm just trying to imagine if there's a worse power Eric could have wound up with/one that would push him further to the dark side.

Dread said:
The LMD thing and Wolverine's senses have been an issue a few times.

i'll chalk it up to it varying according to the plot. it would help if i knew exactly when the real Fury went awol.

Dread said:
True, but punching an artery is F'ing hardcore.

no doubt. that guy's going to be in the hospital for a while.


Dread said:
I was surprised at his death and I do hope it is part of some "plan" for him, as the Watcher seemed to suggest. McDuffie is moving to FF so it's not like he's "outside their circle".

definatley not. i think he's got that "small town cousin of the Fantastic Four" vibe about him. he could hang around under the pretense that Reed is exploring the changes in his powers.

Dread said:
Probably not. Although as he is a little simular to the Hood I could imagine Vaughan doing fine with him.

Runaways writer, correct? yeah, he does cynical pretty well.


Dread said:
It only hurts when it is made more personal and down to Earth, much like in MAN OF STEEL when Luthor became seen as really nasty not after trying to kill Superman or take over Metropolis endless times, but by jerking around innocent waitresses with false promises (he would offer them $1 million to live with him for a year, claim to give them 1 hour to decide, and then split and gloat about how the waitress would be emoting about that for the rest of her life; all as a game to pass time).

wow. that's just sick. i guess you don't really know a villain until you've seen them in their downtime. can't wait for Eric to jerk around his first waitress. that reminds me; i wonder what Beth does for a living? she looked like she might have been returning from work when she got mugged.

Dread said:
And yeah, some of those pages are funny

i like how his antennae have become substitutes for facial expressions. i hope that every issue isn't him spying on naked chicks because that's just creepy. :yay:
 
If...IF Ant-Man's book gets the axe, what team would you guys wanna see him on or well his solo is still running what would you wanna see him on? I'd like to see him on a team with Deadpool.....or better yet Ant-Man III and Deadpool book.
 
Kool-Aid said:
If...IF Ant-Man's book gets the axe, what team would you guys wanna see him on or well his solo is still running what would you wanna see him on? I'd like to see him on a team with Deadpool.....or better yet Ant-Man III and Deadpool book.

good questions Kool-Aid.


1ST QUESTION:

i'm not sure that there's a team out there for Ant-Man, yet. Cap's side won't take him. Tony's side sure as h*ll don't want him. maybe the Fantastic Four could put up with him but that would an awkward fit. he might be too old for the New Warriors. and we have no idea if there will be a new Defenders/Champions and what kind of team it will be. the most i could hope for is occassional guest-appearances in other titles. he's an easy character to have pop up. if his series does end, my hope is that Kirkman doesn't kill him. maybe Eric could be incarcerated for awhile and show up later working for the government against his will (similar to how Julia Carpenter found herself a part of Freedom Force). i could imagine Eric being on a team of govt sanctioned anti-heroes, although Thunderbolts has sort of stolen that position.


2ND QUESTION:
i don't think Eric and Wade would get along as teammates. i could imagine Deadpool being a coach of some sort to him (& maybe the Hood) but that guy (Wade) is just too unpredictable. not that he's a favorite character or anything (and i've already had this discussion with another poster) but i seriously think that Freedom Ring would have been the perfect character to share a title with Ant-Man. why? because they are exact opposites. Curtis' first thought after getting was ring was that people needed saving and it was his responsibility (as a guy with powers) to do that. Eric's was that he needs this costume to survive and spy on womenz. Curtis was gay and seeking a monogamous relationship. Eric's a heterosexual hornball who doesn't seem to understand loyalty or fidelity. i think Freedom Ring's quirkyness and Eric's jerkiness could have floated a decent ongoing.

P.S. i'm not talking about a team-up, either. i'm talking about the book being split so that you can follow the adventures of both characters. but maybe they could both live in the same apartment complex to bridge the gap.
 
Mr. Green said:
You call every female in comics a ****e.

It's always: "Niko is such a ****e!" or "Did you see how Kitty was stairing at Cyclops?! That ****e!" or "Janet is such a ****e for getting back together with Hank!"

You need to calm down and quit with the ****e-bashing. :o :cwink:

lol I hardly doubt there will be any luck for your comment there.

So long as I draw breath, I shall name people ****e as they deserve it.
 
Muze said:
it's funny how Adi Granov is so into Marvel Monsters now. just imagine what he could have done for the Howling Commandoes.
Imagine what a good writer and a good concept could have done, too. :rolleyes:

i hate to admit it but it's pretty much how i would be w/ those powers. of course the nature of the powers would make it all too tempting to snoop on others. it's different than super-strength and heat vision; although i would immediately go to the gym to show off with the first power. i'm just trying to imagine if there's a worse power Eric could have wound up with/one that would push him further to the dark side.
Many fans wouldn't want to admit it, but Eric is perhaps more typical of how a person would act after gaining powers than, say, Daredevil or many heroes. True, Eric was a lazy jerk before he got the Ant-suit, but the point is that instead of suddenly gaining a "sense of duty" and whatnot, he's just using the suit to get what he wants, basically. He's not a supervillian but he's not a hero either. At least not in the typical sense, which is why it works. Again, with a 4th rank franchise like ANT-MAN, it was this kind of approach that would give it any hope of success in this market and I'm glad Kirkman took it. I'll enjoy the ride.

i'll chalk it up to it varying according to the plot. it would help if i knew exactly when the real Fury went awol.
That would mean more cohesion. They can barely keep CW together.

no doubt. that guy's going to be in the hospital for a while.
Fo' sure.

definatley not. i think he's got that "small town cousin of the Fantastic Four" vibe about him. he could hang around under the pretense that Reed is exploring the changes in his powers.
Possibly. I wonder how he would work in a revived Champions roster? I mean they were the first real team that let in Ghost Rider of all people (aside for the Legion of Monsters with Man-Thing and Werewolf By Night). The irony of course would be that Ghost Rider is even more honorable, just more outwardly spooky.

Runaways writer, correct? yeah, he does cynical pretty well.
Indeed, RUNAWAYS drips with that stuff.

wow. that's just sick. i guess you don't really know a villain until you've seen them in their downtime. can't wait for Eric to jerk around his first waitress. that reminds me; i wonder what Beth does for a living? she looked like she might have been returning from work when she got mugged.
Who knows. As you hinted, "over the top" villiany may be more expansive, but it is the down to earth stuff that can be more pivotal. I mean Spider-Man faced villians who tried to take over the city/world many times, but when one happened to kill his favorite blonde fiance, a far lessor crime compared to city conquest if you want to be technical about it (endangering millions vs. killing one), it naturally cemented that in (plus, that sort of thing was rare at the time).

i like how his antennae have become substitutes for facial expressions. i hope that every issue isn't him spying on naked chicks because that's just creepy. :yay:
Yeah, it works better than having eyes on a mask move.

As for which team I could see ANT-MAN III on, I could either see him lying and whining his way onto a fed-sponsored team (not the Thunderblts, I mean like a teak of pro SHRA types) simply by connivingly telling them what they want to hear. I mean, if Hill, Stark & Co. can embrace convicted killers, world conquors and Neo-Nazi's as storm troopers, Eric looks downright saintlike. Aside for that, maybe a revamped Champions, or the Defenders.
 
Muze said:
good questions Kool-Aid.


1ST QUESTION:

i'm not sure that there's a team out there for Ant-Man, yet. Cap's side won't take him. Tony's side sure as h*ll don't want him. maybe the Fantastic Four could put up with him but that would an awkward fit. he might be too old for the New Warriors. and we have no idea if there will be a new Defenders/Champions and what kind of team it will be. the most i could hope for is occassional guest-appearances in other titles. he's an easy character to have pop up. if his series does end, my hope is that Kirkman doesn't kill him. maybe Eric could be incarcerated for awhile and show up later working for the government against his will (similar to how Julia Carpenter found herself a part of Freedom Force). i could imagine Eric being on a team of govt sanctioned anti-heroes, although Thunderbolts has sort of stolen that position.

Yeah, I was thinking about it and I really don't think theres a team out there for him either, although that doesn't mean they can't make up a new team with a new name that he could be apart of. I really don't think he'll be killed off.



Muze said:
2ND QUESTION:
i don't think Eric and Wade would get along as teammates. i could imagine Deadpool being a coach of some sort to him (& maybe the Hood) but that guy (Wade) is just too unpredictable. not that he's a favorite character or anything (and i've already had this discussion with another poster) but i seriously think that Freedom Ring would have been the perfect character to share a title with Ant-Man. why? because they are exact opposites. Curtis' first thought after getting was ring was that people needed saving and it was his responsibility (as a guy with powers) to do that. Eric's was that he needs this costume to survive and spy on womenz. Curtis was gay and seeking a monogamous relationship. Eric's a heterosexual hornball who doesn't seem to understand loyalty or fidelity. i think Freedom Ring's quirkyness and Eric's jerkiness could have floated a decent ongoing.

P.S. i'm not talking about a team-up, either. i'm talking about the book being split so that you can follow the adventures of both characters. but maybe they could both live in the same apartment complex to bridge the gap.


I love it, The Unpredictable and Irredeemable Adventures of Deadpool and Ant-Man. lol I dunno I think they would be good together, because there was a few issues in Deadpool's run where Deadpool shrunk Rhino down to Ant-Man's size and they were hilarious togther like that. I could easily see Ant-Man in the Rhino's part and him tripling the comedy that Rhino and Deadpool had. It really was great, I recommend this issue highly. If I can find a few scans I'll post them if anyone wants to see them.






Also I really loved the choosing sides part that featured Ant-Man, which I think was the best story in that book.

Heres my favorite part.
 
Also another great part. Ant-Man tells some girl to hide under a car and that its totally safe to hide there, then the first panel on the next page you see She Hulk lifting up a car next to the ones shes under.lol


 
Eric, like a macho male, only seems interested in saving girls. If you're a dude in trouble around him you may be F'd. ;)
 
Kool-Aid said:
Also another great part. Ant-Man tells some girl to hide under a car and that its totally safe to hide there, then the first panel on the next page you see She Hulk lifting up a car next to the ones shes under.lol



neat pics. that was a really cool moment. i wish he had the chance to interact with other marvel heroes/take part in Civil War but understand why he didn't.
 
Me neither, but thats mostly because I wanna see him hit on female superheros.
 
Muze said:
good questions Kool-Aid.


1ST QUESTION:

i'm not sure that there's a team out there for Ant-Man, yet. Cap's side won't take him. Tony's side sure as h*ll don't want him. maybe the Fantastic Four could put up with him but that would an awkward fit. he might be too old for the New Warriors. and we have no idea if there will be a new Defenders/Champions and what kind of team it will be. the most i could hope for is occassional guest-appearances in other titles. he's an easy character to have pop up. if his series does end, my hope is that Kirkman doesn't kill him. maybe Eric could be incarcerated for awhile and show up later working for the government against his will (similar to how Julia Carpenter found herself a part of Freedom Force). i could imagine Eric being on a team of govt sanctioned anti-heroes, although Thunderbolts has sort of stolen that position.

If any team. I think that they could somehow put him in the Young Avengers, as Yellow-Jackets young couterpart. Since Stature is there for Scott Lang.


Muze said:
2ND QUESTION:
i don't think Eric and Wade would get along as teammates. i could imagine Deadpool being a coach of some sort to him (& maybe the Hood) but that guy (Wade) is just too unpredictable. not that he's a favorite character or anything (and i've already had this discussion with another poster) but i seriously think that Freedom Ring would have been the perfect character to share a title with Ant-Man. why? because they are exact opposites. Curtis' first thought after getting was ring was that people needed saving and it was his responsibility (as a guy with powers) to do that. Eric's was that he needs this costume to survive and spy on womenz. Curtis was gay and seeking a monogamous relationship. Eric's a heterosexual hornball who doesn't seem to understand loyalty or fidelity. i think Freedom Ring's quirkyness and Eric's jerkiness could have floated a decent ongoing.

P.S. i'm not talking about a team-up, either. i'm talking about the book being split so that you can follow the adventures of both characters. but maybe they could both live in the same apartment complex to bridge the gap.

That would've been a really cool idea.
 
Kool-Aid said:
Me neither, but thats mostly because I wanna see him hit on female superheros.

which would result in him getting hit by female superheroes. :woot: my short-list of superheroes i want to see Eric get beaten up by...

Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk
Hellcat
Black Widow
Arachne
Invisible Woman
Superia & the Femizons

and i wouldn't mind Eric beating up Humbug, also. :hyper:

supermarvelman said:
If any team. I think that they could somehow put him in the Young Avengers, as Yellow-Jackets young couterpart. Since Stature is there for Scott Lang.

i would feel sorry for the other Young Avengers, in this case. he's not exactly the best role model. think of the children!!
 
Dose he have some level of superhuman strength? That rock punch kinda made it seem that way.
 
Kool-Aid said:
Dose he have some level of superhuman strength? That rock punch kinda made it seem that way.

size-changing is a way around having enhanced strength. because he's smaller and retains his regular strength, his punches are more damaging. i'm no scientist so i can't explain it correctly. getting hit by an ant-sized man with regular strength would be a lot like getting shot by a bullet, i figure. i bet that his armor took some of the brunt from the rock as well.
 
So, he could punch....lets say Spider-Man...if he punched him he'd feel it more then if he (Ant-Man) was normal sized? Would he be able to hurt Hulk?
 
Kool-Aid said:
So, he could punch....lets say Spider-Man...if he punched him he'd feel it more then if he (Ant-Man) was normal sized?

yes, definately. of course, the other Ant-Men used a trick where they'd hit someone while they were growing back to full-size. in other words, they were adding momentum to their punchs. but Spidey's spider sense would probably warn him about an attack like that.

Kool-Aid said:
Would he be able to hurt Hulk?

heck no. he might be able to annoy Hulk by kicking him in the brain but i wouldn't recommend it. :woot:


anyways, i was thinking of possible characters who could put up with Eric; maybe form a small team (make-shift League of Losers). all i've got so far are...



Dusk
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/DuskCassie.jpg

Hood
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/hoodmax1.jpg

Terror
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Marvtu016.jpg

&

Sleepwalker
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/E_SLEE001CVR_proof5.jpg

i'm not sure about the last two but they are outcasts; what i'm looking for. they'd be a small group of fugitives from registration who Cap's side won't take (or they just don't feel comfortable going to Cap's side).
 
Can he get smaller or is a 1/3 of a inch the smallest he can get? I know I'm asking alot of questions, but its because I've never really read any Ant-Man comics of the other ones, he's now become a fav of mine and you seem to know alot about them.:) So, my bad if I'm bugging you (pun intended).;)
 
Kool-Aid said:
Can he get smaller or is a 1/3 of a inch the smallest he can get? I know I'm asking alot of questions, but its because I've never really read any Ant-Man comics of the other ones, he's now become a fav of mine and you seem to know alot about them.:) So, my bad if I'm bugging you (pun intended).;)

lol! you can't bug me when it comes to Ant-Man. while he usually operates at half-an-inch (those must be large ants he rides), both the first and second Ant-Man have reached microscopic size. this normally takes a second 'hit' of the pym particle gas and can also cause physical strain to their bodies, apparently. but any time you see an instant shrink, it's half-an-inch. i guess that's what the body is comfortable with. i have no idea what Eric's new suit is capable of though. maybe it minimizes the strain.








Ant-man recommended reading(s) list:

Avengers 195-196
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05815547774%20195%20SIGNED
&
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=05815547774%20196


Avengers 223
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05815547774%20223

Avengers #62
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05819410642%2062

Avengers #76
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05819410642%2076

Heroes for Hire #6
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=40146787124%206

Iron Man #133
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/42856589026.133.GIF

Marvel Two-In-One #87
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=52075323508%2087

&
Marvel Comics Presents #131
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=51598259310%20131

 
I dont think they have addressed the details yet, but Dr. Pym was making improvements, so I think that he will probably have the potential to go smaller, maybe closer to what the Atom can do.
 
Some bad news, according to November Sales figures that Comics Continuum got in:

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0612/15/sales.htm

In October, ANT-MAN sold within the Top 65. Now, it sold at #122. Past the Top 100 is usually death for an ongoing title, epecially by a second issue. It seems that the CW CHOOSING SIDES mini hasn't given it a boost. It outsold POWERS, BEYOND #5 and NEXTWAVE, but the latter is already cancelled, and the others are a mini and an Icon imprint. I expected ANT-MAN's numbers to drop, but damn, it feel 59 slots in one month. Thanks a lot, average comic buyers. We may be lucky to see past issue #6 at this rate. I know I called it, but I hate being right about bad stuff.

I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
 
Dread said:
Some bad news, according to November Sales figures that Comics Continuum got in:

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0612/15/sales.htm

In October, ANT-MAN sold within the Top 65. Now, it sold at #122. Past the Top 100 is usually death for an ongoing title, epecially by a second issue. It seems that the CW CHOOSING SIDES mini hasn't given it a boost. It outsold POWERS, BEYOND #5 and NEXTWAVE, but the latter is already cancelled, and the others are a mini and an Icon imprint. I expected ANT-MAN's numbers to drop, but damn, it feel 59 slots in one month. Thanks a lot, average comic buyers. We may be lucky to see past issue #6 at this rate. I know I called it, but I hate being right about bad stuff.

I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

this is kind of old news. most of Kirkman's titles start off like this. and most shops over order the first issue of any title. what you should look for is whether it drops more after issue #4. i'm not particularly worried about it being canceled. the series is being heavily talked up at jinxworld and newsarama.
 

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