The Jared Leto is The Joker(?) Thread

[BH/HHH]

He is a proper Joker, it's comments like that I don't get at all.

 

[The Joker]

You don't get it because you think the Joker is supposed to be in love with Harley and cares about her. You are factually wrong on that. A proper Joker doesn't care a jot about Harley and would leave her to die in a heartbeat.

 

[Erzengel]

 

[BH/HHH]

You don't get it because you think the Joker is supposed to be in love with Harley and cares about her. You are factually wrong on that. A proper Joker doesn't care a jot about Harley and would leave her to die in a heartbeat.

I'm not actually but you keep saying that.

Look at the episode of BTAS (or was it TNBA) where she tries to kill him he falls back in love with her at the end. Again though this version obviously wouldn't leave her to die in the vat scene because he dove back in after her. Even so he left her to die in the car scene. He's unpredictable sometimes he does things you wouldn't expect.

 

[The Joker]

What a loving relationship t:

I'm not actually but you keep saying that.

Yes, you are.

Look at the episode of BTAS (or was it TNBA) where she tries to kill him he falls back in love with her at the end.

No idea what episode you are talking about. I can point you to episodes where;

- He left her to die with the rest of Gotham when he tried to nuke it with a bomb (Harlequinade)
- Where he kicked her out of his gang and didn't care a jot to get her back (Harley & Ivy)
- Where he left her to rot in Arkham and replaced her (Joker's Millions)
- Where in pushed her out a 10 storey window as shown in the gifs above (Mad Love)

Joker is not in love with Harley. He pretends he cares. He fakes affection. Nothing more. Again this is the factual summation of their relationship in Harley's quintessential story, Mad Love;

He plays her. He manipulates her.

Again though this version obviously wouldn't leave her to die in the vat scene because he dove back in after her.

One of many reasons why he is not a proper Joker.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm not actually but you keep saying that.

Look at the episode of BTAS (or was it TNBA) where she tries to kill him he falls back in love with her at the end. Again though this version obviously wouldn't leave her to die in the vat scene because he dove back in after her. Even so he left her to die in the car scene. He's unpredictable sometimes he does things you wouldn't expect.

[YT]47PwcEQm6pg[/YT]

You're referring to this scene. Which could be construed as Joker manipulating Harley so that she wouldn't kill him.

What about the episode, Joker's Millions, where he leaves Harley to to rot in Arkham.

Or in the episode Wild Cards, where Harley is tricked into leading Batman to Joker's hideout and he knocks her out.

 

[Erzengel]

One of many reasons why he is not a proper Joker.

I call it the Hot Topicization of Harley and Joker. Making teens think they are this loving couple in order to sell more merch.

 

[BH/HHH]

[YT]47PwcEQm6pg[/YT]

You're referring to this scene. Which could be construed as Joker manipulating Harley so that she wouldn't kill him.

What about the episode, Joker's Millions, where he leaves Harley to to rot in Arkham.

Or in the episode Wild Cards, where Harley is tricked into leading Batman to Joker's hideout and he knocks her out.

Again he's unpredictable what's to say he wouldn't jump in one time and not another?

Anyway I'm not falling into this argument, said my piece and I am done.

 

[The Joker]

I call it the Hot Topicization of Harley and Joker. Making teens think they are this loving couple in order to sell more merch.

It was deffo the reason why Joker was put in the movie. Marketing. He sells himself and is instant audience attraction.

[YT]47PwcEQm6pg[/YT]

You're referring to this scene. Which could be construed as Joker manipulating Harley so that she wouldn't kill him.

What about the episode, Joker's Millions, where he leaves Harley to to rot in Arkham.

Or in the episode Wild Cards, where Harley is tricked into leading Batman to Joker's hideout and he knocks her out.

Yeah, that's the episode where he left her to blow up with the rest of Gotham. Was hilarious when Robin outed that fact in front of her;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkcvRI-J8hw&t=0m15s

 

[Wildcard]

I'm not actually but you keep saying that.

Look at the episode of BTAS (or was it TNBA) where she tries to kill him he falls back in love with her at the end. Again though this version obviously wouldn't leave her to die in the vat scene because he dove back in after her. Even so he left her to die in the car scene. He's unpredictable sometimes he does things you wouldn't expect.

Leto's Joker as he portrayed it (and not as it was spliced together) would definitely leave Harley to die. Had WB not gotten cold feet, his reactions to Harley would've been TAS come to life.

But even with the cuts, I still don't get a sense that he's "in love" with her so much as he views her as she's his property.

Even with that said, I think it's false to say Joker doesn't care at all about Harley. If that were the case, why spend so much time rebuilding her in his image and the like? It's not all manipulation. Again, it may not be in a normal way, but he feels something for her. Even Mark Hamill has admitted this.

 

[BH/HHH]

Leto's Joker as he portrayed it (and not as it was spliced together) would definitely leave Harley to die. Had WB not gotten cold feet, his reactions to Harley would've been TAS come to life.

But even with the cuts, I still don't get a sense that he's "in love" with her so much as he views her as she's his property.

Even with that said, I think it's false to say Joker doesn't care at all about Harley. If that were the case, why spend so much time rebuilding her in his image and the like? It's not all manipulation. Again, it may not be in a normal way, but he feels something for her. Even Mark Hamill has admitted this.

Wasn't him diving in after her in the Vat scene in the first trailer? That would imply that it was always there. I see more that he leaves her to die when he's gotta get away cause Batman is after him or whatever. In that vat scene he didn't have to rush off from Batman or whoever.

If people don't like the Joker doing things like that it's absolutely fine but it doesn't make Leto's Joker not a proper Joker.

 

[The Joker]

The omitted material doesn't count. What was left in the final cut is the only version that is valid. That is not a proper Joker.

He shows way too much emotion to her for him to view her as an object, and not be in love with her. He is depressed when she is missing. He cries out when she falls out of the helicopter. He jumps into the vat of chemicals rather than leave her to die etc.

He doesn't get her to be in his image at all. That was her choice. He didn't go through some chemical wedding baloney in the comics or BTAS. Harley went out and dressed herself up as a clown to impress him - "Knock, knock puddin'. Say hello to your new and improved Harley Quinn".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nss0ghyCrm0&t=3m25s

 

[BH/HHH]

I don't agree with your logic, because it hasn't been done that way before it's not proper? So what about the first time they did something in the comics that hadn't been done before with the character were they not proper versions either? What about the constant reinventions of these characters, they're all valid if they draw everything from the comics? Sorry just not buying it at all. It's subjective whether you like something or not but it doesn't make it any less valid.

 

[Erzengel]

By that rational, then Berry's Catwoman is a proper Catwoman.

 

[The Joker]

It's wrong because it goes against the whole nature of their relationship. You can do things differently and still stay true to the spirit of a characterization or a character relationship.

The rubbish we were served up in SS doesn't do that. It's the antithesis of the Joker/Harley relationship. From lovesick Joker, to Harley being more crazier and fearless than him, to Harley imagining married life with the Joker as being all normal, with normal looking kids and a normal looking Jared Leto, when she should be imagining married life with him as something crazy and loony like this;

Having her imagine their dream life together as being all normal shows she doesn't love him exactly as he is and would rather he be normal. They made a total balls up of the Joker/Harley dynamic, and didn't understand it at all.

 

[BH/HHH]

I disagree

 

[shauner111]

So if Batman eats Killer Croc in the first film of the reboot, and two scenes later he starts yelling out to the skies that he's going to eat every Gotham citizen (criminal or not) because that's what he was always supposed to do with his life......then i guess that would be a valid interpretation of Batman. Just because it's new? Right?

Well I respectfully disagree, I do agree the story wouldn't change as his story was a side story. But comic books have side stories all the time and I usually enjoy that aspect of comic books. Also as I said he was a supporting character to her in the flashbacks so he needed to be there. I loved the imagery and performance of Leto so I'm happy with what we got. The additional Harley chases Joker scene for example is one of my favourite Joker scenes put to film, he seems so fed up with her and I love how he tries to warn the trucker not to get too close. Typical Joker no idea what he's gonna do or say. The end scene where he breaks in to a rescue Harley is awesome too. The film gave me many great Joker moments.

I don't think he was out of character at all either. This was the first time we saw this version of the Joker so how can anyone say what is in and out of characater for him? That's projecting your version on him.

I think he served his purpose well in the film as a supporting characater to Harley's arc in the film.

For me, those two Joker scenes you mentioned were awful. The one with Harley and the bike is probably the one that made me feel embarrassed the most when i watched the extended cut, because his acting is so bad and over the top in that scene. Thank god that was cut from the theatrical. Well, what difference does it make, they're both similar cuts.

Even the rest of the Joker flashbacks weren't necessary. They could have said all of this through one scene of exposition and got it over with instead of randomly throwing him into this movie. I would have rather seen Leto make his debut in Affleck's solo Bat film. Using Suicide Squad to plant the Joker seed and hype him up. Maybe by then Ben would have been the creator of Leto's Joker as far as design and characterization goes, so we would not have to see the terrible tattoo's and chains.

We never saw how or why Harley fell in love with him, by the way. So showing those scenes was a pointless waste of time and money.

 

[BH/HHH]

So if Batman eats Killer Croc in the first film of the reboot, and two scenes later he starts yelling out to the skies that he's going to eat every Gotham citizen (criminal or not) because that's what he was always supposed to do with his life......then i guess that would be a valid interpretation of Batman. Just because it's new? Right?

For me, those two Joker scenes you mentioned were awful. The one with Harley and the bike is probably the one that made me feel embarrassed the most when i watched the extended cut, because his acting is so bad and over the top in that scene. Thank god that was cut from the theatrical. Well, what difference does it make, they're both similar cuts.

Even the rest of the Joker flashbacks weren't necessary. They could have said all of this through one scene of exposition and got it over with instead of randomly throwing him into this movie. I would have rather seen Leto make his debut in Affleck's solo Bat film. Using Suicide Squad to plant the Joker seed and hype him up. Maybe by then Ben would have been the creator of Leto's Joker as far as design and characterization goes, so we would not have to see the terrible tattoo's and chains.

We never saw how or why Harley fell in love with him, by the way. So showing those scenes was a pointless waste of time and money.

Not even remotely what is aid.

In any case I do not wish to get into a discussion with you because they always turn out the same way. So no thanks, I'll keep my opinion and you can have yours.

 

[shauner111]

I think the pattern here is that you like what you like (which is fine) but then you never want to discuss anything if the other person disagrees. So you discuss it a little bit and feed the other person enough to get a meaty response/post out of them, and then you immediately back out. And so it always ends with "well, i don't want to do this anymore! i just like what i like!"

 

[BH/HHH]

I think the pattern here is that you like what you like (which is fine) but then you never want to discuss anything if the other person disagrees. So you discuss it a little bit and feed the other person enough to get a meaty response/post out of them, and then you immediately back out. And so it always ends with "well, i don't want to do this anymore! i just like what i like!"

Actually I just can't be bothered having the same arguments that people keep having and secondly I have had past issues with you specifically and I have no desire to discuss this subject with you. The reason I stopped the chat with the Joker was that I was simply going to be repeating myself and I did not want to go around in circles simple as. End of the say if I like something and someone else doesn't you have to just agree to disagree in the end cause you aren't going to change each other's minds. That's all there is to it, I said my reasons and I'm done.

 

[Wildcard]

Wasn't him diving in after her in the Vat scene in the first trailer? That would imply that it was always there. I see more that he leaves her to die when he's gotta get away cause Batman is after him or whatever. In that vat scene he didn't have to rush off from Batman or whoever.

If people don't like the Joker doing things like that it's absolutely fine but it doesn't make Leto's Joker not a proper Joker.

The vat scene has always been there but that isn't my point. I was illustrating that there are still instances of him showing that he doesn't care as much as others try to make it seem like he does. He took her there to get rid of her, and then decided to jump in after her.

Even if you look at his facial expressions leading up to her diving in, he was very much annoyed with her, especially when you count in the scene of her chasing him down on the motorcycle.

And if we're going to say Leto's Joker isn't a "proper" Joker because of the slight deviations made, then neither is Nicholson or Ledger for that matter. But as it so happens, they all are.

Jared's Joker, sans the tattoos, imo is about the closest we've gotten thus far in live action to a version that I feel stepped straight out of the comics.

I still don't get how taking Quinn from Waller negates that.

 

[BH/HHH]

The vat scene has always been there but that isn't my point. I was illustrating that there are still instances of him showing that he doesn't care as much as others try to make it seem like he does. He took her there to get rid of her, and then decided to jump in after her.

Even if you look at his facial expressions leading up to her diving in, he was very much annoyed with her, especially when you count in the scene of her chasing him down on the motorcycle.

And if we're going to say Leto's Joker isn't a "proper" Joker because of the slight deviations made, then neither is Nicholson or Ledger for that matter. But as it so happens, they all are.

Jared's Joker, sans the tattoos, imo is about the closest we've gotten thus far in live action to a version that I feel stepped straight out of the comics.

I still don't get how taking Quinn from Waller negates that.

I feel like you may have misunderstood me because I am agreeing with you.

 

[shauner111]

Actually I just can't be bothered having the same arguments that people keep having and secondly I have had past issues with you specifically and I have no desire to discuss this subject with you. The reason I stopped the chat with the Joker was that I was simply going to be repeating myself and I did not want to go around in circles simple as. End of the say if I like something and someone else doesn't you have to just agree to disagree in the end cause you aren't going to change each other's minds. That's all there is to it, I said my reasons and I'm done.

You've had this Leto Joker argument before? Not trying to be sarcastic.

 

[shauner111]

The vat scene has always been there but that isn't my point. I was illustrating that there are still instances of him showing that he doesn't care as much as others try to make it seem like he does. He took her there to get rid of her, and then decided to jump in after her.

Even if you look at his facial expressions leading up to her diving in, he was very much annoyed with her, especially when you count in the scene of her chasing him down on the motorcycle.

And if we're going to say Leto's Joker isn't a "proper" Joker because of the slight deviations made, then neither is Nicholson or Ledger for that matter. But as it so happens, they all are.

Jared's Joker, sans the tattoos, imo is about the closest we've gotten thus far in live action to a version that I feel stepped straight out of the comics.

I still don't get how taking Quinn from Waller negates that.

What makes Leto's Joker closer to the comics than Nicholson or Ledger?

 

[Wildcard]

I feel like you may have misunderstood me because I am agreeing with you.

That last bit wasn't directed at you.