The Jared Leto is The Joker(?) Thread

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Jared's Joker, sans the tattoos, imo is about the closest we've gotten thus far in live action to a version that I feel stepped straight out of the comics.

I still don't get how taking Quinn from Waller negates that. :loco:

I think most peoples points are based on the TAS, Joker never cares about anyone but himself and only seems to treat Harley as help and leaves her out to dry on more than one occasion. The only time he shows affection for her either seems to get out of her killing him OR to play with her emotions.
 
I think most peoples points are based on the TAS, Joker never cares about anyone but himself and only seems to treat Harley as help and leaves her out to dry on more than one occasion. The only time he shows affection for her either seems to get out of her killing him OR to play with her emotions.

That is definitely true, I won't argue with that.

But those referring to Leto's Joker as lovesick & saying he "can't function" without Harley is just all wrong. I understand not liking the portrayal but those assertions are far from correct.
 
That is definitely true, I won't argue with that.

But those referring to Leto's Joker as lovesick & saying he "can't function" without Harley is just all wrong. I understand not liking the portrayal but those assertions are far from correct.

He tries to rescue her twice and with considerate effort? How is that not lovesick?
 
If she's been locked up for a while maybe he just really wants to get jiggy with her, after all he does say the grape soda is on ice and he has a bear skin rug waiting. :cwink:
 
He tries to rescue her twice and with considerate effort? How is that not lovesick?

Because he views her as being his and considering he's a career criminal wouldn't want her to be used by the government?

That would be a good reason. :cwink:
 
Did someone poke you in the eye, Wildcard? :o
 
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Because he views her as being his and considering he's a career criminal wouldn't want her to be used by the government?

That would be a good reason. :cwink:

That's not how I interpret it and I just watched the Joker scenes. He spares no expense to get to her. Kidnapping and blackmailing anyone. He comes off as a lover looking for his mate. In no way did I ever get the feeling, it was more about property and not about a twisted love affair.
 
Correct. He shows way too much emotion to her for him to view her as an object, and not be in love with her. He is depressed when she is missing and doesn't know where she is or what is going on. He cries out in anguish when she falls out of the helicopter. He jumps into the vat of chemicals rather than leave her to die etc. He even gets dressed up for her when he goes to rescue her so he can impress her.

Those are not the actions of someone who just likes to own an object.
 
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There are some legit Joker criticisms..

Then I'm seeing some very nitpicky things...

He saves her. I had no problem with that. I wish the dialogue was better beforehand (I did like the surrender line)

Why are people upset about a Joker that has conflicted feelings for Harley?

He ultimately left her for dead again when they took that dive in water.

Months/years? pass and suddenly he's breaking down without his toy in Harley.

Are people really upset about them taking those chances and giving us something different?

I'll agree with everyone that his character needed better execution, but I see nothing wrong with the intent.

I think some are overreacting about his care for Harley. However, that is the problem some were worried about before the film. That Harley and Joker needed their own film to truly establish the dynamics of their relationships first.
 
He didn't leave her for dead when they dived into the water. He left her for Batman to rescue. Batman was right on them, and he knew Batman would save her. That's why he dove into the water in the first place. To give himself a chance to escape while Batman was distracted saving Harley.

Who says it's months/years before he tries to get her back? Or that he had conflicted feelings for her? His feelings were consistent all through the movie.

People are upset at them portraying the character relationship as something it's not. There's nothing wrong with trying something different as long as it stays true to the spirit of the characters. This didn't.

E.g. have you ever seen Joker so protective of Harley that he killed someone just because they disrespected her? "God help anyone who disrespected the queen".

EDIT; btw you guys seen the big news? Affleck is no longer directing this movie; http://variety.com/2017/film/news/ben-affleck-the-batman-will-not-direct-1201971566/

He always said he would as long as the script was good. How many directors is that now who have been scrapped in the DCEU?
 
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Joker didn't seem conflicted at all in Suicide Squad about Harley...?
 
He didn't leave her for dead when they dived into the water. He left her for Batman to rescue. Batman was right on them, and he knew Batman would save her. That's why he dove into the water in the first place. To give himself a chance to escape while Batman was distracted saving Harley.

Who says it's months/years before he tries to get her back? Or that he had conflicted feelings for her? His feelings were consistent all through the movie.

People are upset at them portraying the character relationship as something it's not. There's nothing wrong with trying something different as long as it stays true to the spirit of the characters. This didn't.

E.g. have you ever seen Joker so protective of Harley that he killed someone just because they disrespected her? "God help anyone who disrespected the queen".

EDIT; btw you guys seen the big news? Affleck is no longer directing this movie; http://variety.com/2017/film/news/ben-affleck-the-batman-will-not-direct-1201971566/

He always said he would as long as the script was good. How many directors is that now who have been scrapped in the DCEU?

I think that's three that I can think of. The two for Flash, and then Ben Affleck for Batman.
 
That's not how I interpret it and I just watched the Joker scenes. He spares no expense to get to her. Kidnapping and blackmailing anyone. He comes off as a lover looking for his mate. In no way did I ever get the feeling, it was more about property and not about a twisted love affair.

If you choose to look at it that way then sure, it's easy enough to take that interpretation and run with it, even if it's less than accurate.
 
Because he views her as being his and considering he's a career criminal wouldn't want her to be used by the government?

That would be a good reason. :cwink:

That's quite the reach. He obviously actually loves her, not just as an object. Paul Dini said as much after he saw the film. He said "he actually loves her" and was moved by that.
 
He is a proper Joker, it's comments like that I don't get at all.

:up: I like him. There's potential for him to be truly great. Hopefully he's in "The Batman" and Jared has better material to work with. As for Harley, I think he loves her as his creation. We clearly see that he's annoyed by her when she chases him on the bike, but that changes once he transforms her. Nothing wrong with him caring for her, even in his own sick and twisted way.

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The "lines" of the Joker.

(Arkham therapy scene)
"Dr. Quinzel, I live for these moments with you, what do ya got?"
"So thoughtful. There's something you could do for me, Doctor."
"I need a machine gun."
Insert huge metallic grin
--------------------–------------------------------------------------------------ (Arkham raid/Harley Torture scene)
Enters Arkham room, waving arms
"What do we have here?"
transition to him standing over Harley
"What? Oh, I'm not gonna kill ya. I'm just gonna hurt ya really, really bad."
------------–------------------------------------------------------------(Monster-T club scene)
"Are ya sweet talkin' me?
"Ha-ha-ha. I love this guy, he's sooooo intense!"
"Oh that she is. The fire in my loins, the itch in my crotch! The one, the only, the infamous Harley Quinn!"
"Oooh, come to daddy."
"Listen, you are my gift to this handsome HUNKA HUNKA! You belong to him now!"
"You don't want no beef? You don't want no beef? You don't want no beef?"
"Are you enjoying yourself?"
"That's right!"
--------------------–------------------------------------------------------------(Batman chase scene)
"Ooh, we've got company!"
--------------------–------------------------------------------------------------- (Finding Harley/Weapons scene) "Where is she?"
"Bring the car around, we're going for a drive."
-------------------------------------------------------------(Grigg's intimidation scene)
"Blah blahblah blahblah blah blah. All that chit-chat's gonna getcha hurt."
"I can tell you meant that!"
Sits on Grigg's lap, strokes his face
"You're gonna be my friend."
--------------------–----------------------------------------------------------(Nanotech raid scene)
Grabs nanotech gun
"Ooh, this looks neat!"
Stabs guy with said nanotech gun
------------–----------------------------------------------------------(Chemical wedding scene)
"Question. Would you die for me?"
"That's too easy."
"Would you- would you live for me? Hmm?"
Covers Harley's mouth with his smile tattoo
"Careful...DO not say this oath thoughtlessly! Desire becomes surrender, surrender becomes ..POWER."
"Do you want this?"
"Say it...say it. Saaay it. Prettyprettyprettyprettyprettypretty..-"
"Mmm, God you're so... good!"
--------------------–---------------------------------------------(Helicopter/rooftop scene)
Speaking over the intercom to the professor that is disarming Harley's nanobomb
"Professooor, could you PICK UP THE PACE?!"
"Come on baby.."
"Oh you know I'd do anything for you.."
"By the way, I've got some grape soda on ice and a bearskin rug waitin'."
"Huh? "
"This bird is baked. Okay honey, it's me and you!"
--------------------–--------------------------------------------------------------- (Ending breakout scene)
"Let's go home."
-Joker, Suicide Squad
--------------------–--------------------------------------------------------------
The Therapy scene showcased their initial relationship.
The Torture scene showcased how everything changed, including Harley herself.
The Club showcased the Joker's status but more importantly, his public relationship with Harley.
The Chase scene elaborated on their separation and Harley's imprisonment.
The Weapons scene was him tracking her and discovering the presence of Argus. (Not specifically)
The interrogation scene was showcased the Joker at work, flexing his status and intimidating someone simply by being himself. Being manipulative, being him.
Nanotech Raid scene showed off his resourcefulness, tracing the bomb back to the company and confronting the scientist(Who's wife he already had in jeapordy) that would eventually deactivate Harley's bomb. Guns blazing, chaos afoot, much like the Arkham raid.
The Chemical Wedding scene solidified their relationship, the final step in the Joker's seduction, the completion of her origin. The silver tongued Joker is a lethal one after all, taking advantage of her dependency.
The Helicopter scene mainly showcased the interest between the two after a long time of separation, the damaging of a naturally chaotic relationship as the Joker seemingly dies.
The Final scene was pure greatness and gave Harley a reason to be out and about.
The purpose for dissecting those scenes was to elaborate on how the Joker's main purpose in the film was to perpetuate Harley's growth as a character, as well as their relationship. Yes, his personality is also highlighted multiple times but this is why he made the most of the time he was apparently given. I can say I am excited for a film that focuses on this Joker as a whole.
EDIT: Some context, fixed quotes, added scene interpretations.
 
If you choose to look at it that way then sure, it's easy enough to take that interpretation and run with it, even if it's less than accurate.

It's more of a stretch to say he did it because she's property when the scenes said everything to the contrary.
 
They don't, really. He's clearly annoyed by her in the motorcycle sequence and wants her to go away (even tells her to directly) in addition to trying to get rid of her at Ace Chemicals. Oh and don't forget the torture he inflicted when he escaped Arkham.

I'll never understand those trying to make it seem like something it's not by suggesting he was just over the hills in love with her when he wasn't. She was his creation: that's it.

I can't even take this complaint seriously anymore.
 
Oh come on be fair, you claimed there's a bias against Letoker because people don't like tattoos. That's what you call a silly complaint considering two other characters in SS, one of them being Harley, have tattoos and not being slammed for it.

Harley had not become his Harley Quinn in the motorcycle scene either. She was still just Dr. Quinzel. The chemical bath scene was her true transformation. The moment he jumped into that chemical bath with her instead of leaving her to die was the moment he became whipped lovesick Joker for his Harley Quinn.
 
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