The Jared Leto is The Joker(?) Thread

[TheVileOne]

They don't, really. He's clearly annoyed by her in the motorcycle sequence and wants her to go away (even tells her to directly) in addition to trying to get rid of her at Ace Chemicals. Oh and don't forget the torture he inflicted when he escaped Arkham.

I'll never understand those trying to make it seem like something it's not by suggesting he was just over the hills in love with her when he wasn't. She was his creation: that's it.

I can't even take this complaint seriously anymore.

Are these not scenes that weren't even in the theatrical cut? I mean how can you not understand it when the scenes you are talking about was not in the cut that most people actually saw.

 

[Erzengel]

Deadstroke already posted all the Joker's lines.

"Come on baby.."
"Oh you know I'd do anything for you.."
"By the way, I've got some grape soda on ice and a bearskin rug waitin'."
"This bird is baked. Okay honey, it's me and you!"

I don't know how else I can describe affection.

 

[Wildcard]

Didn't say he didn't show affection, I said he's not lovesick or, as others have stated, that it's not true he can't function without her.

Are these not scenes that weren't even in the theatrical cut? I mean how can you not understand it when the scenes you are talking about was not in the cut that most people actually saw.

Oh, so now these scenes don't count because they weren't in the T-Cut (despite the fact that the same people who saw the T-Cut have seen them as well)? And the fact that everyone keeps going "only what made it into the film counts" but when that is taken into account it doesn't count because it wasn't in the T-Cut? Seriously? Seriously?

 

[Erzengel]

Well if enough people are saying it, then maybe the same conclusion is being drawn.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It's sad that Gotham's Joker is better than Leto's...

Leto tried to completely do his own thing when he should've paid tribute to Jokers past while still forging a new path.

His laugh is horrible. Worst laugh for any Joker ever. I'm so curious if we'll get to see this Joker again at all.. The DCEU is in a crappy place, and Leto's a big reason for that. Recasting would be a smart move, it would show that WB is listening to the negative response.

The overwhelming response to Leto has been meh to negative. I don't really see how he can improve his performance without a complete overhaul on his take... I hate to say that but it's true. There were some good things in his performance but his natural instincts in that performance were very off the mark. I want to like him, and I do like some of the scenes but I can't help but think they could get someone better.

 

[Luke234]

It's sad that Gotham's Joker is better than Leto's...

Leto tried to completely do his own thing when he should've paid tribute to Jokers past while still forging a new path.

His laugh is horrible. Worst laugh for any Joker ever. I'm so curious if we'll get to see this Joker again at all.. The DCEU is in a crappy place, and Leto's a big reason for that. Recasting would be a smart move, it would show that WB is listening to the negative response.

The overwhelming response to Leto has been meh to negative. I don't really see how he can improve his performance without a complete overhaul on his take... I hate to say that but it's true. There were some good things in his performance but his natural instincts in that performance were very off the mark. I want to like him, and I do like some of the scenes but I can't help but think they could get someone better.

Yeah but people will hate the new actor as well. Also, what's the point when people hated Affleck, Cavill, Eisenberg etc?

 

[shauner111]

Leto and Eisenberg were simply annoying. I wouldn't say it's bad acting. It's just annoying.

 

[Wildcard]

Yeah but people will hate the new actor as well. Also, what's the point when people hated Affleck, Cavill, Eisenberg etc?

One word: Bandwagon.

 

[TheVileOne]

Oh, so now these scenes don't count because they weren't in the T-Cut (despite the fact that the same people who saw the T-Cut have seen them as well)? And the fact that everyone keeps going "only what made it into the film counts" but when that is taken into account it doesn't count because it wasn't in the T-Cut? Seriously? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Why are you so upset? It's not my fault those scenes didn't make it in.

 

[shauner111]

It's an extended cut. It's not really the film everyone is supposed to see. It's more for fans.

Now, the Ultimate Cut is Snyders directors cut before it was edited for the theatrical release. So I would count BvS' UC as THE cut of the film. Hence "ultimate".

 

[Wildcard]

That being said, the Extended Cut still counts. The scenes made it into the film. Whether theatrical or not, they can be accounted for in the discussion. The argument can only be fairly made if we're talking material that wasn't included in either version.

 

[shauner111]

I don't mind talking about it btw. It's not like they were deleted scenes just thrown onto a second disc of a Blu Ray.

 

[gdw]

Are these not scenes that weren't even in the theatrical cut? I mean how can you not understand it when the scenes you are talking about was not in the cut that most people actually saw.

Not to mention, they ALL happen BEFORE the turning point. Ace Chemicals is the last of those scenes, chronologically, and it's only at the very END of that scene that Joker just BEGINS to act like he cares about her.

It's every scene AFTER the ones he listed wherein Joker is portrayed as "lovesick."

 

[gdw]

That being said, the Extended Cut still counts. The scenes made it into the film. Whether theatrical or not, they can be accounted for in the discussion. The argument can only be fairly made if we're talking material that wasn't included in either version.

Um, no. While it's one thing to discuss them, it's another to suggest they are now canonical, especially when material left OUT of a film can contradict what was left in.

Case in point, we KNOW that the helicopter scene was shot VERY differently than what was shown on screen. It was FILMED such that Joker gets outraged with Harley, again, and throws her out to kill her.
In the film, it was re-edited to completely change this, and thus, the portrayal of their relationship, and the Joker himself.

As we are, generally speaking here, talking about the injustice done to the portrayal of the Joker, the entire POINT is what was IN the theatrical cut.

So, the only purpose discussing the deleted/extended material serves is to illustrate that the studio made the EXPLICIT decision to change his portrayal to one where he legit cares about her.

Also, as I pointed out in my previous post, every scene you referenced occurs BEFORE he "realises" is "feelings" for her, and every scene that ACTUALLY is relevant to the alleged "lovesick" portrayal occurs AFTER these scenes.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah nobody is saying he's lovesick as soon as the film begins. So that's a bad argument.

 

[The Joker]

Um, no. While it's one thing to discuss them, it's another to suggest they are now canonical, especially when material left OUT of a film can contradict what was left in.

Case in point, we KNOW that the helicopter scene was shot VERY differently than what was shown on screen. It was FILMED such that Joker gets outraged with Harley, again, and throws her out to kill her.
In the film, it was re-edited to completely change this, and thus, the portrayal of their relationship, and the Joker himself.

As we are, generally speaking here, talking about the injustice done to the portrayal of the Joker, the entire POINT is what was IN the theatrical cut.

So, the only purpose discussing the deleted/extended material serves is to illustrate that the studio made the EXPLICIT decision to change his portrayal to one where he legit cares about her.

Also, as I pointed out in my previous post, every scene you referenced occurs BEFORE he "realises" is "feelings" for her, and every scene that ACTUALLY is relevant to the alleged "lovesick" portrayal occurs AFTER these scenes.

Well said

 

[Wildcard]

Um, no. While it's one thing to discuss them, it's another to suggest they are now canonical, especially when material left OUT of a film can contradict what was left in.

They're still up for discussion, however. They're still fair game, and in this case, they actually don't contradict what was left in.

Case in point, we KNOW that the helicopter scene was shot VERY differently than what was shown on screen. It was FILMED such that Joker gets outraged with Harley, again, and throws her out to kill her.
In the film, it was re-edited to completely change this, and thus, the portrayal of their relationship, and the Joker himself.

That's a completely different circumstance, however. I'm not talking about scenes that got cut and the original context with which they were filmed. I'm talking about something that actually got added back in, be it "canonical" or not. It's still there.

I don't mind talking about it btw. It's not like they were deleted scenes just thrown onto a second disc of a Blu Ray.

My point exactly. Thank you, sir.

 

[TheVileOne]

The extended cut scenes don't really redeem the film because they don't count. It's a separate cut of the movie that most people did not watch or see.

 

[hellblazer103]

Plus it's genuinely worse than what was in the theatrical cut, even if it's just a few more seconds or so worth of stuff.

 

[Wildcard]

The extended cut scenes don't really redeem the film because they don't count. It's a separate cut of the movie that most people did not watch or see.

What does most people seeing it have to do with our discussion here, though? That's right, next to nothing.

 

[The Guard]

How can it not count when the extended cut, is itself, more or less a separate film?

 

[TheVileOne]

Why does that make it count suddenly? The version people have a problem with is the theatrical version.

I'm not sure what your stance is here Guard. You are a very smart and intelligent poster here. The problem people have is Joker's depiction in the theatrical cut. You can't deflect and excuse the way the character was executed by pointing out the extended cut as some piece of redemption.

Just like in The Avengers, there was this great three-minute scene with Captain America sort of setting the tone for him being the man out of time and his sense of loneliness and isolation in the modern world. It's fantastic work. Evans puts in a great performance in it. But we never saw that scene in the theatrical cut. All we can do is lament that it didn't get put in.

 

[Wildcard]

How can it not count when the extended cut, is itself, more or less a separate film?

Because people are so fixed on their set narrative that they're willing to disqualify anything that goes against said perspective, even if it blatantly counts and contradicts what they're asserting. It counts towards that bias we were discussing earlier.

 

[Reek]

it doesn't matter what other people saw... it matters what you saw... if the extended cut redeems it FOR YOU... then no vile person can say otherwise.

that should be the end of the conversation

 

[King23DC]

Suicide Squad, Hot Topic BF Joker characterization sucks.

Leto's Joker performance sucks. Theatrical or extended cut.

Jared Leto himself, sucks.

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2016/08/jared-leto-bad-actor