The Dark Knight The Joker's background?

[The Joker]

Ebert loved Spider-Man 2 and TDK.

He has my respect as far as his taste in comic book movies go.

 

[El Payaso]

I liked TDK and SM2 too. But his flaws as a critic must be considered too.

 

[Mister H.]

Spiderman 2 is garbage.

 

[The Joker]

But Spider-Man 2 is awesome

 

[ALP]

He said the Joker's scars were made by his father. Is that right because he said it?

You miss the point.

Not quite. Some of you are twisting his words.

His Joker draws power from the actual inspiration of the character in the silent classic “The Man Who Laughs” (1928). His clown's makeup more sloppy than before, his cackle betraying deep wounds, he seeks revenge, he claims, for the horrible punishment his father exacted on him when he was a child.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080716/REVIEWS/55996637

 

[El Payaso]

The man critizised Kickass based on his personal moral views, and indirectly critizises those who liked the movie (or found it satisfyingly faithful). Give me a break.

 

[ALP]

The man critizised Kickass based on his personal moral views, and indirectly critizises those who liked the movie (or found it satisfyingly faithful). Give me a break.

Yeah but some of you are saying he said things that he did not say.

And he's gotten old, give him a break. It's not like I think he is infallible lol, there are many many reviews of his that I disagree with. He thought Burton's Batman movies were just okay...I can agree with some of his points on B'89 but he completely missed out on the masterful poetry of Batman Returns.

But hey, I'm sure you and Ebert both agree on how bad Schumacher's films are and the usage of Robin

 

[El Payaso]

Yeah but some of you are saying he said things that he did not say.

And he's gotten old, give him a break. It's not like I think he is infallible lol, there are many many reviews of his that I disagree with. He thought Burton's Batman movies were just okay...I can agree with some of his points on B'89 but he completely missed out on the masterful poetry of Batman Returns.

But hey, I'm sure you and Ebert both agree on how bad Schumacher's films are and the usage of Robin

Yes, sometimes he's right, sometimes he's plain wrong, he's not infallible and now and then he critizises movies because of the completely wrong reasons. That's why I said he shouldn't be taken seriously. That doesn't mean you can't read it and agree/disagree with him. But I don't think of him much more than I do about many other critics.

 

[Oddzball]

A point to consider: In 1940 it was pretty easy to not have fingerprints on file. As time passess and the Joker fits in more along the lines of a man born 30 to 50 years ago, it's more difficult to have someone who has not been fingerprinted.

Options for today. The Pre-Joker's recprds were erased by the Feds. Witness protection, some black ops activity. And the very few people who'd know what he did are covering their asses since Joker has gone Ultra Rogue.

He's not from this dimension, slipped over from some parallel to a universe whre he nver was born. Alternate: He's from rthe future, an artifically created human built on medical records. He's sent back in tiem, programmed kill crazy to kill those history in his era says were killed by the Joker.

On a few occasions, a Catwoman story arc for example, he has some laws of physics breaking tracking device on her. He has some sort of super patron watching his ciontinuity.

 

[Mister Meddle]

If you want to be technical, the Joker's origin explained in the Killing Joke was verified by Batman in Detective Comics 168 although it's not part of the current continuity. However in Batman Under the Hood (not the movie) the Joker revealed he used the Red Hood identity in the past, which is linked to the origin provided in the Killing Joke and Batman 168. I guess the beauty of it is.... it is however you'd like to look at it.

 

[AnnAsakura]

al comes down to what he says: 'If I had a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice'

 

[The Question]

Well, one thing that was pointed out to me is that many of The Joker's mannerisms in The Dark Knight are common mannerisms for people who recently stopped taking anti-psychotic medication alltogether after being on a regular dossage. So, there's some evidence that he was receiving regular treatment for his mental illness shortly before the events of the film.

 

[AnnAsakura]

mmm yeah. And it's kind of ironic Ledger was taking pills cause his mind was always working and he was not able to sleep

 

[p4poetic]

Spiderman 2 is garbage.

Covering my eyes and ears right now.

 

[tnr105]

Ebert loved Spider-Man 2 and TDK.

He has my respect as far as his taste in comic book movies go.

He also has stated he doesn't like Mark Hamill's Joker voice.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/motpanniv/backstage/siskelebert.php

So he's not all that wonderful

 

[The Joker]

He also has stated he doesn't like Mark Hamill's Joker voice.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/motpanniv/backstage/siskelebert.php

So he's not all that wonderful

Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but where exactly does he say that in that link? I don't see him mentioning the Joker at all there....

 

[Travesty]

He also has stated he doesn't like Mark Hamill's Joker voice.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/motpanniv/backstage/siskelebert.php

So he's not all that wonderful

That was Siskel, and not Ebert who said that.

Siskel: There's more, including The Joker who frankly was better when Jack Nicholson played him in the first movie or Caesar Romero in the cartoon show on TV. I don't like this Joker's voice.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

This is just a random theory I have about the Joker’s past, but I think he was in Arkham Asylum. I mean, he seems to have tardive dyskinesia, which occurs when someone is suddenly taken off medication, and that would have happened if the Joker escaped Arkham in Batman Begins along with the other inmates. Plus, his reaction to being called crazy was immediately ‘I’m not… no I’m not’, and usually the Joker is in complete control with everything he says, but he seems to just instinctively reply with that; of course he would be sensitive to being called crazy if he was in a mental institution before. And I also don’t think that it was coincidence that he started committing crimes right after the breakout in Arkham.

 

[Darkmania]

Tardive dyskinesia doesn't necessarily occur when someone stops taking antypsychotics, it can also, and often does occur when someone has been taking them regularly for awhile.

The licking he does could be an example of dry mouth, another side affect that comes along with taking anti-psychotics. Nonetheless, I think if anything, Nolan was trying to say mental illness/insanity is part of the Joker's history.

 

[Frontier]

I think there will be a long standing fascination within the bat subculture over the TDK Joker's origins. I think at some point an anthology of short-stories should be written containing at least a dozen or so different potential such back-stories, two of them being extrapolations on the two stories Joker offered. Ideally I'd like to see these written by the fans, done through a submission contest, like Star Trek did for 10 volumes of 'Strange New Worlds' where they took fan story submissions AKA Fan-Fic and printed such. But if not that route, perhaps the dozen most prolific Batman comic writers could do the stories.

Personally, the story I've crafted in my mind is that he got those scars on the night of the Narrows Attack. He was an out-of-luck, out-of-work type. Good guy, never been in any trouble - hence no prints on file. Desperate for cash though, he goes along with a buddy on a robbery or something to be the look-out. The robbery is deemed 'low risk' because they're breaking into a dentists office -- this particular dentist does a lot of gold fillings and is rumored to keep them in a safe in the back of his office. During this, Joker is in one area while the actual robber is trying to crack the safe when the monorail passes by and Joker gets exposed to the fear gas. Starts freaking out. Actual robber wasn't exposed cause he was wearing a welding mask or some such. Tries to shut him up, worried about getting caught, but Joker is out of his mind. Robber has to whack him over the back of the head, knocks him out, and as Joker falls he's knock over a canister of laughing gas that starts to leak... Joker comes to, laughing his ass off and out of his mind, and the robber keeps telling him "This is serious! Stop joking around!" and finally Joker up and whacks him over the head with the canister of laughing gas, proceeds to beat his skull in. When he's done, the guys corpse has a surprised, shocked, serious look on his face and so he asks him "Why so serious?" which makes him laugh even more. Finally in a disillusion state, he takes some broken glass or what not and first carves a smile into the robbers corpse' face, then reasons he could laugh even more if he does so to himself, and cuts his own face as such...

*shrug* Just an idea I had.

 

[GothamAlleys]

If you want to be technical, the Joker's origin explained in the Killing Joke was verified by Batman in Detective Comics 168 although it's not part of the current continuity. However in Batman Under the Hood (not the movie) the Joker revealed he used the Red Hood identity in the past, which is linked to the origin provided in the Killing Joke and Batman 168. I guess the beauty of it is.... it is however you'd like to look at it.

Theres much more than that to it - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/08/jokers-origins-multiple-choice.html

Is that your blog man? I have to say it's FANTASTIC.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I study psychology, so getting into a character's mind is one of my specialities.
BUT JOKER! Good God, disturbing.

To me for this movie, in what I can understand.

Joker was a philosophical man. The type who would relentlessly think about the meaning of life, trying understand the purpose of why we are here. What is the point of life? I think he was and is suicidal. Finding no other meaning to life other than to cause mayhem, because to him, rules are pointless, just as life is pointless.

Him wanting to exact his thoughts and feelings on Gotham could stem from loneliness and the despair of what he's mentally going through. He's scared of being the only one who thinks those things and wants to make others understand him. Trying to prove to himself that he's not alone, and his views on the world should be how EVERYONE views them.

He see's no point in morals, doing what's right, obeying law and order, cause to him, life...existence is one big joke.

The scars? I think he inflicted those on himself after becoming 'truly' insane.

His hate for his father? Could come from the fact his dad was always bossing him around and being too authoritative with him. A cause for anti-social behaviour. His father is a representation of all that was good and sane with the world, and Joker cant bring himself to love a close family member who he probably had homicidal feelings for. So he paints his dad out to be somebody awful, who hated his son, when in reality its very much the opposite.

 

[El Payaso]

I study psychology, so getting into a character's mind is one of my specialities.
BUT JOKER! Good God, disturbing.

To me for this movie, in what I can understand.

Joker was a philosophical man. The type who would relentlessly think about the meaning of life, trying understand the purpose of why we are here. What is the point of life? I think he was and is suicidal. Finding no other meaning to life other than to cause mayhem, because to him, rules are pointless, just as life is pointless.

Him wanting to exact his thoughts and feelings on Gotham could stem from loneliness and the despair of what he's mentally going through. He's scared of being the only one who thinks those things and wants to make others understand him. Trying to prove to himself that he's not alone, and his views on the world should be how EVERYONE views them.

He see's no point in morals, doing what's right, obeying law and order, cause to him, life...existence is one big joke.

The scars? I think he inflicted those on himself after becoming 'truly' insane.

His hate for his father? Could come from the fact his dad was always bossing him around and being too authoritative with him. A cause for anti-social behaviour. His father is a representation of all that was good and sane with the world, and Joker cant bring himself to love a close family member who he probably had homicidal feelings for. So he paints his dad out to be somebody awful, who hated his son, when in reality its very much the opposite.

I can agree with everything you said.

Nevertheless I have the feeling that they used different types of psychological states for different parts. Just to make him less recognizable and so you couldn't put your finger right on his motivations.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I can agree with everything you said.

Nevertheless I have the feeling that they used different types of psychological states for different parts. Just to make him less recognizable and so you couldn't put your finger right on his motivations.

Absolutely. In TDK, they used The Killing Joke as a device for his psychology, leading to his plot in the movie.

You can't pinpoint what exactly is wrong with him. Rounding up everything the Joker says in TDK, it conflicts certain elements in his stories and personality. That looks to me like a trait of schizophrenia. A mental illness that runs through his family perhaps? But I'm guessing due to a traumatic experience.

Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum has definitely been used. I sense by the way society has become in life, and Joker realises and knows the evils of the world and works with it. Coping by going with the flow. His acts of terrorism, I'm guessing inspired by what he has seen and holds in high regard. Obviously Nolan probably knew that, terrorists do what they do to prove their points and ideals. That's what Joker does in TDK.

He obviously sees the world as nothing more than a joke. Law and Order is nothing more than a farce, that needs to be tore down in order show us how he sees our very civilisation. He wants us to bring out our raw animal sides, to live in a world without rules, cause to the Joker, he sees no point in them.

His mind is highly and dangerously philosophical, and thanks to that, we get our psycho

 

[The Joker]

That's an excellent analysis, Rodrigo