Superman Returns The KID.....merged threads

[Cinemaman]

Yeah..she most likely says that to Superman..us meaning the people of Metropolis/The World.

Strange. We will get all answers, when we see movie.

 

[Kurosawa]

From what we have seen in the trailer it doesn't look like at least IMO that Lois knows Clark and Superman are the same person....she is excited to see Clark in the scene at the DP(when she introduces him to the Munchin) and then she seems to be upset and not very happy to see Superman on the roof of the DP biulding....either she doesn't know..or she does know and is protecting his secret for him in the Lois & Clark scene.

I'm pretty sure she doesn't know. And I really hope she doesn't find out by the end of the movie.

 

[Nautica7mk]

I've read a lot of spoilers, both official and unofficial, and it indicates that Lois does not know Clark and Superman are the same.

 

[afan]

In defense to Lois and Superman's relationship prior to Returns, it has been said that they've been involved before he left. So it really doesn't matter if Superman II is a part of its 'vague' history because either way, the relationship was there between them.

I've read a lot of spoilers, both official and unofficial, and it indicates that Lois does not know Clark and Superman are the same.

Nautica, don't these quotes contradict.
How if Lois and Superman were involved enough to have a child does she not know the secret of the dual identity?

 

[Nautica7mk]

Not really. Superman and Lois could still have an intimate relationship even if she didn't know Clark and Superman were the same, at least that's the impression I'm getting, even with the Card Set.

As for conceiving the child, I really don't know. It could be a number of things, and this is where I have to put my faith in Singer because just thinking about various scenarios have given me a headache. Six more weeks!

 

[SuperDaniel]

You guys simply don`t understand. In this movie, Superman is trying to regain his place in the world as a Superhero and as a human being. At the beggining of this movie, Superman is feeling like an outcast, cause he cant havea relationship with Lois. Moreover, NASA discovers some chunks of Krypton and Superman thinks its his duty to check if theres any survivors. Inside, he wants to find a place where he fits. What place is better than home? So he goes on a trip with the hope to see Keypton alive, or even some survivors `cause inside he doesn`t like that he is the last survivor of his race. So when he gets there, it is a graveyard. Krypton and its history are gone and lives only in storybooks(crystals in the fortress). He comes back more lost. Even worse, he comes back to a world that changed a lot. His mother has a boyfriemd, Kent farm is being sold, Lois articlie about Superman not being needed. He feels insecure and again like an outcast. But now he knows the answer isn`t in the stars. It`s in his heart. So his mom convinces that the world does need people to look upon to. He goes back to Metropolis hoping he would be with lois and see her with a family. Superman always wanted to fit in and he sees the woman he loves happy with another man. He gets jelous cause he cant have that. His planet is gone. He feels alone. But when a disaster is about to happen, Superman is needed once more. Now add Luthor to that, who is trying to destroy the history of krypton for his own personal gain, and destroy what Superman loves.
What i`m trying to say is that this movie is about Superman`s dreams to fit in Earth, to protect and live in it as a human being. So its perfecly resonable that the conflict in the end of the movie is solved and he finds happiness with the woman he loves and son and he`s not alone anymore. If you cant relate to that or u cant understand how great the story is, its not Singer`s fault. Its yours.

 

[bsquad]

do we know yet if Superman even knows the kid is his? I mean, if I were Superman and I came back and saw Lois had a kid and a fiance I would honestly just assume the kid was his. Has that been confirmed yet?

 

[Dope Nose]

I'm guessing the kid is his but will die during the hospital scene after saving Clark with a transfusion, bringing Jor-El's words full circle.

"You will carry me inside you all the days of your life. You will make my strength your own, and see my life through your own eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father, and the father becomes the son."

 

[TheBat812]

IMO the kid is not SUperman's, as Singer himself said SII was not in SR's continuity.

 

[bsquad]

If the kid is his I think it would be interesting if at the end of the film Superman still does'nt know its his kid. Maybey have none of the adults know that the kid has powers

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I took that line of "us" as the world actually. He bailed, and the world got darker and "evil" took advantage......so I took it like that, and not as her calling him a deadbeat dad.

Although........

I hate the kid. Seriously. I do.

 

[Don Corleone]

You guys simply don`t understand. In this movie, Superman is trying to regain his place in the world as a Superhero and as a human being. At the beggining of this movie, Superman is feeling like an outcast, cause he cant havea relationship with Lois. Moreover, NASA discovers some chunks of Krypton and Superman thinks its his duty to check if theres any survivors. Inside, he wants to find a place where he fits. What place is better than home? So he goes on a trip with the hope to see Keypton alive, or even some survivors `cause inside he doesn`t like that he is the last survivor of his race. So when he gets there, it is a graveyard. Krypton and its history are gone and lives only in storybooks(crystals in the fortress). He comes back more lost. Even worse, he comes back to a world that changed a lot. His mother has a boyfriemd, Kent farm is being sold, Lois articlie about Superman not being needed. He feels insecure and again like an outcast. But now he knows the answer isn`t in the stars. It`s in his heart. So his mom convinces that the world does need people to look upon to. He goes back to Metropolis hoping he would be with lois and see her with a family. Superman always wanted to fit in and he sees the woman he loves happy with another man. He gets jelous cause he cant have that. His planet is gone. He feels alone. But when a disaster is about to happen, Superman is needed once more. Now add Luthor to that, who is trying to destroy the history of krypton for his own personal gain, and destroy what Superman loves.
What i`m trying to say is that this movie is about Superman`s dreams to fit in Earth, to protect and live in it as a human being. So its perfecly resonable that the conflict in the end of the movie is solved and he finds happiness with the woman he loves and son and he`s not alone anymore. If you cant relate to that or u cant understand how great the story is, its not Singer`s fault. Its yours.

that was beautifully put, i really enjoyed reading that

 

[Wams]

IMO the kid is not SUperman's, as Singer himself said SII was not in SR's continuity.

Enigma2k said it was Superman's kid.
He said he read it in the the script.
Also he confirmed the kid's name before anyone.
I believe Enigma.

 

[gdw]

You guys simply don`t understand. In this movie, Superman is trying to regain his place in the world as a Superhero and as a human being. At the beggining of this movie, Superman is feeling like an outcast, cause he cant havea relationship with Lois. Moreover, NASA discovers some chunks of Krypton and Superman thinks its his duty to check if theres any survivors. Inside, he wants to find a place where he fits. What place is better than home? So he goes on a trip with the hope to see Keypton alive, or even some survivors `cause inside he doesn`t like that he is the last survivor of his race. So when he gets there, it is a graveyard. Krypton and its history are gone and lives only in storybooks(crystals in the fortress). He comes back more lost. Even worse, he comes back to a world that changed a lot. His mother has a boyfriemd, Kent farm is being sold, Lois articlie about Superman not being needed. He feels insecure and again like an outcast. But now he knows the answer isn`t in the stars. It`s in his heart. So his mom convinces that the world does need people to look upon to. He goes back to Metropolis hoping he would be with lois and see her with a family. Superman always wanted to fit in and he sees the woman he loves happy with another man. He gets jelous cause he cant have that. His planet is gone. He feels alone. But when a disaster is about to happen, Superman is needed once more. Now add Luthor to that, who is trying to destroy the history of krypton for his own personal gain, and destroy what Superman loves.
What i`m trying to say is that this movie is about Superman`s dreams to fit in Earth, to protect and live in it as a human being. So its perfecly resonable that the conflict in the end of the movie is solved and he finds happiness with the woman he loves and son and he`s not alone anymore. If you cant relate to that or u cant understand how great the story is, its not Singer`s fault. Its yours.

Yes, that all makes sense, and it works beautifully, BUT it's great, for an END.

What the bad place are they supposed to do now? They've killed the potential as a franchise.

Perfectly wraps up Donner's Superman that he started, but they'd have to start fresh to go anywhere else with Superman in film now.

This is what bugs most people I believe. Superman can get the girl and have a kid, but it eally kills his story. There's not much else after that. Having a kid, getting married, all that just projects to the feeling of setteling down.

Just look at MI III, that's one of the biggest points that everyone is making in the film, trying to tell Ethan that he can't get married if he's gonna live the life he is. And at the end, sure he's happily married, but do you honestly think that will last if they carry on the series?

bad place no. His wif is going to be killed off if they ever make a fourth and or fifth one.

"Hey hunny, I'm heade off to save the world again, i may be late, so just throw my dinner in the fridge."

It just does not work for any potential of future films. They will just seem contrived. Like, I think Miller, said, it works when that's the gag, like The Increibles, that's what their story IS, a family involved with superheros, sam with the FF, but it's NOT Superman.

Doing THAT is what re-writes the whole premise of Superman. A man who has incredible abilities and saves the world, but also tries to live a normal life, keeping his secret from everyone around him. He has NO ONE close by that he can be that part of himself with. Only his parents who he lives away from. Sure he can fly there pretty quick, but that's not part of his daily life.

You take all that away when you give Superman a family. Now he has nothing to hide, not from the people close to him at least, the ones that he really loves. That whole conflict is gone, the whole humour that it adds with him trying to have a relationship with Lois, but always having to make an exscuse to leave.

That whole rapore is killed. It takes away the line that makes Clark Kent someone different from Superman. He needs that devision. Otherwise he's only left with Superman and the guy he is at work, and everyone has those two sides so there's nothing special. There's nothing for the audience to invest in.

The only way that making the kid Superman's will work is if this particular tale ends with Returns and they start from the begining again, or they write the kid out of future films.

 

[gdw]

Enigma2k said it was Superman's kid.
He said he read it in the the script.
Also he confirmed the kid's name before anyone.
I believe Enigma.

But we all know the wools Singer pulls over peoples eyes with his scripts.

Infact, as far as i know, Apt Pupil has been the ONLY film he's done where I haven't heard of him pulling something with the scripts and making something different in the end from what he makes everyone think.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Yes, that all makes sense, and it works beautifully, BUT it's great, for an END.

What the bad place are they supposed to do now? They've killed the potential as a franchise.

Perfectly wraps up Donner's Superman that he started, but they'd have to start fresh to go anywhere else with Superman in film now.

This is what bugs most people I believe. Superman can get the girl and have a kid, but it eally kills his story. There's not much else after that. Having a kid, getting married, all that just projects to the feeling of setteling down.

Just look at MI III, that's one of the biggest points that everyone is making in the film, trying to tell Ethan that he can't get married if he's gonna live the life he is. And at the end, sure he's happily married, but do you honestly think that will last if they carry on the series?

bad place no. His wif is going to be killed off if they ever make a fourth and or fifth one.

"Hey hunny, I'm heade off to save the world again, i may be late, so just throw my dinner in the fridge."

It just does not work for any potential of future films. They will just seem contrived. Like, I think Miller, said, it works when that's the gag, like The Increibles, that's what their story IS, a family involved with superheros, sam with the FF, but it's NOT Superman.

Doing THAT is what re-writes the whole premise of Superman. A man who has incredible abilities and saves the world, but also tries to live a normal life, keeping his secret from everyone around him. He has NO ONE close by that he can be that part of himself with. Only his parents who he lives away from. Sure he can fly there pretty quick, but that's not part of his daily life.

You take all that away when you give Superman a family. Now he has nothing to hide, not from the people close to him at least, the ones that he really loves. That whole conflict is gone, the whole humour that it adds with him trying to have a relationship with Lois, but always having to make an exscuse to leave.

That whole rapore is killed. It takes away the line that makes Clark Kent someone different from Superman. He needs that devision. Otherwise he's only left with Superman and the guy he is at work, and everyone has those two sides so there's nothing special. There's nothing for the audience to invest in.

The only way that making the kid Superman's will work is if this particular tale ends with Returns and they start from the begining again, or they write the kid out of future films.

I think it works cause it fits the story and the movie and shows that Superman quest is not JUST personal. Superman is more than having a family. He is a about going on, having hope, learning with mistakes. He is more than just trying to fit in. He is about making the world a better place too. So this part of the quest is not over. THere still the quest for truth and justice and this will never end. Or it might end if he kills somebody just like what happened in Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow.

Relationships in the comics doesn`t work `cause its a weekly thing. You gotta have a new adveture every week. Comics and movies arent different mediums. I want to see character development and not sit through all the movies and watch the same **** with Lois not knowing Clark`s secret identity, not having a relationship that actually progresses. Thats why MJ found out about Peter`s secret identity in the 2nd movie and they will probably get married in the third. I don`t see people complaining about that. I see the opposite. I see them saying "its about time", "finally". This thing that Clark having a family in the movie kills the story is bul****. They can do things to spice up, bring new villains, have fun with the characters. His son not having powers would be a weak point beyond kryptonite. Now he has a family to protect too. This not an origin movie. Superman 1 was. So, its time for the relationship to progress and i think it works perfectly with the premise of this movie.

 

[Kurosawa]

You guys simply don`t understand. In this movie, Superman is trying to regain his place in the world as a Superhero and as a human being. At the beggining of this movie, Superman is feeling like an outcast, cause he cant havea relationship with Lois. Moreover, NASA discovers some chunks of Krypton and Superman thinks its his duty to check if theres any survivors. Inside, he wants to find a place where he fits. What place is better than home? So he goes on a trip with the hope to see Keypton alive, or even some survivors `cause inside he doesn`t like that he is the last survivor of his race. So when he gets there, it is a graveyard. Krypton and its history are gone and lives only in storybooks(crystals in the fortress). He comes back more lost. Even worse, he comes back to a world that changed a lot. His mother has a boyfriemd, Kent farm is being sold, Lois articlie about Superman not being needed. He feels insecure and again like an outcast. But now he knows the answer isn`t in the stars. It`s in his heart. So his mom convinces that the world does need people to look upon to. He goes back to Metropolis hoping he would be with lois and see her with a family. Superman always wanted to fit in and he sees the woman he loves happy with another man. He gets jelous cause he cant have that. His planet is gone. He feels alone. But when a disaster is about to happen, Superman is needed once more. Now add Luthor to that, who is trying to destroy the history of krypton for his own personal gain, and destroy what Superman loves.
What i`m trying to say is that this movie is about Superman`s dreams to fit in Earth, to protect and live in it as a human being. So its perfecly resonable that the conflict in the end of the movie is solved and he finds happiness with the woman he loves and son and he`s not alone anymore. If you cant relate to that or u cant understand how great the story is, its not Singer`s fault. Its yours.

To me that's a heck of a story. And him having a son gives him back some of what he's lost.

Although if down the road they acknowledged Kara I'd love that as well.

 

[Hunter Rider]

IMO the kid is not SUperman's, as Singer himself said SII was not in SR's continuity.

That's what i'm hoping

 

[Hunter Rider]

To me there was plenty of meat in the story of Superman finding his place in the world after 5 years away and rebuilding his relationship with Lois without the Kid.
My big worry is if the kid is Superman's and has powers then we will have Superboy in the sequels

 

[gdw]

I think it works cause it fits the story and the movie and shows that Superman quest is not JUST personal. Superman is more than having a family. He is a about going on, having hope, learning with mistakes. He is more than just trying to fit in. He is about making the world a better place too. So this part of the quest is not over. THere still the quest for truth and justice and this will never end. Or it might end if he kills somebody just like what happened in Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow.

Relationships in the comics doesn`t work `cause its a weekly thing. You gotta have a new adveture every week. Comics and movies arent different mediums. I want to see character development and not sit through all the movies and watch the same **** with Lois not knowing Clark`s secret identity, not having a relationship that actually progresses. Thats why MJ found out about Peter`s secret identity in the 2nd movie and they will probably get married in the third. I don`t see people complaining about that. I see the opposite. I see them saying "its about time", "finally". This thing that Clark having a family in the movie kills the story is bul****. They can do things to spice up, bring new villains, have fun with the characters. His son not having powers would be a weak point beyond kryptonite. Now he has a family to protect too. This not an origin movie. Superman 1 was. So, its time for the relationship to progress and i think it works perfectly with the premise of this movie.

But that's just it, he goes on with his "fight" but really, that's all there is to show US now. The audience. Just another superbaddy with so much story potential stripped away.

I think it can, and probably will work beautifully, but it simply kills the franchise. In the comics they sure could make it work simply because there they can go into the kinds of things they have to deal with raising a super kid, but in a movie that can't really be pulled off too much with out it looking like another Baby Geniuses type of flick. some brainless kiddy popcon movie.

It would be rediculouse to have a film that deals with Superman raising a kid. And no matter what they do, if the kid is his, that WILL have to be part of the film.

 

[gdw]

And Hunter rider, where oh where did you get your avyy????

 

[Hunter Rider]

And Hunter rider, where oh where did you get your avyy????

Britney's Everytime Video

 

[SuperDaniel]

But that's just it, he goes on with his "fight" but really, that's all there is to show US now. The audience. Just another superbaddy with so much story potential stripped away.

Its not just it. Thats the reason and purpose of Superman. The never-ending fight for true and justice. There still a whole world to protect. Superman is not just about his personal safety and problems. Is about him do what`s best to help the world and make it a better and fair place.

I think it can, and probably will work beautifully, but it simply kills the franchise. In the comics they sure could make it work simply because there they can go into the kinds of things they have to deal with raising a super kid, but in a movie that can't really be pulled off too much with out it looking like another Baby Geniuses type of flick. some brainless kiddy popcon movie.
It would be rediculouse to have a film that deals with Superman raising a kid. And no matter what they do, if the kid is his, that WILL have to be part of the film.

Thats your opinion. This is something new and fresh that doesn`t kill the character. Its a progress of the boring relationship of the comics. Singer is obviously a great storyteller so i really doubt it will be that stupid. It can be stupid but it could also be a great tale of aging, reflection and and an inspiration to us, like Secret Identity. It actually makes Superman a better character cause fatherhood its a step in people`s lifes. I`m not a father yet but i can relate to Superman just from how i see mine. Superman evolving from outcast to husband and father and becoming more human is a great story in my opinion. But if you think it sucks, its your opinion. This movie won`t please everybody but i bet Singer will do it beautifully on screen.

 

[gdw]

Its not just it. Thats the reason and purpose of Superman. The never-ending fight for true and justice. There still a whole world to protect. Superman is not just about his personal safety and problems. Is about him do what`s best to help the world and make it a better and fair place.


Thats your opinion. This is something new and fresh that doesn`t kill the character. Its a progress of the boring relationship of the comics. Singer is obviously a great storyteller so i really doubt it will be that stupid. It can be stupid but it could also be a great tale of aging, reflection and and an inspiration to us, like Secret Identity. It actually makes Superman a better character cause fatherhood its a step in people`s lifes. I`m not a father yet but i can relate to Superman just from how i see mine. Superman evolving from outcast to husband and father and becoming more human is a great story in my opinion. But if you think it sucks, its your opinion. This movie won`t please everybody but i bet Singer will do it beautifully on screen.

Please, do try to get the whole message from my posts, I do not think it sucks, and I DO know that it will work beautifully for this film, and makes a LOT of sense for where this story shoul go and where Superman should develope.

But what yiou are talking about, his never ending quest for Truth, Justice, etc does not make for much of a movie. That may be his over all motivation, but you can't make a franchise just about him saving the planet and his fight to make it a better place.

What makes each story and movie something people want to watch is the unique somoething about each one. Simply, "What does this film offer that the others did not?"

And if it's just Superman going about his daily life rescueing people, well it's not much.

What I am saying is that, YES this is a plave for Superman to eventually develope to and a natural one at that, but for a film franchise it is the END of where he progresses to. It is a new begining for Superman and his family, but what do film goers care after that.

The only stoies left to tell are Superman just continuing to take on Luthor, and other bad guys.

Why do you think Donner had the intentions to wipe out Superman and Lois getting together? Because then what would he do?

No more conflict for that part of his life. You say it's about more then his personal life, yeah, it is, in his over all generic message and quest. But that's just it, it's generic.

all the Sequels would just be about Superman saving lives. I don't want to see that, and only that for a sequel. The entire purpose of a sequel is to take the CHARACTER somewhere more then where he or she has been. It is all about further developing the character, not just seeing what disaster he can avert next.

Again, I do NOT think that the idea and what not in this movie will suck. I think it will be amazing and work perfectly. And it will come to a great end. But then where is all I am saying

There is no more love story. Unless you want to have thm have relationship problems, but when the woman gets jealous because he has to keep going off to save the world (seriously, he's Superma, what else would she be able to get upset about) well it becomes like a parody of the real problems people have in relationships.

And I certainly do not want Superman films to be about marriage troubles and raising kids.

I just do not see what they really have that can work for future films.

Where do you see them taking the character? Not what world saving can he do next, not just showing more of him fighting the good fight, he's always going to do that, what is going to happen TO him.

That's what films are about, things happening TO the characters, not just them making things happen.

So, please I do really wish to know where you see them taking Superman in the sequels?

 

[SuperDaniel]

Being a father. I want Superman to do that, seriously. Its so hard to be there for your kids, to raise them. I want to see this chapter, at least in the movies. No more of the same bul**** with Lois & Clark not knowing who they are. I want the relationship to progress, i want the characters to evolve. Besides, its not like we`ll have Superman 6. After some time, it gets boring. I want to see Superman being a father and the world is in some kind of war. An invasion by Darkside. And then we see flashbacks of Clarks childhood, how he was raised. And then, in the last movie, maybe in the 3rd i want Superman to kill the criminal. Something like what happened in Alan`s Moore story and Superman gives up of his powers.

In one Superman story i wrote, Luthor puts Lois in a kryptonite chamber and only light can get in it. And the same light will make Lois die. Like a planthouse or something like that. And Superman goes as far as he can and superspeeds to the speed of light to save Lois and accidentaly go in the future `cause Eisten says that if a body go on the speed of light, you can travel to the future. So, basically, Superman can see many years in the future and the world is a peacefull Utopia, similar to Krypton of the past,giving people the answer of why Superman battles for truth and justice. Why does he uses his powers for good? `CAuse he wants the world to be that place. Later on he desacellarates, so he travels back to the present world, saves Lois, arrests Luthor who aks: Why cant i beat you? What gives you this strenght to go on and on? And Superman then looks at Lois, remebers of what he saw and answers: "Love and hope."