The Rise of Skywalker The Last Jedi vs The Rise of Skywalker

[Silver Surfer]

So out of the 2 sequels to TFA, which one do you like more? I despise the Last Jedi, I am unapologetic in my hatred for it and barely find anything redeemable about it. I loved TROS, and found it to the best of the Disney Star Wars movies.

 

[Spider-Fan]

No contest, TLJ. TLJ actually had something to say and had deeper themes and meaning. Yeah the Canto Bight plot sucks, but I love everything else. TROS is loud, dumb, and messy. Yeah it looks great, but that doesn't save a very bad script. They needed to work on the screenplay and fine tune it a lot more. It felt like a first draft.

 

[Zantera]

RoS. TLJ is massively disappointing on so many levels.

 

[Elayis]

TLJ and it's not even close. TRoS is easily the worst SW movie by a mile. I was actually surprised given Abrams' solid (but unremarkable) work on TFA. Even his Star Trek films are better and I despise them.

 

[Doc Samson]

I'll take TLJ over this mess any day of the week. Easily.

 

[Zorro]

Rise of Skywlaker but I like Last Jedi too

 

[BatLobster]

I really think one of the major reasons TROS feels as clunky as it does is the fact that Leia was always supposed to play a key role in the film, and they had to literally reverse engineer much of the plot around the scenes that they had, and I think that includes how they decided to re-introduce Palps. I honestly think it's some kind of miracle that it just barely works.

But literally, forget everything about all the TLJ and all the controversy. Imagine ANY film has to write itself around deleted scenes from a prior film. You're inevitably going to end up with something that feels a bit weird. I really don't think this film could've worked without Leia. You write Leia out of the film, and I think Ben's redemption arc is pretty much off the table. So they were in a real pickle there and I think they just did the absolute best they could to work around it.

And you know what? I'm still glad they went this route vs. recasting. Cause recasting would've taken me out of it just as much tbh, even if they could've fleshed out her role more.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah it looks great, but that doesn't save a very bad script.

I would argue it doesn't even look that great in a lot of places. I had a very, very tough time seeing what was going on in the last act. Which is frustrating, because there were a lot of great cinematography in this.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Leia scenes were terrible. I mean, I get it. I really do.

Spoiler

But it's just characters talking around her saying very general things. Most of her dialogue just entails her saying things like we should do that. Or I agree . Like I said in another thread, it reminds me of those scenes were Groot says the one thing he can say, but then Rocket starts going off on a tangent and restates what Groot said so we understand what he's reacting to. Only here it lacks that self-aware comedy and is playing it straight, and it just really didn't work for me. That and just look fake.

 

[BatLobster]

It's just unfortunate. I think they did the very best they could do with an unfortunate situation though. Like, it's a borderline miracle that Leia's role in the story and her connection to Rey is able to track at all. I could see why J.J. was saying that now. It still felt weird, of course.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's just unfortunate. I think they did the very best they could do with an unfortunate situation though. Like, it's a borderline miracle that Leia's role in the story and her connection to Rey is able to track at all. I could see why J.J. was saying that now. It still felt weird, of course.

Honestly, I would rather she had been killed off screen than this. It's an unfortunate situation, I agree. But with the way it was done in this movie it sort of added a cheapness to it for me. Every time she was on screen it took me out of the movie and I thought that it completely didn't work. I know this sounded good in theory, but in execution this didn't work at all

Carrie Fisher was wonderful in The Last Jedi. That should have been her final performance and that should have been how we remembered her.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Fascinating... can't wait to see it tonight and report back

 

[Travesty]

TROS by a country mile.

 

[antsman41]

TLJ is the second best SW thing (behind Rebels S4) since The Empire Strikes Back... while TROS is essentially "prequel-Lucas" remaking ROTJ with better cgi and way better actors.

Hell, Episode 6/7 of The Mandalorian was a more concise story, while also paying homages and being very "Star Wars" without tripping on it's own feet.

 

[antsman41]

Honestly, I would rather she had been killed off screen than this. It's an unfortunate situation, I agree. But with the way it was done in this movie it sort of added a cheapness to it for me. Every time she was on screen it took me out of the movie and I thought that it completely didn't work. I know this sounded good in theory, but in execution this didn't work at all

Carrie Fisher was wonderful in The Last Jedi. That should have been her final performance and that should have been how we remembered her.

I don't get why their flashback faces look more like ANH Leia/Luke instead of aged/weathered post-ROTJ Leia/Luke.

 

[BatLobster]

Honestly, I would rather she had been killed off screen than this. It's an unfortunate situation, I agree. But with the way it was done in this movie it sort of added a cheapness to it for me. Every time she was on screen it took me out of the movie and I thought that it completely didn't work. I know this sounded good in theory, but in execution this didn't work at all

Perhaps it would've helped. I mean, I really think it's a rock and a hard place kind of thing. You recast, something feels off. You do a totally digital character, something feels off and it feels more gross. You kill her off screen-- maybe that can work, but I think it puts you in an even tougher spot when it comes to Ben's arc than this movie already was stuck in, when TLJ established he has a soft spot for momma. I just don't think there was any good way to deal with it and it's tough to know which was the lesser of all evils. But the fact that Carrie's family was happy with her inclusion makes me feel more okay with it from a moral standpoint, even if it's still awkward in the film.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Perhaps it would've helped. I mean, I really think it's a rock and a hard place kind of thing. You recast, something feels off. You do a totally digital character, something feels off. You kill her off screen-- maybe that works, but I think it puts you in an even tougher spot when it comes to Ben's arc than this movie already was stuck in, when TLJ established he has a soft spot for momma. I just don't think there was any good way to deal with it and it's tough to know which was the lesser of all evils. But the fact that Carrie's family was happy with her inclusion makes me feel more okay with it from a moral standpoint, even if it's still awkward in the film.

I'm not even digging into moral implications of including her. Like you said, if her family is okay with it that is good enough for me. But from an artistic standpoint, the movie suffers from including her. If it's a detriment to the movie, then you shouldn't do it. Like I said, the scenes stick out like a sore thumb and it just makes the movie feel cheap and awkward. Why put yourself in that position? Just for the sake of seeing her in the movie? I think they could have easily wrote around her just being dead. Yeah maybe some fans wouldn't have been happy about it, but the movie wouldn't have felt cheap and terrible like it does when she is in it in the existing cut.

 

[antsman41]

I don't get why their flashback faces look more like ANH Leia/Luke instead of aged/weathered post-ROTJ Leia/Luke.

At least they got Luke's lightsaber correct.

I'll credit Hidalgo (or that other guy who's technically the LucasFilm head-guy for knowledge) and not JJ for that detail.

 

[henzINNIT]

The things that irk me in TLJ irk me more, but it also has the higher highs. It wins for me. TROS is very messy but I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. Will give it a second viewing, but am a little afraid it's not gonna hold up.

 

[herolee10]

The Last Jedi ruined Luke's legacy.

The Rise of Skywalker destroyed the Skywalker's legacy.

 

[Iceman]

How is the poll doing? I can’t see it without voting (which I won’t do till I see it tomorrow).

 

[Mad Ones]

How is the poll doing? I can’t see it without voting (which I won’t do till I see it tomorrow).

TLJ has 10 votes
RoSW has 9 votes

I voted for TLJ since it felt so fresh and thoughtful. I didn't find much redeemable about RoSW

 

[Iceman]

TLJ has 10 votes
RoSW has 9 votes

I voted for TLJ since it felt so fresh and thoughtful. I didn't find much redeemable about RoSW

Thanks for that. Very even so far. Will be interesting to see another with TFA thrown in, and then everyone’s overall rankings for all the Star Wars films.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm not even digging into moral implications of including her. Like you said, if her family is okay with it that is good enough for me. But from an artistic standpoint, the movie suffers from including her. If it's a detriment to the movie, then you shouldn't do it. Like I said, the scenes stick out like a sore thumb and it just makes the movie feel cheap and awkward. Why put yourself in that position? Just for the sake of seeing her in the movie? I think they could have easily wrote around her just being dead. Yeah maybe some fans wouldn't have been happy about it, but the movie wouldn't have felt cheap and terrible like it does when she is in it in the existing cut.

I agree and disagree here. I think the movie does clearly suffer for it as a movie, but I think if we're to look at the story this movie chose to tell-- which I think is fair, her absence entirely would've had a detrimental effect on Ben's arc and her relationship with Rey is basically the only thing that is able to justify Rey deciding to take the Skywalker name at the end. And those things are on kind of wobbly ground to begin with.

I guess I'm of two minds about this movie. As a lifelong Star Wars fan who's very invested in the overall narrative of the 9 films, I overall liked the story they chose to tell and I think a lot of those story beats felt right to me when I reflect on them. As a film fan, the issues are obvious, and it took me out of enjoying the ride on my first viewing. And I totally get the complaints about fan service and the movie feeling unoriginal, etc. But while it's 100% fair to criticize this film on its own merits, I guess I feel more inclined to cut the movie some slack when I recognize the crazy task it had on its plate of wrapping up 9 films, which already have a pretty wonky mythology. I just think the movie should've allowed itself more runtime. I seriously think even an extra 10-15 minutes could've done wonders for the pacing.

Basically, in the same way I can appreciate the prequels for the story they chose to tell, but see their flaws as movies, that's kind of how I feel about TROS. Admittedly though, TROS has much better acting and personality, etc. There were moments with Rey, Poe and Finn that really worked well for me. It felt really good seeing them all together and made me regret that we didn't get more of it in this trilogy.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree and disagree here. I think the movie does clearly suffer for it as a movie, but I think if we're to look at the story this movie chose to tell-- which I think is fair, her absence entirely would've had a detrimental effect on Ben's arc and her relationship with Rey is basically the only thing that is able to justify Rey deciding to take the Skywalker name at the end. And those things are on kind of wobbly ground to begin with.

I guess I'm of two minds about this movie. As a lifelong Star Wars fan who's very invested in the overall narrative of the 9 films, I overall liked the story they chose to tell and I think a lot of those story beats felt right to me when I reflect on them. As a film fan, the issues are obvious, and it took me out of enjoying the ride on my first viewing. And I totally get the complaints about fan service and the movie feeling unoriginal, etc. But while it's 100% fair to criticize this film on its own merits, I guess I feel more inclined to cut the movie some slack when I recognize the crazy task it had on its plate of wrapping up 9 films, which already have a pretty wonky mythology. I just think the movie should've allowed itself more runtime. I seriously think even an extra 10-15 minutes could've done wonders for the pacing.

Basically, in the same way I can appreciate the prequels for the story they chose to tell, but see their flaws as movies, that's kind of how I feel about TROS. Admittedly though, TROS has much better acting and personality, etc. There were moments with Rey, Poe and Finn that really worked well for me. It felt really good seeing them all together and made me regret that we didn't get more of it in this trilogy.

I think they could have used her at an emotional moment as a force Ghost with the footage that existed and it would have fit more seamlessly into the movie then it did with the way they did it. With the way they did it, I just found myself sad watching it and I was wishing all her scenes with just end. I wasn't sad for any narrative reason or any emotional reason that the movie was going for, but was just sad to see such a great character brought so low . Talk about a character going out with a whimper. Heck, to get around this you could have done more with Luke as a ghost or other things. But there were other answers that would have achieved the same dramatic effect that would have made the movie not feel cheap and kind of pathetic