The Last of Us The Last Of Us 2

[OutOfBoose]

Finished the game. I'll go listen to "Type O Negative - Everything Dies" on repeat.

 

[TheVileOne]

I love Chloe. Lost Legacy might be my favorite game. But Drake and Elena belong together imo.

For me, ND's big three are Among Thieves, The Last of Us and the Lost Legacy. I can't really choose between them, as they all have their strength and flaws. That said, the first Uncharted is actually kind of bad and the third one is a bit disappointment imo. The first game is so primitive that I almost didn't play Among Thieves after how much praise the first one got. While the third game clearly got cut short in development, and the last fourth of the game really shows it imo.

Uncharted 4 is really good, but has some rather large pacing issues imo.

I like Uncharted 4, but I found the villain rather underwhelming. Plus the story of Drake's past coming to light felt like a rehash of 3, except this time he has a long lost brother we never knew about. I kind of felt like Uncharted 3 was a decent enough origin story for Drake. Also, I think multiplayer was best in 2 and 3.

I thought some of the more open sandbox type environments were interesting, but I don't think Uncharted really needed them.

 

[psylockolussus]

Finished the game. I'll go listen to "Type O Negative - Everything Dies" on repeat.

Already?
How long was it?

 

[OutOfBoose]

Already?
How long was it?

I finished it in 24 hours. But I basically took a break only for sleep.

 

[psylockolussus]

I spoiled myself.

Spoiler

Well that was a bleak ending for the OG characters.

 

[jmc]

I'm starting to see posts online showing just how deceptive the marketing was involved with this game. Naughty Dog really did play on peoples attachment to the first game for this one. Play everyone like a god damn fiddle.

 

[Gothamsknight]

about 11 hours in. I think the story will work or not work depending on what you're expecting. I'm having a blast, although i already know I'm not doing a second playthrough of this.

 

[Marvolo]

The last of us 2 reddit is ripping this game a new *******. The more I read the more I legitimately hate Neil. The fact he is involved in the HBO adaption pretty much makes that thing DOA for me.

Spoiler

What's even the ****ing point investing in that show knowing what I know now?

I hope Mr. Edgelord has **** all of his self-loathing and misery into this game before he returns to Uncharted. I dont want him to ruin another series that I love.

 

[jmc]

I keep watching the reactions to various streamers and Let's Plays, did anyone making this game even understand why the first one was loved so much by people?

 

[OutOfBoose]

The last of us 2 reddit is ripping this game a new *******. The more I read the more I legitimately hate Neil. The fact he is involved in the HBO adaption pretty much makes that thing DOA for me.

Spoiler

What's even the ****ing point investing in that show knowing what I know now?

I hope Mr. Edgelord has **** all of his self-loathing and misery into this game before he returns to Uncharted. I dont want him to ruin another series that I love.

Twist the Knife: The Game is heavily inspired by works of Benioff & Weiss.

I keep watching the reactions to various streamers and Let's Plays, did anyone making this game even understand why the first one was loved so much by people?

If Goss and Druckmann wanted a reaction, they're gonna get one. I welcome the approach "no character is sacred, story is king", but it doesn't mean audience should be subjected to constant abuse. Never ending nightmare.

I'm very mixed on the story of Part II. There are genuinely good character moments, I like the message of the game, but there are many problems with it both on idea and execution levels... I can't help but think it was a major mistake overall and it might lead to death of the franchise.

 

[jmc]

I'd go so far as to say it could be the death of Naughty Dog. That might sound a bit over the top, but the number of people who I've seen heartbroken over this is beyond anything I've seen. How do people trust a company like this anymore with the games they love after this? This mentality of breaking franchises is something I just do not understand. There is no other audience. There's no hidden group of consumers waiting to watch your movie, read your book or play your game. They don't exist and they never will.

 

[OutOfBoose]

If the company will be under a threat, they will pick one responsible and let him go. People are hating on Druckmann, so he's the prime candidate.

 

[Marvolo]

If the company will be under a threat, they will pick one responsible and let him go. People are hating on Druckmann, so he's the prime candidate.

One thing of many that really chaps my ass is how they essentially retconned what the first game told the player.

Spoiler

I may be misremembering and correct me if I'm wrong. The first gamehammers it home with journals, audio tapes, and the events of the final portion of the game that the Fireflies and the scientists and the doctors were not behaving rationally or scientifically. They had no guarantee of a cure, had made little progress in years, and were rushing to cut out Ellie's brain in some insane effort to cure the contagion. They wanted a solution right then because they had reached a road block in their research. But that isnt how sane or scientific research works. You dont get a golden goose, the only known person with immunity, and kill that person. You keep that person alive at all costs so that you have a continual supply of living tissue samples. They just grabbed her, from Joel, and went straight for her brain. They claimed to have her consent, but newsflash, preteens cant give informed consent. Especially when they are being pressured by a zealous paramilitary cult and a world gone to hell. So neither morally nor scientifically was it sane for firefly to kill Ellie or for Joel to allow it.


And now this game wants to retcon that to make me say, "Sure, Abby has a point."? Well, **** you, Naughty Dog. And especially, **** you Abby.

Sorry, but Abby's dad was going too far, and killing the golden goose. And he was killed while trying to murder a preteen girl.

Abby has had years to find out what happened and why. Has had years to find Joel and realize that Joel had to kill those fireflies because they would never let Ellie live. And she is goddamn old enough to grasp and accept that Joel wasnt some scum murderer. That daddy dearest was doing an incredibly ****ed up thing. But instead when she finally meets an old weary Joel and he saves her life she tortures and beats him to death like a goddamn neanderthal.

And then the devs have the festering cojones to force the player to spend 12 hours playing as this neanderthal *****, and worse denies the player any sort of revenge.

 

[OutOfBoose]

One thing of many that really chaps my ass is how they essentially retconned what the first game told the player.

Spoiler

I may be misremembering and correct me if I'm wrong. The first gamehammers it home with journals, audio tapes, and the events of the final portion of the game that the Fireflies and the scientists and the doctors were not behaving rationally or scientifically. They had no guarantee of a cure, had made little progress in years, and were rushing to cut out Ellie's brain in some insane effort to cure the contagion. They wanted a solution right then because they had reached a road block in their research. But that isnt how sane or scientific research works. You dont get a golden goose, the only known person with immunity, and kill that person. You keep that person alive at all costs so that you have a continual supply of living tissue samples. They just grabbed her, from Joel, and went straight for her brain. They claimed to have her consent, but newsflash, preteens cant give informed consent. Especially when they are being pressured by a zealous paramilitary cult and a world gone to hell. So neither morally nor scientifically was it sane for firefly to kill Ellie or for Joel to allow it.


And now this game wants to retcon that to make me say, "Sure, Abby has a point."? Well, **** you, Naughty Dog. And especially, **** you Abby.

Sorry, but Abby's dad was going too far, and killing the golden goose. And he was killed while trying to murder a preteen girl.

Abby has had years to find out what happened and why. Has had years to find Joel and realize that Joel had to kill those fireflies because they would never let Ellie live. And she is goddamn old enough to grasp and accept that Joel wasnt some scum murderer. That daddy dearest was doing an incredibly ****ed up thing. But instead when she finally meets an old weary Joel and he saves her life she tortures and beats him to death like a goddamn neanderthal.

And then the devs have the festering cojones to force the player to spend 12 hours playing as this neanderthal *****, and worse denies the player any sort of revenge.

I'm disagreeing here:

Spoiler

I don't think they retconned the first game in any way and even carefully navigated around it's ending. If there's no cure, then ending of the first game simply doesn't work. Unconditional love theme flies into window because there's no sacrifice for Joel in the end. There's no guilt, no lie. I understand it's a scientific stretch, because it's not how it works in real life, but it's one of many cases of McGuffin in fiction. We simply have to accept the concept for the story to work. But I don't think it's that big of a deal in the world where fungus people are possible.
Also, I don't remember anyone claiming Ellie's consent. Ellie suspects Joel lied to her, but she didn't know for sure till she confronted him under threat of leaving him if he lies her one more time.

And yes, Abby has a point. But, overall, the devs made it right by not joining any side of the argument. It's the moral dilemma of the first game and it's carried into the sequel. The sequel doesn't make Joel look like a scum murderer either. Just because some characters see him that way, doesn't mean that the story wants you to think that way too. On the opposite, the game wants you to feel Ellie's loss and wants you to hate the perpetrators.

I have different problems with the sequel's story than majority of disappointed, it seems. I dislike general attitude "feeling bad yet? feeling miserable yet? feeling disgusted yet? how about this?" of the story. I think ending of the game is overblown and unnecessarily edgelord-y. I believe there was a way to do the same thing without turning it into misery contest. I wish they dropped the whole Santa Barbara part. Left Abby and Lev searching for Fireflies and let Ellie, Dina and Tommy deal with the tragedy on the farm.

Writing has it's silly and contrived points, it's very cheap and unsubtle at times too. I'm certainly not a fan when the game reaches torture porn level of violence. Half of the new cast is unremarkable or isn't used in any meaningful way. I also hate that they took away Ellie's ability to play guitar.

 

[Marvolo]

I just watched the final fight.

Spoiler

It's like watching two white trash meth addicts trying to kill each other. This is so ****ing nasty.

The fight doesnt even look good graphically.

And then it ends with Ellie no longer being able to play guitar.

For the love of god what the **** was Naughty Dog thinking... How the hell did Neil sell this toxic **** to the executives?

 

[OutOfBoose]

I just watched the final fight.

Spoiler

It's like watching two white trash meth addicts trying to kill each other. This is so ****ing nasty.

The fight doesnt even look good graphically.

And then it ends with Ellie no longer being able to play guitar.

For the love of god what the **** was Naughty Dog thinking... How the hell did Neil sell this toxic **** to the executives?

This is my biggest issue with the game.

Spoiler

The entire Santa Barbara thing sucked (and frankly wasn't needed in the story). And they took away guitar from Ellie. ****ing hell. Why only fingers? Why not cut her nose off? That would've been even more shocking.

Ellie Three-Fingers. Bravo, ND.

 

[Mani-Man]

Ive been looking around for a while now here and there, i wait until there are some 100% runs that i can watch since im not super interested in playing the game(its one of those games i only like when i can watch others play)

I get the feeling that ND wanted to be way too clever with symbolic, metaphors and stuff...but more or less failed at getting this across good enough.
And in order to hide this stuff from clear sight, they go "pain, more pain, much more pain...everybody suffers and everything is dark and bad and painfull".

Not really worried about spoilers so some of the stuff i read feels like they might have added it just for the shock factor the way they did and not for the story or characters sake.
I personally love when especially in games, developers dare more, do unpredictable things...but it can easily backfire.

There is a reason why often you see very predictable storys in games or movies...because they are a safer thing.
Its cool that they threw seemingly a 180 with this game...but they shouldnt be surprised if it doesnt really sit well with people.
Its a tough thing giving people "Darker" and "deeper" material, especially in gaming...not everybody wants to face such things.

 

[Arachnerd]

Especially during recent times, though that's not as much on the game.

 

[Sithborg]

I just watched the final fight.

Spoiler

It's like watching two white trash meth addicts trying to kill each other. This is so ****ing nasty.

The fight doesnt even look good graphically.

And then it ends with Ellie no longer being able to play guitar.

For the love of god what the **** was Naughty Dog thinking... How the hell did Neil sell this toxic **** to the executives?

The Walking Dead backlash probably didn't fully start hitting till they were mid way in development. Based on what I've read, this is similar reactions to what has been going on with that series.

 

[jmc]

Something that legit keeps bugging me.

Spoiler

Abby's body frame doesn't make sense within the context of this world. When resources are suppose to be scarce and civilisation barely has access to even electricity there is no way in hell anyone can get their body that big under those conditions. You need a very specific diet and exercise program to get that large. There's literally no logical way for anyone, male or female, to get that big in this world where survival is key even if you benchpress daily. It just doesn't make sense even trying to justify it to me.

I bring this up because this is another issue I've seen in some recent franchises, the whole idea of it 'just being fantasy so I can do whatever I want'. From a literal perspective story is fantasy and you can do whatever you want, but you have to establish some set of rule that allow the world to feel believable. If anything is possible, then there's no rules, no structure, and no investment that the audience can make. 'It's just fantasy' is not an excuse if you've established the world in a certain way.

 

[jmc]

Apparently one of our local gaming retailers have stop doing trade-ins because they are overwhelmed with TLOU2 returns, lol.

 

[Gee]

It was obvious the E3 demo had a lot of scripted animation.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Something that legit keeps bugging me.

Spoiler

Abby's body frame doesn't make sense within the context of this world. When resources are suppose to be scarce and civilisation barely has access to even electricity there is no way in hell anyone can get their body that big under those conditions. You need a very specific diet and exercise program to get that large. There's literally no logical way for anyone, male or female, to get that big in this world where survival is key even if you benchpress daily. It just doesn't make sense even trying to justify it to me.

I bring this up because this is another issue I've seen in some recent franchises, the whole idea of it 'just being fantasy so I can do whatever I want'. From a literal perspective story is fantasy and you can do whatever you want, but you have to establish some set of rule that allow the world to feel believable. If anything is possible, then there's no rules, no structure, and no investment that the audience can make. 'It's just fantasy' is not an excuse if you've established the world in a certain way.

Did you play the game? It's explained there.

 

[jmc]

I'm watching the play throughs and know they've established reasons for how, but it still doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me within the context of that world. It's just another one of these things that makes it feel removed from the last game. I honestly think a lot of the creative decisions would have been forgivable if this weren't a sequel to TLOU. But it is what it is, I honestly don't know where things go from here if I'm honest for this franchise, if they go anywhere at all.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I'm watching the play throughs and know they've established reasons for how, but it still doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me within the context of that world. It's just another one of these things that makes it feel removed from the last game. I honestly think a lot of the creative decisions would have been forgivable if this weren't a sequel to TLOU. But it is what it is, I honestly don't know where things go from here if I'm honest for this franchise, if they go anywhere at all.

Didn't look like a stretch.

Spoiler

Having a stadium, gyms, food facilities and so on. WLF is clearly not the rag tags that Joel fights in the first game. And even then there were jacked guys. The world is slowly rebuilding itself.

The new game can be about Ellie recovering her love. Searching for Dina, contemplating and atoning her sins.