Iron Man 3 The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

[Lord]

About the twist



At this point i just don't like the idea many fanboys give about retconing things to make Trevor the true Mandarin or another guy coming and saying he's the true mandarin. For better or for worse Killian is the MCU Mandarin, freakin use him instead of making things more complicated.

 

[Nathan]

No, don't use him. Let him stay dead. The Mandarin came and went. He was just another Obadiah Stane and Ivan Vanko.

 

[Lord]

Why? When he supposedly died he had just survive a lot of attacks and what would have been an amazing fatality by Tony's part when he put him into his armor and exploded it. He's also Iron Man's main villain, and the character is a villain who can fight Tony on equal terms without having to be another man in armor.

There's also the fact that he created AIM, a company that according to rumors is going to still be used in the future films. And the MCU has more heroes than villains right now? Why kill him off just because some fans didn't like him?

With all the factors i think it would be very idiotic not to use him again, the MCU certainly need more villains and his "death" was barelly there.

 

[ferpuerto17]

did you guys see this? It is exactly what I thought of the movie and the mandarin twist

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Glad the movie is out on bluray now, so people can complain some more about the twist lol

 

[Doc Ock]

And watch the movie more too right?

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Well I like the twist, and love the movie, so yes.

 

[Lord]

As did millions of people, another reason why i find the idea of simply droping and forgeting Killian a very bad idea.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

It's a bit of a stretch, but I kinda want him to come back and be in the MOE.

 

[Adamantium]

In the deleted scenes, even though they are not technically "canon"

Spoiler

Maya Hansen uploads what appears to be all of A.I.M.'s data/files to STARK Industries.

So with that and the fact that they touched on Extremis in the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. pilot could it be that Killian could be part of the Rising Tide? Is this Rising Tide something from the comics or soley a Whedon creation? I thought they said that this show will tie in loosely with the MCU. So it must be connected somehow. I would also assume that the doctors in the show were some rogue doctors who worked for A.I.M. - either with Killian or Stark after he got their files. I would go more with the former because I would assume Tony would keep all of it to himself so it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands.

 

[Lord]

As far as i know the Rising Tide was created for the show, i think it would actually make sence for AIM and Killian himself to be behind some of the events in Agents of SHIELD, However the show was being written before Iron Man 3 came out, while i'm sure Joss Whedon had access to the script before the film was released, he probably had another villain already in mind.

As i watch the film more i'm less angry about the twist, the film itself was quite strong, and i'dd rather get Killian than no Mandarin at all as there's much you can do with him, and he could fight on an equal ground against most Avengers.

 

[metaphysician]

I'm still not at all certain that there is a Rising Tide beyond Skye. I *think* they were going for the idea that Skye was doing it all herself, with her elite hacking skills. I could be wrong, however.

 

[Lord]

I had that idea at first, but if i remember correctly they later referenced the organizations again, while i wouldn't mind them to be the villains, i would rather Hydra or AIM were behind the events.

 

[Destructus86]

I STILL loved the twist. But I can understand why people who really liked the Manderin would be pissed. I thought the character was the stupid in the comics, so the twist was totally fine with me.

 

[Chris B]

I guess my recollection of the events that went down in the final battle are a little sketchy as (due to my disappointment with the treatment to the Mandarin) I only viewed the movie one time. However, now that you mention it I do recall Killian surviving the exploding suit (guess I tried to block it out), so you may also be correct in assuming that he could survive a missle detonation. So, I guess we will see if he returns. If they do, I just hope that they change the way his extremis powers are portrayed to using more blasts from the hands (in place of his rings I suppose), because that whole breathing fire thing really bugged me. Also, I hope they get him away from the whole business man looking thing, and put him into something that makes him look more like a Warlord. They could even indicate that Trevor's version of the Mandarin was the concept of Killian who he himself has a love for the great conqueror's of the past, as he sees himself as one of them. Also, I would think if he returns it would be most likely in a Masters of Evil / Acts of Vengeance type format, and a more comic book type version of the character would seem to be more in place with the other villians (like Loki, Ultron, Abomination, and others) then a business man looking character. Ultimately if Killian survives, I would like to see him collect his rings from Trevor, Shoot blasts from just his hands (perhaps showing that he now has better control of his powers), and to wear a hood with some style of a robe, gown or perhaps even something else that pays homage to ancient warlords & conquerors. Then perhaps I could see Killian as the real Mandarin from the comics.

Surfer

PS. I know Mandarin has worn suits at times in the comics, but the whole business man thing is so boring & overdone, and it seems like they do that for almost every villain now a days that it does not do anything to identify him as a character. I mean Loki wore a suit for a while, Dr. Doom wore a suit for a while, the suit doesn't help to give the Mandarin his own look that he is really needing. Anyways that all I have to say for now.

That's my thinking as well. Have him become the caricature that he tried to create with Trevor. Also, someone had the idea that they could do something where he gets the rings by Killian inventing them himself, with them being powered by his Extremis energy. Which I think is a cool idea.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

I STILL loved the twist. But I can understand why people who really liked the Manderin would be pissed. I thought the character was the stupid in the comics, so the twist was totally fine with me.

A lot of the people that were upset probably liked the character. You didn't, which is why it doesn't bother you. Perhaps they did, which is why it bothered them.

Like the Superman thing, regarding the controversial ending to Man of Steel. I won't bother with spoilers, but some people hated it, some people loved it, and it was all because of their feelings on the character going into the movie. It's a change to a character. Some fans like it, some don't. It's that simple.

The problem I had with the twist wasn't just that they changed the character, but they promoted this menacing terrorist leader being portrayed by Ben Kingsley, heartlessly killing innocent people, yet they turned him into a joke. It's like telling your wife you're going to her favorite restaurant, but taking her to Burger King (unless that IS her favorite restaurant, but you get the point).

I very much would have preferred that Mandarin overseeing everything. However, I can understand the change, making him a more modern character. Personally I think the ultimate story of one man getting revenge on another man for not playing in his sandbox when they were younger was a bit simplistic. Having the terrorist leader running the organization that captured him and turned his life completely upside-down would have made for a more personal story with a complex background.

I could go on and on but I won't. Point is I think most people were upset with the fact that we had filet mignon dangled in our faces, but got a whopper.

 

[Robin91939]

I just wish that we got the lines:

"Ladies, children... sheep. Some people call me a terrorist... etc."

"Heroes, there is no such thing."

And I really, REALLY wish that we got a scene of Trevor Slattery in character as The Mandarin in a face-to-face scene with Iron Man or Tony Stark. Then we could have gotten some of those lines that were delivered so perfectly in the trailers...

"Mr. Stark. Today, is the first day of what's left of your life."

"I am offering you a choice. Do you want an empty life? Or a meaningful death?"


I like the film. I would have accepted the twist more if we got to see "The Mandarin" in a face-to-face with Tony Stark/Iron Man before we discovered the truth about Trevor and Killian.

Basically, I wish we got to see Slattery's Mandarin in character MORE than just in the terror videos. He was SO good. I just wanted more.

-R

 

[Nathan]

That, and don't play it for laughs. I don't mind the twist so much, just the execution. The whole let's turn it into one, big, drawn out joke.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

That, and don't play it for laughs. I don't mind the twist so much, just the execution. The whole let's turn it into one, big, drawn out joke.

Absolutely. A serious approach might have been a repetition of the (currently) same old twist, but might have been enjoyable.

 

[NHawk19]

you guys seem to want to turn Killian into Lobo. How much should it take to kill the guy?

 

[Lord]

Not much different from Loki. And Killian had already proved to be very difficult to kill when he survived the suit self-destruction, what would have been an amazing fatality, so him surviving another detonation when all we see is an explosions and then flames doesn't seem all that crazy an idea.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Plus, you know, Pearce makes for an awesome bad guy, so there's that.

 

[Ken-Kaniff]

I think only the hardcore Iron Man comic fans would be FULLY disappointed by The Mandarin. Personally, I've got mixed feelings. Ben Kingsley was awesome (If Ben Kingsley's character would have been the real deal, it would've been so amazing!!!!), but on the other hand, Pearce was really badass and I loved him in the movie!

So again, this is one thing I may not be so disappointed about, I wouldn't say they screwed up Mandarin, it was just... something different, a different approach. It could've been better, sure, but I'm not let down by what we've got.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

See, I'd be okay with hardcore Mandarin fans being angered by the twist. Really, I would. However, up until IM3, how many Mandarin fans, much less Iron Man (comic book) fans were there? I know Tony_Stark (the user on here) is a pro, he seems to know his stuff. I think Kedrell may have been a fan too, but other than that, I never heard anyone digging the Mandarin. Now yes, it is a slight disappointment that he turned out to be an actor, because Kingsley was really, really promising and menacing. But after that...what happens? Kingsley uses power rings to fight a much younger looking Stark? Meh. I really love what they did with the twist, and love it the more I think about it.

 

[metaphysician]

See, I'd be okay with hardcore Mandarin fans being angered by the twist. Really, I would. However, up until IM3, how many Mandarin fans, much less Iron Man (comic book) fans were there? I know Tony_Stark (the user on here) is a pro, he seems to know his stuff. I think Kedrell may have been a fan too, but other than that, I never heard anyone digging the Mandarin. Now yes, it is a slight disappointment that he turned out to be an actor, because Kingsley was really, really promising and menacing. But after that...what happens? Kingsley uses power rings to fight a much younger looking Stark? Meh. I really love what they did with the twist, and love it the more I think about it.

I know of another one, MichaelChen, who is a legitimate Mandarin fan ( having posted many times about the characters years before IM3 came out ).

His main contribution to the issue is a number of posts elaborating on why Killian is far closer to the comics Mandarin than the fake Mandarin was, in all ways save for a few relatively unimportant factors like national origin.