A Necessary Evil
One. Bad. Day.
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At least he was fun, unlike comic Mandarin 

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But you still monitoring this thread, despite its irrelevance.
As I've said, just because you try to present your subjectivity as a factual thing, it will not become a factual thing. You didn't gave me any legit reasons as to why you think Mandarin is "garbage", so I don't consider your opinion to be valid in this case.
By the way, Mandarin is still one of the best comic book villains ever created.
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Everyone unfamiliar with Mandarin needs to read your posts on the subject, 2002Spidey. They prove how much Marvel Studios failed with the character. While I have a moderate familiarity with Mandarin, you seem to have a greater wealth of knowledge that's illustrated my point (better than I could have) about the insult to Iron Man readers. Based on some of your scans, there are some worthwhile Mandarin stories that I need to track down.
I'm still bewildered as to why Marvel Studios, a name synonymous with action, discarded the prospects of Mandarin's martial arts skill and the plethora of unique abilities that his rings provide for a weak plot twist. The only acceptable way to rectify this is by eventually producing a more comic-accurate version of the character. Otherwise, Mandarin will continue to stand as one of Marvel Studios few mistakes, and perhaps the most glaring one.
I think some comic book fans refuse accept that some characters have become dated and Mandarin is a dated character in the worse way.
There is not much to the character beyond dated asethics and a thin characterization that often just revolves around being evil for evil's sake, he is one of the most prominent Chinese Marvel characters, unlike Ra's Al Ghul who is a villain who has redeeming aspects. That's kinda sad, there is not even a psotive Chinese characters
Even their rivalry seems dated and racist, Tony Stark represents western enlightened technological progress, while Mandarin represents backwards evil Eastern savagery and superstition. Not only is it offensive, its just dated, no one sees China like that anymore.
It seems like Obadiah Stane and Zeke Stane have hurt Stark more personally then Mandarin ever did.
People say he is Iron man's arch nemesis, but what has he done to earn that title? His connection with Iron Mans origin was a retcon, that now seems to be retconned away, unless you point me to a story that connections Mandarin with Iron Man's new Afghanistan based origin.
The character's personality changes all the time, he is a mad scientist one story and then he hates technology in another, so which one is the real Mandarin?
People say Mandarin is a great character, but all he is an dated archetype, everything about him is surface stuff, he is some kung fu mad scientist wizard or whatever, but what's his deeper personality?
Edit: Plus does anyone think Marvel would risk access to the Chinese market to please a few Mandarin fanboys? I think the Mandarin is a no go for the Chinese market.
What you've written here still stems from the fact that you don't like Mandarin as a character. That's an invalid argument. I've always thought Doc Ock was a poorly constructed, overrated character, but I never once questioned that he would be connected to Spidey's live action franchise. I could give all of the reasons why I don't care for the character, but it doesn't change his place as Spidey's #2 nemesis, or perhaps #1A. Had he been omitted over the course of 5 Spidey films or altered in such a way as to make him virtually unidentifiable to his fans, I would certainly understand their outrage.
Also, the "risking the Chinese" market argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There are about 1,000 ways to write a character to avoid any culturally problematic overtones. Marvel Studios could have come up with a scenario where Iron Man was aiding the Chinese government when Mandarin became particularly problematic for them, or some scenario that put the focus on a personal issue between the two men. Yet they wussed out, and they've even backhandedly admitted that they screwed up by making "All Hail the King." Yet it's clearly not enough as hardcore Iron Man fans continue to be upset ( you should read several pages back for 2002Spidey's testament for Mandarin's place in the IM books ) and are demanding that an accurate version of the character be produced.
Why is he Iron Man's arch enemy? Back in the Silver Age the government sent Iron Man to spy on hom and then they just became enemies. What if the government sent Cap instead?
I think some comic book fans refuse accept that some characters have become dated
and Mandarin is a
There is not much to the character beyond
thin characterization that often just revolves around being evil for evil's sake
he is one of the most prominent Chinese Marvel characters
unlike Ra's Al Ghul who is a villain who has redeeming aspects.
That's kinda sad, there is not even a psotive Chinese characters
Even their rivalry seems dated and racist
Tony Stark represents western enlightened technological progress, while Mandarin represents backwards evil Eastern savagery and superstition.
Not only it's offensive, its just dated, no one sees China like that anymore.
It seems like Obadiah Stane and Zeke Stane have hurt Stark more personally then Mandarin ever did.
People say he is Iron man's arch nemesis
but what has he done to earn that title?
His connection with Iron Mans origin was a retcon,
that now seems to be retconned away, unless you point me to a story that connections Mandarin with Iron Man's new Afghanistan based origin.
The character's personality changes all the time
he is a mad scientist one story and then he hates technology in another, so which one is the real Mandarin?
People say Mandarin is a great character
but all he is an
everything about him is
he is some kung fu mad scientist wizard or whatever, but what's his deeper personality?
Edit: Plus does anyone think Marvel would risk access to the Chinese market to please a few Mandarin fanboys? I think the Mandarin is a no go for the Chinese market.
Dr. Octopus is not considered a racial caricature though.
I would probably be more likely to defend the Mandarin, if
but all his defenders do is present him as an archetype, not a character.
He is all surface stuff anything else changes writer to writer. What is compelling sbout his personality?
Why is he Iron Man's arch enemy? Back in the Silver Age the government sent Iron Man to spy on hom and then they just became enemies.
What if the government sent Cap instead?
Every adaption into other media changed him into a different guy,
can you blame ths movie for changing him again
when he always changes in adaptions?
Neither is Mandarin. At least among the people who know the difference between a caricature and an accumulative personage that represents certain cultural elements. Also, I always wanted to tell this question to Iron Man 3 apologists that always slam Mandarin and call him racist caricature.
Are you excited for the unpocming Luke Cage TV-show? You do know that Luke Cage comics are the most definitive source when it comes to racial generalization and stereotyping. You do know that the foundation of Luke Cage comics were orthodox racial stereotypes that were created during the rise of blacksplotation era. I mean, the guy was a crook, he went to prison, he became hero for hire, and one of his greatest enemies is a fat black woman whose name is Black Mariah. He was a pretty stereotypical character if you look at him from today’s standards. His villains though… That’s the real subject for a debate about racism. The black guy with reptilian eyes and crocodile’s teeth, whose name is Cottonmouth, and who dresses up like he just came from a Snoop Dog video. Fat black woman with high-pitched voice called Black Mariah. A black guy who loves killing his enemies with a knife. Where is your rant about that, hypocrite?
Where is your rant on early comics with Batman in which he was portrayed as a pedophile and a creep that sleeps in a same bed with a teenage boy?
If you weren't salty apologist who always attacks people because they like character that you hate?
Name me one thing in my comments that present him as an archetype, liar. I think my description of his personage was very compelling and interesting.
I don't like to repeat my previous comments, but since you constantly repeat your own points, here's my answer: "He's an individual anarchist who personifies in some way a morally bastardized version of Tony Stark, and in some way he represents ideas of individual anarchism and anti-collectivism."
And why were Joker and Batman enemies back in the day, before The Killing Joke and Dennis O'Neil run? From what I can remember, Joker and Batman were just a two crazy guys that had problems with their *****...
That's like saying what if Lex Luthor was arch-enemy of Batman, since they both have a lot in common.
That's probably why he never worked properly anywhere outside the comics. Maybe because of that people will finally realize that maybe Mandarin should be done according to comics, instead of being something else.
I blame creatively impotent filmmakers for the fact that they made a mediocre film that insults everything that is great about Iron Man.
Yeah, and did Mandarin fans like any of those changes that happened? I personally didn't. Because they can't get him right in adaptations, because they always try to change him, is a proof that Mandarin should be made according to his comic book counterpart.
.Yeah and have you seen how they have changed those villains for the TV show, Netflix Mariah and Cottonmouth don't look like that at all
All this proves is Mandarin would need a massive revamp to work on screen, if these are the examples you are going to use.
Also the Luke Cage comics would have some positive African American examples in them, does the Iron Man comic have a reoccurring positive Chinese character?
Do you really think a "true to the comics" Mandarin as the villain, would have been accepted by Chinese censors?
Marvel is not going to cut itself off from a major movie market to please some fanboys.
I think when fanboys demand nothing be changed from the comics when adapting something to the big screen, they don't understand that a lot of elements from the comics have become dated, some horribly dated and need to be changed.
That is what they are doing with the Luke Cage show and guess what if Mandarin ever appears n films, he will likely have to changed to fit more modern times as well.
mandarin ahs not aged well, he seems like an outdated stereotype at this point, he doesn't even reflect anything about the modern Chinese/American relationlation, he just seems like a villain from a Sax Rohmer novel.
I think its best to debate the arguments, rather then insult other posters, I think that is against the rules.
Maybe you shouldn't resort to name calling. Also I personally did not find your descriptions of the Mandarin compelling.
But I think that is an an archetype, because it lacks greater depth.
Also he is not always written that way.
It seems like there are character traits that just appear and disappear
some stories seem to mention a sense of honor he has. Okay, so this honor a code of ethics he lives by or is a twisted sense of honor that makes him seem more horrific rather then noble? Because the writers do not do a good job with explaining Mandarin's code of honor in a meaningful and consistent way.
In one story, he regrets not spending more time with his son, but the next writer did nothing with that, why not develop his relationship with son?
I at least understand Red Skull's relationship with his daugther, its abusive and makes the Skull into an even bigger bastard, so why not develop Mandarin's relationship with son and use it tell me something new about character?
Mandarin has a son and barely interacts with him, that is a huge waste because it would explore the character outside of the usual cliched villainy that seems to inform everything he does.
You said Mandarin was Iron Man's arch nemesis because Byrne shoe horned him into Iron Man's origin
so does the fact that Ellis took him out of Iron Man's new origin means no longer has that title? That's the problem with trying to use retcons to make a villain into a arch enemy, someone else can retcon those retcons away. Without that, Mandarin has very little claim to that title, Obadiah and Zeke Stane did more to hurt Tony personally then Mandarin did.
Except Joker and Lex do have better stories then the Mandarin
that establish why they are good arch enemies for their chosen heroes.
Sure Joker is not great if you take away the O'Neil or Moore stories, but those stories are why he is a great character and Mandarin doesn't have the some depth of classic stories as the other villains you mentioned.
Purple Man was a nothing character till Alias and became one of the best MCU villains in Jessica Jones. So yes, bad characters can become better later on, but good writers need to revamp them and other writers need to build on it.
The run that revamped Iron Man back in the late 70s and early 80s, barely featured the Mandarin.
When you think of the best Iron Man stories
I think there has only been one truly great Mandarin story, but he borrowed a lot from Ra's Al Ghul and the next writer ignored it.
I think Mandarin being a racial stereotype and an archetype is why he is always changed for adaptions
when you are aiming something at a wider audience, there are boarder concerns, then you are aiming something at a niche audience.
LOL still saddened by this I see
Has someone asked for your opinion? I mean, nobody forces you to read any of these threads. We get it. You hate comics, you hate Mandarin, you hate comic book enthusiasts that are very dedicated to their favorite characters from the comics. You would know by now that this thread is filled with people that love Mandarin.... So why you keep coming back? You don't like us, and we don't like you. We get it.
I think we can all agree Iron Man has a flat out awful rogues gallery filled with villains no one knows or cares about.
Has someone asked for your opinion? I mean, nobody forces you to read any of these threads. We get it. You hate comics, you hate Mandarin, you hate comic book enthusiasts that are very dedicated to their favorite characters from the comics. You would know by now that this thread is filled with people that love Mandarin.... So why you keep coming back? You don't like us, and we don't like you. We get it.
Also Marvel apparently tried to do a comic book Mandarin in the first film and it just wasn't working, maybe that character doesn't work on the Silver Screen.
I don't recall saying I hate comics?
Or Comic Enthusiasts?
Also it seems like this thread is filled with mixed responses, but now is filling up due to your essay long responses to a movie people have long since gotten over lol.
You don't like me though?
I can visit whatever thread I want
and the Mandarin still sucks ass.
I have no desire to respond to the giant wall of text you posted, unless you I can start billing you for my time, but I think this is why your arguments have been problematic
people have been criticized the character
and you have engage in personal attacks
of these things is allowed by the rules, the other isn't. Also getting upset over someone criticizing a fictional character is such a first world problem its ridiculous, there are far more important things to get upset about.
Anyway, I think you have realize is different people have different opinions on comic characters and I think Mandarin is a divisive character, whether you like or not.
Shane Black clearly thought he was a racial stereotype
and you can complain about that all you want
but it is a common perception about the character and I think there is some truth to it.
Shane Black is a director who has done good work
so I don't think you an dismiss his opinion out of hand
a lot of directors would have the same issues.
Also Marvel apparently tried to do a comic book Mandarin in the first film and it just wasn't working, maybe that character doesn't work on the Silver Screen.
I think we can all agree
Iron Man has a flat out awful rogues gallery filled with villains no one knows or cares about.
mandarin "sucks ass" in every other form of medium. That is correct.